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One of my observations is a clear area where the game has been improved, either from 3.0 to 3.5, or 3.5 SRD to Pathfinder, is the removal of fixed DC skill checks to scaled effects. In the SRD, these fixed skill checks are often challenging at a certain play level, but become redundant at higher levels, causing portions of the game’s structure to be cumbersome. A prime example is the original Tumble DC of 15 to go past an enemy – a challenge at 1st level, but an annoyance to roll at 15th. Pathfinder clearly fixed that by making Acrobatics checks DC 15 + the opponent’s base attack bonus, but that improvement should be taken across the board to address a number of skills…
Diplomacy – Diplomacy monkeys often dominate the game at higher levels, with automatic successes. For example, a DC 25 to adjust a Hostile creature is simplicity at higher levels. While I like the adjustments to Diplomacy for Pathfinder, there should be some scaling here. Perhaps +1 per HD to the DC?
Heal – I am thrilled that Treat Deadly Wounds has been added to Heal, but DC 20 is hard at low levels, and simplicity at higher levels, making the ‘window’ for this effect limited to 4th to 8th level.
Spellcraft – Casting defensively under the old Concentration skill becomes far too easy at high levels, and becomes ludicrous. I’ve had squads of spined devils laugh at using their SLAs with ridiculously high skill bonuses. I believe that Spellcraft now needs to scale up, being a check that includes opponents BAB, just like Acrobatics.
Director of Games
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Although I am all for scaling DCs where appropriate, I think there is an important point to remember here.
High level characters should be able to do some mundane, skill related tasks with ease. Although it is hard for a low level character to treat deadly wounds, a character with a lot of ranks in Heal is like a surgeon and can make such checks with ease. That is fine in my book. Not everything needs to be incredibly hard at all levels.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
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Although I am all for scaling DCs where appropriate, I think there is an important point to remember here.
High level characters should be able to do some mundane, skill related tasks with ease. Although it is hard for a low level character to treat deadly wounds, a character with a lot of ranks in Heal is like a surgeon and can make such checks with ease. That is fine in my book. Not everything needs to be incredibly hard at all levels.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
i agree
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Although I am all for scaling DCs where appropriate, I think there is an important point to remember here.
High level characters should be able to do some mundane, skill related tasks with ease. Although it is hard for a low level character to treat deadly wounds, a character with a lot of ranks in Heal is like a surgeon and can make such checks with ease. That is fine in my book. Not everything needs to be incredibly hard at all levels.
I don't disagree with this, but tasks an adventuring party are likely to attempt on an ongoing basis should be scaled, as the challenges and items and monsters get tougher. Some DCs scale now (and that's great) but others don't. Ordering eggs or dealing with 5 hp of damage should not scale, identifying a dimensional shambler or tumbling past Al'hazad the Master Thief should.
With all due respect, with regard to treat deadly wounds, the effect is fixed against a scalar value, hitpoints. While certainly a fixed DC should represent a fixed result, like crafting a masterwork longsword, in the case of this use of the Heal skill, it might be reasonable to have a scalar DC provide a scalar effect.
Or not, if the design intent is for TDW to be used with individuals who are lacking the numbers of hitpoints that someone who can trivially pass the DC would have. However, if this is the intent, then the cost of use should be brought down to be closer in line with the fixed effect. If a lower level adept with brew potion can beat TDW, then it is only an NPC option when magic is completely unavailable.
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Although I am all for scaling DCs where appropriate, I think there is an important point to remember here.
High level characters should be able to do some mundane, skill related tasks with ease. Although it is hard for a low level character to treat deadly wounds, a character with a lot of ranks in Heal is like a surgeon and can make such checks with ease. That is fine in my book. Not everything needs to be incredibly hard at all levels.
Healing a certain number of hit points should be a constant DC. Healing a scaling number of hitpoint should have a scaling DC.
Anything that involves an opponent should use a component of that opponent's skill in resisting you as part of the skill DC. Anything where the task itself doesn't change as you increase in level should have a constant DC.
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One of my observations is a clear area where the game has been improved, either from 3.0 to 3.5, or 3.5 SRD to Pathfinder, is the removal of fixed DC skill checks to scaled effects. In the SRD, these fixed skill checks are often challenging at a certain play level, but become redundant at higher levels, causing portions of the game’s structure to be cumbersome. A prime example is the original Tumble DC of 15 to go past an enemy – a challenge at 1st level, but an annoyance to roll at 15th. Pathfinder clearly fixed that by making Acrobatics checks DC 15 + the opponent’s base attack bonus, but that improvement should be taken across the board to address a number of skills…
Diplomacy – Diplomacy monkeys often dominate the game at higher levels, with automatic successes. For example, a DC 25 to adjust a Hostile creature is simplicity at higher levels. While I like the adjustments to Diplomacy for Pathfinder, there should be some scaling here. Perhaps +1 per HD to the DC?
Heal – I am thrilled that Treat Deadly Wounds has been added to Heal, but DC 20 is hard at low levels, and simplicity at higher levels, making the ‘window’ for this effect limited to 4th to 8th level.
Spellcraft – Casting defensively under the old Concentration skill becomes far too easy at high levels, and becomes ludicrous. I’ve had squads of spined devils laugh at using their SLAs with ridiculously high skill bonuses. I believe that Spellcraft now needs to scale up, being a check that includes opponents BAB, just like Acrobatics.
I disagree I feel at higher level some stuff becomes a bother like having to roll to tumble or casting defensively. At earlier levels it's ok to have it difficult but after a certain a level I don't think I should bother picking up the dice for it. In the case Tumble sure one can get a +14 to the check but there are times when you want to tumble past the person and thus need +24 (or +26 for larger creatures). Not to mention if I want to accelerate tumble which is -10.
I just feel that adding bab to the tumble dc should a feat.
Although I am all for scaling DCs where appropriate, I think there is an important point to remember here.
High level characters should be able to do some mundane, skill related tasks with ease. Although it is hard for a low level character to treat deadly wounds, a character with a lot of ranks in Heal is like a surgeon and can make such checks with ease. That is fine in my book. Not everything needs to be incredibly hard at all levels.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
I also agree, however the OP does has a point and I would like to see scaling DC's expanded into some other Skills
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I also agree, however the OP does has a point and I would like to see scaling DC's expanded into some other SkillsAlthough I am all for scaling DCs where appropriate, I think there is an important point to remember here.
High level characters should be able to do some mundane, skill related tasks with ease. Although it is hard for a low level character to treat deadly wounds, a character with a lot of ranks in Heal is like a surgeon and can make such checks with ease. That is fine in my book. Not everything needs to be incredibly hard at all levels.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Agreed completely.
Jess Door made a good point with regards to the healing; scale the DC if it's scaling the amount healed.
Casting defensively, and tumbling should without a doubt scale with the ability of the opponent; as should anything that is in relative resistance to another.
Robert