Oh, I felt bad for a few seconds when we splattered our 2nd or 3rd group of Emporer's men. It's not like we did'nt warn them, twice even for the ones still standing on the 2nd round of initiative. That Captain with that last group will need dental records to identify his remains, assuming the teeth are still intact. Nothing like a crit with a thrown Adamantine Earthbreaker.
Blood Pig, what a wonderful game this is! It reminded me of Blood Bowl and I really wish "Spiked Armor" had been a consideration of mine. Sadly I'm Celestial and must play/look the part even in Blood Pig. *sigh* I DO NOT have Improved Bullrush and I was taking AoO's everytime I shoulderblocked someone, but I was 80-90% successful everytime. I think I have one of the higher AC's in the party atm, which made it difficult for them to hit me, not to mention a few poor rolls. I played point for the Orc best I could as he did his best to catch the rebounds(respawns) of pigs and/or just grab them right out of their hands via disarm. Once I saw we were getting a lead I also gave the enemy team their only point by firing off a Rainbow Blast(multi-energy lightning bolt) down most of their team. Yea, yea a tad unsportsman-like, but if the Orc was going to be "Shaq", someone had to be the bad boy that racks up the penalty points!
Confusion... yea, that sucks. Without Fate Points, I would be contemplating a new character right about now and it wasn't even due to the difficulty of a monster or the module, it was our own party and poor positioning. I got upset, most player's do, I got over it.
Rolth, yea... that'll teach him to mess with/hurt my friends and teleport away like a pansy 2 times prior.
Also scoring the last three points via firelinging the pig from spawn point to the hole was probably not how the game was intended to be played, but when you had three people at the top of the initiative who could hold their ground at the goal it was a thing of beauty.
This was really the orc's session to shine and I was happy to see him having such a good time. If you knew the player you would understand that this is one of those times when the synergy of character and player is beyond perfect.
As too the overhand chop tree, while it is true that the orc is running around with 2 more strength points than was strictly intended by design of the base races. The score he has is theoretically not unattainable at our level. I believe he put his only 18 in strength then with a +4 for orcishness, and a +2 item bonus he walks around at a 24 strength...Sure once he rages the whole thing gets even nastier, but I think the feat tree is at the heart of the dramatic uptic in damage we have seen. He gets two full attacks at full BAB, with his full strenght damage brought too bear on a two handed weapon. Splash in a little power attack and it gets very grim for the enemy ( and in some cases his party)
Well, overhand chop is bad - true - but it's only a standard action.
Now, for cheese on wheels, you get backswing, which essentially let's you do double str dam with the first strike and regular x1.5 dam with the subsequent strikes. Once your orc hits level 11...it's over. x3 str with first attack!
Devastating blow is also pretty ridiculous - especially if you fight with a high crit weapon. Once you stack overhand chop with devastating blow...fighters will be able to move and kill. Move and kill.
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I believe our orc has backswing as well and has used it to its horrifying ugliness.
Cesare, would you do me a favor and use spoiler tags? My party has not had the pleasure of meeting more than Glorio Arkona to this point and while they know that there are more than just him and that they could, if they wished, attack said house, I would rather not have them know to much more than that at this time. Thanks.
Also scoring the last three points via firelining the pig from spawn point to the hole was probably not how the game was intended to be played, but when you had three people at the top of the initiative who could hold their ground at the goal it was a thing of beauty.
I thought the firelining a bit cheap honestly, but we weren't told otherwise. There should most likely be a reset inbetween scores back to the line of scrimmage. That would at least give the opposing team a "fair" chance to get the pig.
Or perhaps raising the amount of points, Total req.= 10, Score = 2 pts., Rebound Score = 1 pt.(like a field goal), then reset to center with a new initiative.
The bad guys should definitely start with "spiked leather armor" for bullrushes! They could use a few more options than what they brought to the game.
logically speaking I thought it should start in the oposite end from the last team that scored, for two reasons...its more similar to footbal, and it puts the team that just scored at a slight disadvantage having to advance the ball all the way back down.
The way it was the first score was a serious advantage as we were always playing in there end.
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I did a fair amount of research and study of Blood Pig. Here, for example, is a classic line from a mr...*checks notes* oh yea...
Blood Pig isn't supposed to be fair, or even all that well thought out; it was created by a lunatic, after all!
I find it to be quite fitting...
As to where the Pig starts, in many other people's experience the game was abused by having it pop up in the far end of the field, by similar situations as what we had, though for opposite reasons. Imagine, if you will, that the bad guys were running amok, as our friend the Orc was, as they would have if it were not for the Amazing Blood Pig natural ability of an Orc Barbarian as well as the astounding abilities of the Sorcerer to consistantly roll above a 15 on his Bull rush attempts. If, instead of pounding the snot out of them, you were the one having the snot pounded out of, the pig popping up on the other side of the field would actually benefit those who could use AOO's and if they had been the ones going crazy on the CMB checks, it would have been far worse than it wound up being.
What I saw on the Blood Pig board was that ultimately unless you have two fairly balanced teams, one team runs the other off of the field. This day was yours, it was a great time, the good guys one, score one for the good guys, Here is your bloody stumpy pig trophy... ;)
Imagine, if you will, that the bad guys were running amok, as our friend the Orc was, as they would have if it were not for the Amazing Blood Pig natural ability of an Orc Barbarian as well as the astounding abilities of the Sorcerer to consistantly roll above a 15 on his Bull rush attempts. If, instead of pounding the snot out of them, you were the one having the snot pounded out of...
While it's nice, I'm not entirely sold on the "If you have an ORC, you WIN" theory. Krim could just as easily been a HUMAN with '2' less STR and a lot better 'mental stats'. So while 'raging' does it really REALLY matter if the STR is a 28 or a 30... 30 or 32? I'm thinking no, not really.
A HUMAN focused on STR as a Barbarian would be just as big of a threat to your 'run-of-the-mill bad guys', especially ones who seem to be more focused on 'manuvers' rather than just raw STR beatings.
Imagine how bad it would be if we weren't house-ruling the CMB to add DEX as well as STR. Now that would be a beating unlike no other. I still say that they would benefit a ton from Spiked Armor, not to mention just been way more intimidating.
ALSO... I guarantee you, if the party were starting to lose Blood Pig, by their rules, in an obviously hostile situation. You can kiss the rules good bye and say hello to full on combat. From what I've seen in the past, we as a group don't take well to being "set-up" for failure, common sense just won't allow it! Chaotic Good players RAWR!
*puts Bloody Stumpy Pig Trophy on the mantle at the house*
*Admires the Bloody Stumpy Pig Trophy on the mantle while resting in his comfy chair*
Dr. Davalus having been brought up again in discussion between Brutesquad07 and I. I decided to post a few Peter Lorre pictures, in reference to how he portraited him. The first two fit the bill exceptionally well! Enjoy!
<insert voice track of sinister mad scientist here>
*Aids Altair's "perception" check and points to the Yahoo Group*
Thank you my friend...I am afraid I could not pry myself away from other *ahem* entanglements to handle this all properly.
Damn fine pig stump you have there bye the way......damn fine.
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Well, overhand chop is bad - true - but it's only a standard action.
Now, for cheese on wheels, you get backswing, which essentially let's you do double str dam with the first strike and regular x1.5 dam with the subsequent strikes. Once your orc hits level 11...it's over. x3 str with first attack!
Devastating blow is also pretty ridiculous - especially if you fight with a high crit weapon. Once you stack overhand chop with devastating blow...fighters will be able to move and kill. Move and kill.
** spoiler omitted **
Hmmm... can you use those two in the same round? I mean, don't Overhand Chop and Devastating Blow both say "As a standard action..." and not "As part of an attack action...", which would imply it's an either/or-type of situation?
That's how I read them working.
I did a fair amount of research and study of Blood Pig. Here, for example, is a classic line from a mr...*checks notes* oh yea...
Blood Pig isn't supposed to be fair, or even all that well thought out; it was created by a lunatic, after all!
I find it to be quite fitting...
As to where the Pig starts, in many other people's experience the game was abused by having it pop up in the far end of the field, by similar situations as what we had, though for opposite reasons. Imagine, if you will, that the bad guys were running amok, as our friend the Orc was, as they would have if it were not for the Amazing Blood Pig natural ability of an Orc Barbarian as well as the astounding abilities of the Sorcerer to consistantly roll above a 15 on his Bull rush attempts. If, instead of pounding the snot out of them, you were the one having the snot pounded out of, the pig popping up on the other side of the field would actually benefit those who could use AOO's and if they had been the ones going crazy on the CMB checks, it would have been far worse than it wound up being.
What I saw on the Blood Pig board was that ultimately unless you have two fairly balanced teams, one team runs the other off of the field. This day was yours, it was a great time, the good guys one, score one for the good guys, Here is your bloody stumpy pig trophy... ;)
I thought I posted this awhile ago (like a week ago - thanks post monster)... But after running this it sounds like things might have actually been more balanced with the original PFRPG CMB rules instead of your house rules. Would you agree (good rolls withstanding obviously lol)?
I thought I posted this awhile ago (like a week ago - thanks post monster)... But after running this it sounds like things might have actually been more balanced with the original PFRPG CMB rules instead of your house rules. Would you agree (good rolls withstanding obviously lol)?I did a fair amount of research and study of Blood Pig. Here, for example, is a classic line from a mr...*checks notes* oh yea...
Blood Pig isn't supposed to be fair, or even all that well thought out; it was created by a lunatic, after all!
I find it to be quite fitting...
As to where the Pig starts, in many other people's experience the game was abused by having it pop up in the far end of the field, by similar situations as what we had, though for opposite reasons. Imagine, if you will, that the bad guys were running amok, as our friend the Orc was, as they would have if it were not for the Amazing Blood Pig natural ability of an Orc Barbarian as well as the astounding abilities of the Sorcerer to consistantly roll above a 15 on his Bull rush attempts. If, instead of pounding the snot out of them, you were the one having the snot pounded out of, the pig popping up on the other side of the field would actually benefit those who could use AOO's and if they had been the ones going crazy on the CMB checks, it would have been far worse than it wound up being.
What I saw on the Blood Pig board was that ultimately unless you have two fairly balanced teams, one team runs the other off of the field. This day was yours, it was a great time, the good guys one, score one for the good guys, Here is your bloody stumpy pig trophy... ;)
Not really it would have been worse...the guy with the huge strength clearly ruled the day by a staggering margin. Our rules just made the rest of us a little bit more useful ( sorcerer rolling 20's not withstanding), and actually made the enemy marginally so as well. It was balanced by the fact that the target number is higher, and created parity between dexterity and strenght when it comes to maneuvers. So far I am very in favor of Brutes tweek to CMB. I would however entertain the concept of a straight up apposed roll CMB vs CMB. Sure its not in line with the basic mechanic of d20, being roll vs target number, but I think it would be the most realistic and fair. I would still keep Brutes Dex+Str+BaB however.
Well, overhand chop is bad - true - but it's only a standard action.
Now, for cheese on wheels, you get backswing, which essentially let's you do double str dam with the first strike and regular x1.5 dam with the subsequent strikes. Once your orc hits level 11...it's over. x3 str with first attack!
Devastating blow is also pretty ridiculous - especially if you fight with a high crit weapon. Once you stack overhand chop with devastating blow...fighters will be able to move and kill. Move and kill.
** spoiler omitted **
Hmmm... can you use those two in the same round? I mean, don't Overhand Chop and Devastating Blow both say "As a standard action..." and not "As part of an attack action...", which would imply it's an either/or-type of situation?
That's how I read them working.
I am uncertain about this but I would imagine you can, arent they part of the same tree?
If you couldnt that would be like saying you cannot power attack on a cleave...I am pretty sure that is the point of a feat tree, that you build on previous skills.
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Well, overhand chop is bad - true - but it's only a standard action.
Now, for cheese on wheels, you get backswing, which essentially let's you do double str dam with the first strike and regular x1.5 dam with the subsequent strikes. Once your orc hits level 11...it's over. x3 str with first attack!
Devastating blow is also pretty ridiculous - especially if you fight with a high crit weapon. Once you stack overhand chop with devastating blow...fighters will be able to move and kill. Move and kill.
** spoiler omitted **
Hmmm... can you use those two in the same round? I mean, don't Overhand Chop and Devastating Blow both say "As a standard action..." and not "As part of an attack action...", which would imply it's an either/or-type of situation?
That's how I read them working.
I am uncertain about this but I would imagine you can, arent they part of the same tree?
If you couldnt that would be like saying you cannot power attack on a cleave...I am pretty sure that is the point of a feat tree, that you build on previous skills.
But they're pretty explicitly defined as "As a standard/full round action..." instead of "As part of a standard/full round action"; Power Attack works differently, because it's not worded as using either type of action by itself.
I guess the intention was that each of them has a different tactical advantage, even the ones belonging to the same tree? For example, you could use Overhand Chop as you move into melee, and Backswing or Vital Strike or Great Cleave or Devastating Blow the next round (for example, Devastating Blow or Vital Strike might be the best option against high-AC opponents).
That's how I read it. I do hope that this matter will be clarified in the final rules.
I am uncertain about this but I would imagine you can, arent they part of the same tree?
If you couldnt that would be like saying you cannot power attack on a cleave...I am pretty sure that is the point of a feat tree, that you build on previous skills.
They are mutually exclusive as it stands. Feat trees build upon previous skills but that doesn't mean that the effects are cumulative or usable in combination. Look at whirlwind attack or unarmed strike tree for examples. Whirlwind attack doesn't allow you rush in a few squares do an attack against all targets and then move out a couple of more squares even though it has a prereq of spring attack. Same thing with medusa's wrath, it has gorgon's fist as a prereq but one is a full round action and the other is a standard action. The prereq does set up the the opponent for the end of the tree though.
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The CMB thing, The Orc would have owned those guys with the Beta rules. Here is why. While they would gain 5 points for using 15+ over 10+ they would have lost their Dex, a net loss of 3. Looks good for them doesn't it. However, let's look at it from their side. The DC would have risen By the 5 points, but it would have not come down by removing dex by much if any.
My Rules Orc CMB = +17
Beta Rules CMB = +15
My Baddies CMB = +9
Beta Rules CMB = +6
My Rules Orc's DC to Grapple/Trip/Disarm: 27 (Baddies CMB +9) = 18+
Beta Rules Orc's DC to Grapple/Trip/Disarm: 30 (Baddies CMB +6) = 24+
My Rules Baddies DC to Grapple/Trip/Disarm: 19 (Orc's CMB +17) = 2+
Beta Rules Baddies DC to Grapple/Trip/Disarm: 21(Orc's CMB +15) = 6+
Now the glarring answer is that the Orc just has a beater strength. He can put a sleeper hold on them from across the room with that kind of strength, which just goes to show how valuable Strength is in 3.x and PF...
But let's not compare just the beater of an Orc to Peanuts here (or Peanut butter in the case of these bad guys after the Orc got done) Lets look at our Sorcerer's CMB situation with my rules...
Devereux, feel free to fix my math, as I don't even have a rule book here with me, and while I had the Orc and Bad guy stats on my computer, I don't have yours...
My Rules Sorcerer CMB = +10
Beta CMB = +5
My Rules Sorcerer DC to Grapple/etc: 20 (Baddies CMB +9) = 11+
Beta Sorcerer DC to Grapple/etc: 20 (Baddies CMB +6) = 14+
My Rules Baddies DC to Grapple/Trip/Disarm: 19 (Sorc's CMB +10) = 9+
Beta Rules Baddies DC to Grapple/Trip/Disarm: 21(Sorc's CMB +5) = 16+
You'll notice that Mooks (which is all these were let's not kid ourselves) Have very little swing, because they were built with the elite array, which is certainly not very elite compared to PC's who rolled well and could fill a couple of really good scores into their physicals.
I ran numerous comparisons of CMB's when I chose to go 10+cmb that includes Dex. The thing I noticed about the Str+dex vs just Str is that:
1) it rewards Balanced characters NPC or PC...
2) it tends to, normally, show a curve that resembled the success rate that I was used to at maneuvers.
3) it made sense to everyone who I showed it to and when they helped test it, it seemed to have more of the feel of the old system with less of the confusion.
Now, we did agree that to truly make it fair and to truly make it feel the same it would be better to have opposed rolls, but at the same time, opposed rolls were the one thing that I saw again and again catcalled, and I suppose I understand why. So if we aren't going to use opposed rolls, then I advocate for adding dex in...
Lets look at our Sorcerer's CMB situation with my rules... Devereux, feel free to fix my math, as I don't even have a rule book here with me, and while I had the Orc and Bad guy stats on my computer, I don't have yours...
My Rules Sorcerer CMB = +10
Beta CMB = +5My Rules Sorcerer DC to Grapple/etc: 20 (Baddies CMB +9) = 11+
Beta Sorcerer DC to Grapple/etc: 20 (Baddies CMB +6) = 14+My Rules Baddies DC to Grapple/Trip/Disarm: 19 (Sorc's CMB +10) = 9+
Beta Rules Baddies DC to Grapple/Trip/Disarm: 21(Sorc's CMB +5) = 16+
*wanders in and looks at the piece of paper on the table*
Wow! I have a 14 STR, 20 DEX, +3 BAB for a total +10 CMB! Wait, what's this... only 56 Health?!
*reaches for a pencil with an eraser*
(( LOL, Your figures are correct. And yes, CMB with STR+DEX+10 is extremely more fair than STR+15, especially to Monks, Rogues and Dex Fighters trying to use manuvers.))
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Lets look at our Sorcerer's CMB situation with my rules... Devereux, feel free to fix my math, as I don't even have a rule book here with me, and while I had the Orc and Bad guy stats on my computer, I don't have yours...
My Rules Sorcerer CMB = +10
Beta CMB = +5My Rules Sorcerer DC to Grapple/etc: 20 (Baddies CMB +9) = 11+
Beta Sorcerer DC to Grapple/etc: 20 (Baddies CMB +6) = 14+My Rules Baddies DC to Grapple/Trip/Disarm: 19 (Sorc's CMB +10) = 9+
Beta Rules Baddies DC to Grapple/Trip/Disarm: 21(Sorc's CMB +5) = 16+*wanders in and looks at the piece of paper on the table*
Wow! I have a 14 STR, 20 DEX, +3 BAB for a total +10 CMB! Wait, what's this... only 56 Health?!
*reaches for a pencil with an eraser*
(( LOL, Your figures are correct. And yes, CMB with STR+DEX+10 is extremely more fair than STR+15, especially to Monks, Rogues and Dex Fighters trying to use manuvers.))
Agile Maneuvers -feat allows you to use DEX instead of STR with CMB.
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Agile Maneuvers -feat allows you to use DEX instead of STR with CMB.
Yea, saw it. Didn't like it. Made my own version. The thing I don't like about the feat is that I feel that Dex should be part of the calculation already. 3.5 you had to make a touch attack so creatures that were smaller than medium and/or Dextrous had a chance before it got to a strength check.
By adding dex back in to the formula without a feat you see some of that come back into the system. With the feat and the beta rules as presented you might as well remove small creatures from the game. The second I see a small creature or smaller on the board I would just grapple it. You'll take it out of action almost everytime.
I have seen a lot of complaints about games where all everyone ever does is swing their sword. I think it will be a lot lamer if the CMB means that all you need to do is jack your str or Dex with agile maneuvers and grapple everything.
Agile Maneuvers -feat allows you to use DEX instead of STR with CMB.Yea, saw it. Didn't like it. Made my own version. The thing I don't like about the feat is that I feel that Dex should be part of the calculation already.
Yep, Agile Manuvers is what I would call a "Feat Tax", because saying that Grappling, Disarm and even Trip rely solely on Strength is extremely incorrect. If we were to go down the road of only one stat, the choice of STR or DEX should be the character's decision at the time of necessity, not because they were FORCED to have a feat to exist.
Traditionally(real world)...
Grapple = STR > DEX (with Heavy use of "Esacpe Artist" a DEX skill)
Disarm = DEX +SPEED
Trip = DEX > STR +SIZE
Bullrush/Overrun = STR +SIZE +SPEED
Point being not every manuver is STR-based by default... as I said above, Agile Manuvers = Feat Tax.
Monks, Rogues, Swashbucklers, etc. suffer in the STR-ONLY CMB world. Judo, Kung-Fu, Tai Chi are all real world examples of non-STR based fighting styles.
Not only that, but have you seen the rediculousness that is an Otyugh? A common monster in Korvosa, which is based on grappling prey to survive. Otyughs should be endangered or kept as house pets, cuz their grapples are now laughable.
The second I see a small creature or smaller on the board I would just grapple it. You'll take it out of action almost everytime.
I hadn't even thought about the small creatures in that aspect, but on top of that, don't get spotted casting a spell by the enemy barbarian... 40'+ movement and a rediculous grapple check later... it's over. Our group saw this in 3.5E(Female Elf Cleric vs. Human Male Wizard), Pathfinder Beta's CMB pretty much knocks it out of the park.
WOW, yet another eaten post....
Well the short of it was, that the bruiser will always win numbers wise. And that is the way it should be in such a case. I mean it sounds like Paizo made the encounter to show case such a character in a "non combat" situation (until it devolved obviously) allowing them to shine in an RP way that didn't involve swinging a weapon. The same was done with the Druid in the last AP.
And as your math has shown, if the rules as written were used the rest of the characters would have been on an even playing field (the example you gave was a +/-1) versus the baddies. Yeah they had to roll higher but the modifiers were close and so the CMB from PFRPG actually looks to be pretty balanced in that respect. Again I know you didn't like it from before, but after the steamroll which was the encounter I was curious to see if you would have been willing to run "rules as writen" in another AP to see how things would fall, and if things might not have been as bad as you were expecting. Looks like the answer is no from the post you put up though lol.
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All right, debates aside, it is time for the next installment of the playtest. At this point, the rules are set for the game, but I still find myself discussing what happened in our game so now it is just for enjoyment purposes.
Let’s set the table. Our Orc player was unable to join us yesterday so it was a group of four. They picked up where we left off, having bagged Rolth (literally, the orc had caught him, killed him and stuffed him into his bag of holding). So we started by divvying up some of the loot.
Spoiler Tag time.
The party began by helping Laori, the Zon-Kuthon Cleric, find Salvator Scream. They entered the “Emporer of Old Korvosa’s” Den and looking around. They found some severed heads, bagged them for the Orc (everyone figures he has a collection now). They then poked around and were ambushed by some Choker brutes. The CMB’s worked fairly well, but then there was no Over strengthened Orc Barbarian to skew the numbers and the chokers succeeded a number of times in grappling and applying the Choker hold. They nearly took out Laori who was at half health when we started. A few Spells from the Sorcerer and some lashings from the Rogue with his chain later and the party had taken out the worst of them and then Laori for spite Blinded the last one, making it a quick mopping action. Salvator was found, along with some of his paintings. Laori left the party, with Salvator, and was granted the Paintings that were found as her share of the spoils. She is happy and the party is happy and I am happy, While I like NPC's and Clerics are helpful, she was difficult for me to run well.
The party then rested (which at my table is 1 of 2 triggers for XP division, the other being the end of the gamming day). Ding the party levels. I am still amazed by how quickly we can level with out computers. In 3.5 all of our characters were on the Computer, now none are and I think it is faster than even 3.5 with computer help.
So the party is now 8th level.
Cleric gained his 8th level abilities Trickery and Knowledge domains. Not to mention he bumped his Wisdom. 18, +1 on the DC’s etc etc etc
Rogue I’ll let Altair tell you what he did, I know he took bleed and wow was he happy with that…;)
Sorcerer more spells, rainbow beam came out yesterday that was a new one. Sadly the dice were against him all day and did everything he told them not to do. The real disappointment is there are no spells that let you incinerate your dice on the spot…
Ranger 4/Rogue 4 She took her 4th level of Rogue giving her bleed as well. She also got uncanny dodge and She made her strength go to 18 (used some Fate Points for a single bump on it then used her 8th level to bump it to 18) This was the longest process in the leveling thing. She has a whole page of weapon combos to go through to adjust for BAB and Strength for attack as well as damage. This is where the Computer could have helped her.
So back to the Game…
The party finished resting up and returned to speak with Glorio Arkona. He was lounging in a tub when the party arrived. He gave them a Ring of Evasion in return for their assistance in putting down the Emperor. They then demanded Orsini. At which point he laughed and said a deal was a deal, but there was a little snag. It seems that Vencarlo Orsini was below the palace in the Vivified Labyrinth and while he had no problem with the party going down and speaking with him, and even taking him with them when they left, he had no intention of bringing Orsini up or having him fetched for them.
Being the magnanimous great lord he was, however, Glorio offered to tell them how to get down to him. He told them that, “My servant here will lead you down to the Elephant Statue in my Gardens, there you will find a button on the base of the statue. Press the button and follow the stairs that it reveals down into the depths. At the bottom of the stairs are the Cat’s Cradle, Look for the ledge with no door and there the door to the Vivified Labyrinth will be. Oh, and just because I am a fair man, I must warn you, the Labyrinth changes. There are 4 or 5 Levers down there and each time you move them the Labyrinth will change.” He is such a nice and helpful man…;)
The party followed the directions provided and went down to the underground Gardens (fungal of course) where they were ambushed by 3 Fungal Guardians. They would have been more frightening if they had popped out of invis right on top of the party and made attacks. Completely forgot they were invis when I set the fight up. It wouldn’t have made a lot of difference, as they aren’t sneak attackers so catching people flatfooted would not have thrown a lot more damage out, just an extra hit or two. These were large creatures using Falchions with improved Crit. They were all about the 15-20 crits, but the sad thing for them, and it is true whenever I use a Crit build, I couldn’t roll above a 12. I only threatened 3 times, and I didn’t break AC the first two times and couldn’t confirm the 3rd time. The only thing these things did that was even remotely impressive (Besides die quickly) was they breathed with a spore cloud that hit the Sorcerer and the Rogue with 4 points of Con, the Cleric saved and the Ranger/Rogue only took 1 point of Con. After the fight the party opened their bags of goodies and found 3 Potions of Lesser Restoration they had gotten earlier. (From Cressida Kroft if I am not mistaken)
I remembered something else about this fight after we had quit and I had cleaned everything up. The Rogue made 3 attacks the first round, on the gaurdians and we forgot that he has Surprise attacks, so they were technically flatfooted when he attacked them (1 readied and 2 AOO's). He probably would have destroyed the 1st one since he got 2 attacks on it and didn't add his Sneak attack dice on them (5d6 can add up quick)
Thus the Party moved on. They moved down the cat’s cradle, an ingeniously devised map, sadly there isn’t really any fighting on it so the terrain issues it could provide as well as the Cinematics were a bit of a let down. Still it looks impressive. With what Glorio told them, they had no problem finding the Secret door and the tunnel to the Labyrinth.
This thing is a bit of a piece of work. They pulled the lever and enetered the dungeon. A little later they found the first nasty gift left in the place, a Symbol of Pain. One failed save later and the Rogue was Pissed as he was taking -4 for an hour on pretty much every thing that was important on his sheet, combat, skill checks etc. The Sorcerer then hit it with the last charge off his 10th level Dispel Magic wand and shut it down. Several Symbols were run into by the party, One, the rogue detected just before he was affected and stopped the party. That one the Cleric risked the Will save, made it easily, and dispelled the symbol. They realized that there were numerous Symbols and they were running out of Dispel’s. They also found a room with 3 chests. They had a great time trying to find traps, the Ranger/Rogue was rolling poorly on search and the Rogue was having great rolls, but taking a -4. It worked out that they didn’t really get a wammy out of the traps, but they did find some Potions of Cure Serious as well as some more Lesser Restorations.
At this point it was time to call it for the day. They will probably attempt to rest and recoup Dispel Magic as much as possible.
Yup I took the bleeding strike rogue talent.
I was not going to until someone pointed out ( Brute I believe )
that it does not have a time limitation. I never read it that closely and always assumed it stoped after a round or two. Needless to say at 5 sneak dice ( one from supplied by the chain ) it was simply too good of an option to let pass. I am eager to see it play out, unfortunately everytime I got a sneak attack in this session it was after the mob was low on HP so the end result was a kill shot.
I also via the Fate point system, took Improved Feint. By virtue of luck or poor role playing I am the last to scrape together enough points to grab a feat. This should be a huge boon to me as I have been having a very hard time getting sneak attacks going despite haveing the entire vexing flanker tree. The mobs tend to let about one sneak attack go off and then back up into corners etc..So I should see my damage start to catch up the our mighty Orc here in the near future.
As too the session itself.....
Sorcerer more spells, rainbow beam came out yesterday that was a new one. Sadly the dice were against him all day and did everything he told them not to do. The real disappointment is there are no spells that let you incinerate your dice on the spot…
My new spells for 8th level were "Force Missiles"(SPC) and "Prestidigitation"(PHB). I'm just kind of tired of picking Zero-level spells honestly, I almost never use them and I have the "USEFUL ONES" to me and my theme/goals.
Heh, "Rainbow Beam"(SPC) is one of my few 'single target' spells. I've had it since 7th level I believe, whenever I started using "Rainbow Blast"(SPC). My dice were betraying me quite a bit yesterday... when you know something is resistant to fire, and you ask them to not roll Fire(1) for a random energy-type on an D8 and they DO, it can be a bit frustrating. Anyhow, "Rainbow Beam"(2d12 random dmg) is a 2nd level spell and hasn't really seen much use as "Blast of Force"(3d6 force dmg+knockdown) is also 2nd level and a bit more reliable for damage.
Not to mention the opening "Rainbow Blast" which I angrily decided need to be a re-roll because 9 dmg on 5D8 is unacceptable, ended up with a whooping 13 dmg(after fire resist), yay... ppffffttt.
Although let me tell you, "Magic Missile"(PHB) and "Chain Missile"(SPC) casters... you need a new friend and they need to be an 8th level Cleric with the 'Destruction Domain'(PFRPG), nothing like adding +5 dmg to every missile. :D (Ref: Aura of Destruction)
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The group got together again this past Sunday; the party was back up to full strength (i.e. all 5 PC’s). Here is the play test report.
When last we met the party was in the vivified Labyrinth, having been sent down there by…(Spoiler alert)…
They waited for the worst of the effects they were under, symbol of pain, to wear off then started exploring again. They went back to the first room to trigger the next shift in the dungeon, leaving them a straight path, albeit through the dungeon guarding DarkSphinx, who they spent a long time fighting, but mostly due to a lot of effects from both sides that left few if anyone able to actually do anything to the other side. The Barbarian used his howl to fear the Darksphinx into fleeing. She botched a will save that would have been rather difficult but doable and then rolled for maximum duration which I thought was going to be the end of her, but she had gotten a spell off and the nature of the hall put everyone at a disadvantage in hunting her down and killing her easily. She wound up in a corner and even panicked the rogue was unable to roll well on his bluff and attack rolls at the same time to put in sneak attack damage. Her DR probably multiplied her available HP’s by around 5 fold. The Barbarian and the rogues finally started dropping in large quantities of damage just as she started to fight again.
They found Vencarlo in her lair. He told them that Neolandus was also in the labyrinth and had to be saved. So the party quickly (In real time at any rate. They took closer to an hour in game time to return to the beginning of the labyrinth but they had it figured out and just kept pulling the same lever until they got the doorway back out of the labyrinth) returned to the beginning, where Vencarlo showed them an illusionary wall that led to the Torture chamber. Within was a Beatific One, a creature created by the sick minds of Paizo…6 Arms, three heads, All monked up, 5+ attacks that just wound up being sickening, course even with her DR the party dropped her in about 3 rounds the damage of an 8th level party (albeit extra strong due to my house rules) is amazing and sickening…ok its amazing and fun!
The party has Rescued the Dams…err the Seneschal in distress. They now have Vencarlo, who is equipped up, since they had the lockbox from his house with all his toys in it and a Seneschal who they have tried to equip but they have nothing really that suitable for. The Party then decides its time to leave. They start heading back out and are intercepted at the entrance to the Labyrinth by a woman with a Fox head. (They never did ask her name) She suggests they should return upstairs and kill Bahor…the party says, “Who?” in unison. She sighs and says that they were sent down into a trap by Bahor and that they really should take her side and go upstairs and attack Glorio for her. They kind of look at her like she has a Fox head instead of a human head or something. Finally She gives up and we start a combat.
So…A Rakshasa Monk is quite impressive. The DR 15/Good and Piercing is just amazingly helpful…I want to play a Rakshasa monk for my next character. They tank amazingly well… ;) She, of course, is spelled up before she comes to talk to the party. Turns out she has a spy in the party so knows everything they are up to and when it is time to cast spells and prepare before beginning negotiations. The Cleric’s Favorite Weapon this campaign has been a Silver Dagger he got waaaaay back in the first mod, in the first mission they received from Cressida Kroft, the one where they took on the deserters. Turns out that dagger is a creature and it works for this woman. It drops off the Cleric, turns into a Cobra like creature and attacks the cleric (missing horribly his AC is almost 30 now and the poor thing is a CR 3 with an Attack of +7, i.e. 20 on the die required to hit) The Orc goes next and turns and smashes the thing in 1 swing. So much for the magic dagger that we can’t seem to identify what it does…
The Rakshasa is doing amazingly well, she is pounding folks though at the rate she is damaging it will take around 10 rounds or more for her to put anyone in the party into a critical situation HP-wise. They, however, barely injure her if at all. The Barbarian took 2 rounds to get to her. He was the only one who could consistently throw down 16+ damage without sneak attack and the rogue characters seemed to be missing a lot and when they did hit they were dropping low damage and having a hard time breaking the 15 that day. Eventually the barbarian got a look of glee on his face and declared a grapple. One roll of the die later…well it wasn’t the easiest grapple he has ever attempted but he caught her. Which made it so much easier for the rogues to start dropping in the Sneak attacks and kept her from dropping back anymore and using spells and items on the party. Another round later and his natural bite attack from his rage power and she was pinned, which let the rogues just go to town. Her AC dropped by almost 10 points making the misses turn into hits, and the sneak attack damage finally started ramping up also. Down went the Rakshasa…
Now the party is at a cross road. Do they continue with their plan of escape or return upstairs and give Glorio the body of the Rakshasa that tried to con them into killing him. They chose to go up stairs and try to negotiate a deal for her. After they rest…
They returned to the Arkona palace the way they had come from. Back up the Cat’s Cradle to the Stairs that let out under the Statue of the Elephant. They just started to exit the statue when it started to move…the statue…the whole thing, plus it had a pair of Rakshasa on the back of it. By now they party had figured out the Rakshasa thing and the cleric dropped an Align Weapon spell on the Spiked Chain. That plus the Barbarian and Ranger/Rogue. The Sorcerer showed off his Orb of Force (having grown tired of the SR problems he was having he reached for a spell with a lot of damage and no SR). These things let the party whip the two Rakshasa into shape.
The Fight was long and it was difficult but they weren’t that beaten up by it. The Sorcerer had gotten into a spot when one of the Rakshasa had realized he couldn’t hit the Ranger/Rogue and wasn’t likely to stop the Barbarian with his light damage so he turned and tried smacking the Sorcerer around a few times. He didn’t live long enough to discover if this plan would work or not, however.
What did I learn from this?
1) Never let your BBEG get grappled by a Barbarian. With the Rules as written he would have almost Auto Succeeded. With my house rules, it was a 14+ for him…he rolled well. He does that a lot when the situation is grim. It is the nature of the Player actually.
2) Never underestimate the player’s ability to go back and do an encounter that they had managed to move past through RP means.
3) Never, Never, Never split your attacks. Concentrate on 1 PC at a time and hit them until they are dead! Oh wait…that’s how you win, not how you DM a story.
4) Don’t drink to many cups of coffee to far away from a restroom. (That is something I learned a very long time ago but thought I would reiterate here)
5) The DR system is still frustrating when you don’t have the answer, but not broken…just frustrating.
6) SR-less spells are underrated, but necessary. I have felt sorry for the Sorcerers and wiz’ in 3.x as I have never seen them not lose half their damage or just fail to connect with a spell most of the time. Yes I know, on paper they throw the most damage. Haven’t seen it play out here though. Not in 5 or 6 campaigns. Occassionally they pull of something amazing, but not often enough IMHO…
Notice the Sorcerer doesn't even get mentioned until he had leveled up(9th, after resting) and started using Orb of Force. That would be due to several issues that basically said... "Devereux, you should take the day off and make your party some sammiches."
1) +1 Seeking Composite Longbow w/ adamantine arrows... I had roll a 17+, when I did, they all had DR that made even magic adamantine arrows look stupid.
2) SR 18+ Good luck with that! My dice don't generally roll that well consecutively and I wasn't trying to WASTE spells every round. Ya know incase the monsters that weren't basically immune to everything might show up.
3) Heavenly Fire... Hey, its a Touch Attack! Win! Not so much... Hey its FIRE and does a maximum of 10 damage aka squat against every monster in this dungeon! (see above #1)
Final Tally: SR + DR + AC = Sorcerer player who could've skipped a play session and not hindered the party in the slightest bit.
So I took 'Orb of Force' and now with adequate in-character reasons to pull such a spell out of my nether regions. Also being Force-based which is the character's entire theme spell-wise.
Those of you who think this spell is broken, you can bite me. When the monsters have a triple stacked defense and you watch your friends play D&D for 5 hours, you let me know what spell you would pick. ;p
While I don't always expect to shine or be useful, it would be nice to do SOMETHING to earn my keep in a 5 hour gaming session before the last 20 minutes other than drink iced tea and urinate. Yea I know... go make sammiches! *sigh*
Dev, you are being to hard on yourself.... You did manage to blast your party with the rod of wonder a handful of times.
It was an up and down day for alot of the party. It seemed as Brute mentioned that I could not manage to land the bluff and the attack roll in the same round, and the field of battle seems to keep me from getting flanks despite a tremendous feat investment ( whole vexing flanker tree and spiked chain )
So far the Barbarian really is the lynch pin for our party. We do get by without him, but there is a dramatic uptic in party strength with his presence. The character is just a steam roller, he makes the rest of us look pretty sad really. I still love playing my rogue, but I never touch his damage output, I certainly dont tank as well, and am no where near his cmb for using maneuvers.
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Well, about the tanking. Rogue is still not truly a tanking class. You can manufacture a tank out of a Rogue and something, but straight up if you want to tank you really need to be looking at the D10 or D12 HD's. They just have better options.
As for Damage, that is a slightly different situation. The Orc Barbarian puts out an extra chunk of damage above a human or 1/2 orc only by +1 str. With the Overhand Chop that is only +2 damage. The true culprit in his excessive damage output is Overhand Chop and the other Feats down that path. When he can double instead of 1 1/2 his strength it adds up quickly. My frustration with the 2-handed build was the extra damage the 2-hander got in 3.5 that the other builds couldn't compensate for. 2-weapon gets the 1 1/2 but splits it over 2 weapons increased threats of crits and all, but over all the damage of the 1 shot is still better and doesn't suffer the -2 penalties to hit. The Sword and board just has no comparable damage output and (at least in 3.5) didn't benefit from any ability to last on the battle field any longer than the 2 handed build. The only other build that worked in 3.5 that was viable was the chain/trip fighter.
All that being said, his damage has all but plateaued. Short of putting more d6 damage types on his hammer, he is not going to get a lot more damage. A few points over time but he is maxed out. Altair's damage, recently, has been across the board below his average. He has run into numerous reasons for this, none were truly failures to produce, just a lot of odd situations adding up. The large creatures in a tight dungeon leaving no viable flanking spots with vexing or without, Creatures with DR that took most of the damage off the top of the chain. Many situations where, for one reason or another, your damage was lowered here and there, no sneak attack, couldn't hit, couldn't bypass DR. Some of the situations also affected the Barbarian, but all to often, he was less hampered by the situation.
The Rogue's damage has no where to go but up. Every other level you throw another d6 onto the damage whether your chain gets better or not. Eventually those will start to hit, hit harder and hit more often.
Also, don't forget, the Chain is a 2-handed weapon and you could ramp up some damage on your own with the Overhand Chop tree. Though, that tree truly benefits more once you break the 18 strength.
You did manage to blast your party with the rod of wonder a handful of times.
Oh I forgot about that. Yea, that was tons of fun... Stinking Cloud, Lightning Bolt, etc. However when your Sorcerer/Wizard decides to 'open fire' with a 'Rod of Wonder' round after round you can be pretty sure he's either completely out of his mind, completely humped and grasping for straws, or just plain having way too much random fun.
I can assure you, unless that Rod gets "misplaced", you will most certainly be seeing again it in the near future. I am not inclined to sell something that has "unlimited" number of uses.
* Altair slowly creeps over to Devereux's pack in the middle of the night, and gently removes the offending rod of wound party...*
I honestly didnt mean to imply that I should out tank our trusty barbarian....but I do think by 9th level I should be at least approaching his damage output. Even with sneak attack going off he often beats me by 15 or more per swing and he gets more of those as well. I love the new rogue to pieces, but I will not be entirely shocked if either over hand chop or the barbarian or both get toned down a little bit in the final cut.
Even with sneak attack going off he often beats me by 15 or more per swing and he gets more of those as well. I love the new rogue to pieces, but I will not be entirely shocked if either Overhand chop or the barbarian or both get toned down a little bit in the final cut.
The extra damage you mention (10-15) is coming purely from Overhand Chop as it's granting him approximately +12 EXTRA damage while Raging. There is nothing wrong with the Barbarian, and his being Pure Orc only gives him a +1 modifier (potential) bonus over a Human or 1/2 Orc.
Overhand Chop SHOULD have pre-requisites is the problem. That wouldn't stop a Human Fighter from taking it at 1st level though unless you placed a BaB/Level requirement on it.
Something like ...Power Attack/Cleave/Overhand Chop/Backswing ... with a likely +3 BaB and +4 BaB on the last two accordingly.
What it SHOULDN'T be: Fighter-Only. That whole train of thought is crap coated crap with a crap filled center and leaves Paladins/Rangers/Marshals, etc. hanging out to dry late game for cool combat tricks. I'm talking about you SHIELD MASTERY!
I think the whole idea of class specific feats is a terrible one. If you want something to be class specific that is a class ability...not a feat. I would be down with fighters getting it for free at a certain level with others having to take a feat, but to my mind that is already covered by fighters getting so many feats to begin with.
I agree perhaps on adding a feat below overhand chop but not two. I like it as another feat progression off power attack. Then a human or fighter could take it at first, but any race that gets a +4 bump to strength would have to delay until third if they were say for example a barbarian who can rage that already huge strength to redamndiculous levels.
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We returned to Korvosa yesterday. I shall just put the rest of the info under the spoiler tag, you know the drill by now.
The party picked up from where we left off, in the garden of the Arkona Palace. The party had found the two men they were looking for in the dungeons beneath, then had attempted to return to the palace to trade the body of the Rakshasa they found beneath to Glorio Arkona for more ransom. After the fight in the garden however, they decided to just abandon this plan and return back down to grab the boat they saw tied up to the docks at the bottom of the Cat’s Cradle and use it to escape Old Korvosa.
As they came across the last of the rope bridges down they spotted a pair of King Cobra Snakes down on the ledge beneath them. Large King Cobra snakes. They quickly decided to put the smack down on them. The Orc jumped over the side and landed beside one, the Rogue attacked with his reach, the Sorcerer used his new handy dandy power of Celestial Wings to get into position.
It was then that they realized there was an invisible Rakshasa leading the snakes and he full attacked the Rogue…and experienced Epic fail. My dice were cold. Apparently all my d20’s thought they were d8’s yesterday as the highest I rolled for the first few rounds of combat was a paltry 7 (Probably for the best that we weren’t using the critical fumble deck as I rolled more Nat 1’s than I rolled all other numbers combined). The party quickly dispatched the snakes and would have beaten down the Rakshasa with as much ease (as the Rogue’s chain was still aligned) but they were having a few problems with his AC combined with his other Defenses. The Sorcerer Lit him up for more than half his damage out of the gate with his Anti-Rakshasa spell (also called orb of force from the SC) Then it was miss miss miss on both sides. In the midst of the fight Orsini ran Neolandus out to the boat.
Just as the party smashed down the Rakshasa a beast rose out of the water. A Large Reefclaw (these creatures tickle my groups fancy). After the Butter and Garlic Jokes had subsided we returned to combat with the Large Reefclaw that had begun the Combat by grabbing Orsini and poisoning him with numbing poison. The party then went on the offensive against the beast. Numerous rounds later (in which my Dice woke up and then decided that anything less than a 20 was just not worth doing) the Barbarian was beat up a bit, the Cleric was sweating bullets as I had Critted him only to ultimately miss him because of his Copy Cat (read single copy Mirror Image) and the rest of the party was amazed by the shear number of HP’s the thing was taking and not seeming to care. Finally the party put it down, saved Orsini.
After having put the Barbarian’s Dex back together (he had taken a hefty dose of the Numbing poison also) they took the boat out and discovered that it was mid day. They waited to cross the river till nightfall, which gave them plenty of time to rest.
Now, I want to preface the next part with the statement, “It’s not my fault!”
The Cleric, in studying his spells, mentions to me (which I heard but didn’t really process) that he wishes to put a Symbol of Sleep on the back of the boat. Ok whatever (hey busy DM is getting a drink he doesn’t actually listen to what is being said he just nods and smiles) The party is in the boat and exit into the river, with the eventual decision of just shooting straight across. There was a little back and forth as to what to do, I allowed them to retro the argument to rest time as I couldn’t imagine that they would wait the 8-10 hours of resting and prepping until they were out on the river to decide which way to go. Finally they realized they didn’t have to return to Cressida, but that the two friends they had found had to escape the city and be escorted to safety.
Let’s return to the rowing across the river. The Orc is handling the oars, the others are all carefully watching for trouble. They had waited for a Gray Maiden Patrol boat to pass, but apparently they had made to much noise, it swung back around to investigate. I had mentioned this time as well as the last time they crossed the river to get into Old Korvosa that the Maidens were using various size ships and boats and at night they would use Bull’s Eye Lanterns to sweep the River and shore for folks trying to break through the Quarantine. So the ship sweeps back towards them, then they Shine the Lantern light onto the boat the party is in…Cool I am thinking, a good ol’ fashion range combat! Then the Cleric ask’s the silly question of the night.
“Did they save versus the Symbol of Sleep?”
“Buh?”
“You know, the one I put on the back of the boat?”
Now…here’s the real sad thing. I knew it was there but hadn’t paid any attention to it…I had the Ship (it was a small 1 mast sailing vessel with 3 sailors, 12 CR 2 and 4 CR 4 Gray Maiden’s on it…it was coming up on them from behind and to the side. So in essence, the Maiden’s Vessel was 50’ behind and slightly to the left of the party. The Bull’s Eye Lantern was shinning from the bow and lit the entire boat the party was on perfectly…huh…
19 saves later 2 of the CR 2’s who had rolled nat 20’s are awake. The ship is no longer being sailed, but is literally adrift…The Sorcerer takes to the air and gets over to the ship in 1 round. The 2 maiden’s Shoot at the party, then have to make another save from the Symbol…sleepy time. I have seen the light. I now know how Piracy in D&D worlds Takes place. They don’t use Cannon’s they use Symbol Spell’s placed under removable coverings so the crew can not worry about being affected when the “Gun’s” aren’t needed…wow.
The Rogue uses his Boots of Dimensional something or other and hops over to the ship and helps the sorcerer loot the sleeping folks, I have to give them credit they resisted the urge to roll the armored women into the water and watch them drown as the spell reads only magical means will wake folks who fail their saves. 30 minutes is plenty of time to loot and get the heck out of Dodge…
The party then finishes crossing the river, the Sorcerer and Rogue (being carried by the sorcerer at ½ speed) fly around and over, so they don’t come into view of the back of the boat and rejoin the party.
Wow…I owe the Cleric a Fate Point. I was to stunned to think of it at the time…Wow…
The party then escorted Vencarlo Orsini and Neolandus Kalepopolis to Harse, a village some 2 days away by Elephant (they took the Elephant Figurine of wondrous power from the Arkona garden) The Orc Barbarian and the Ranger/Rogue both move 40’ along with the Elephant (the Ranger/Rogue has the boots of Striding and Springing) In Harse they met up with an old friend of Vencarlo’s, Jasan. They also reunited with Trinia Sabor a young bard they had assisted in escaping the grasp of the queen. There they learned much of what was going on.
Neolandus finally told him what he knew and what he suspected. He told them of Midnight’s teeth, a Relic that the Shoanti had been guarding before Korvosa’s Founding. That he suspected the Queen had found these Teeth and used the Relic to fashion her new crown and thus her power and nature had grown and hardened. He also mentioned that he believes they are actually the Teeth of an ancient Blue Dragon Warlord that was Dedicated to Zon-Kuthon. He suggested that someone should go speak with the Shoanti and find out what they know and if they can confirm this. The party, after first thinking of just returning to Korvosa, decided to go to the Cinderlands and see if they could find Thousand Bones and find out what the Shoanti know.
The Party is now in Janderhoff, Selling and buying. They had accumulated quite a bit of wealth (not even including the free gifts the Gray Maiden’s provided from the piracy experiment) They were busy converting it to useful and more powerful stuff when we left them at the end of the day’s adventure.
Till next time, dear friends…
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This was quite a day of adventuring. The Cleric had a shining moment, the Sorcerer startled me with the damage he put up, and the Barbarian continues to amaze. The Rogue is gleefully examining his new poison stash and the Ranger/Rogue is all about figuring out how to make humans more angry with her. All in all I would say that it was a good day.
I warned everyone to bring a leveled version of their character next time as they are only 2500 or so away from 10th level (perfectly positioned for the next adventure)
There was also an <ahem> incident at the horse farm. It seems our intrepid orc went in search of pigs to play a rousing game of blood pig. It is his favorite... mind you, we did stop him in time. But it was a near miss when it seems he was convinced that the privy was the goal! Still you may all rest at ease that no swine were harmed in the making of this session.
As there should be, but at nine levels the Barbarian with over hand chop has outshined the rougues and a dps built Sorcerer for more than half of the life span of this campaign.
I'm really not High DPS, never even intended to be. If it NEEDS to have a title, I would call it an Auto-Hit Sorcerer. The only time I've ever MISSED with a spell was due to DR or SR, and technically those aren't misses, they are simply being ignored by said target.
On several occasions if I had been a DPS Sorcerer I would've been slightly more effective squeaking through some damage here and there. However along with that comes the world of rediculousness that is Resistance to Fire/Electricity after CR6 or so. In which case I would've super-glued(it exists, its in the DMG!) a metamagic "Rod of Transmutation"(Magic Item Compendium) to my off-hand so I would've been able to avoid the above resistance situation.
I've already planned out my new tricks come 10th level with my 5th level spells. It should be fun, leaning more towards Celestial than Force this time... for now. :)
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Brutesuad07 forgot to mention that we had contemplated luring a few more ships into the 'Symbol of Sleep' by using a 'Ghost Sound'(at 9th level) fog horn noise. But I think our group as a whole realized that to be a bit too MMO grind for our liking, not to mention the smackdown we would've eventually received once our DM stopped being amused by it.
The discussion of Cannonless Pirate Ships, Spell Jammer Ships and Heavy Warhorses with pulley-sliding 'Symbol' panels(or barding flaps) was quite entertaining also. :)
I also think there are possible applications for this in the future.
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And yes, the thought of the Orc playing Blood Pig with a privy goal was game-stoppingly funny for all involved.
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So this past Sunday we picked up the dice, dusted off the character sheets, and spread the sand on the board (j/k we don’t use sand). When we last left off, our intrepid adventurers were spending a few joy filled, relaxing days in Janderhoff gearing up for a war of sorts. They had loot to sell and things to purchase. The Cleric of Calistria now has the Craft Arms and Armor feat and with some haggling by the party was able to find a suitable workshop for a reasonable price. Needless to say, the armor and weapons in the party are just a bit more fancy. A few gems here, a new coat of polish there, etc. There were a few wands and potions made or purchased. A few potions here and there exchanged for the new model year. A ring or two upgraded or replaced with something far more gaudy. That sort of thing. We also learned that the Cleric of Calistria was planning to take the Leadership feat here in the near future and found the Bard the party was traveling with to be an excellent candidate.
Well the party then set off for…
You didn’t think I wouldn’t spoiler it did you?
They set off for the Kallow mounds, a place they had heard of but were reminded of by a quick note from Vencarlo Orsini. As they were leaving town, however, they were jumped by 4 Red Mantis assassins! Two were spider climbing along the walls of buildings and two more were strategically placed (poorly) for an ambush.
Well the Orc Chaged his horse forward and put the smack down on one, jumping off his horse and leveling a world of hurt on one. The Sorcerer then followed up with a spell (whose name I have now forgotten but the gist is Distracting Wuss Slap!) that caused the Red Mantis to make a Concentration check or suffer AOO’s from those around. Sadly the Beta has no Concentration Checks. I used a Spell craft check which they promptly failed, but have worked out since then that the spell will use Fort Saves from now on.
The Red Mantis Failed his save and the Orc got the gleam in his eyes that can only mean his gigantic hammer is about to paste someone, which it would have, IF he hadn’t rolled a 1…Sad day
The Rogue rode his horse up next to one of the Assassins on the wall and tripped him. 20’ fall to the ground, provoking an AOO…so much for Spider Climb ;) Since the poor bastard was flatfooted still the sneak attack damage was impressive. Realized after the fight that we forgot to have the rogue roll up his Itterative attack here I think. May have been able to finish this guy but, as it was, he didn’t last long anyway.
The next to go were the Red Mantis. The one the Orc failed to finish because of the 1 on the d20 then demanded the Orc make a will save as he began weaving and waving his swords in a hypnotic pattern. The Prayer Attack! This time the orc failed the save and I had him…or would if the attack didn’t take 3 rounds to execute. Later you will see what I mean. Two of the others flanked the ranger/rogue and put a world of hurt on her, but, do to moving were unable to truly threaten her with death or anything respectfully close without full attacks. Next came the Ranger/Rogue. She used her absolute hatred of Humans and her Flank (as well as her surprise round talent which treated her opponents as flatfooted) to put the proverbial smack down, resulting in a near death experience, for one of the assassins upon her. Well The cleric and the bard were surprised so we would not see them act this round.
The following round was the (near) Finisher. With a crit from an Orb of Force, a full attack or two here and there as well as a royal smacking around of the Mantis that was Mesmerizing the Orc. Well the Mantis were done. One of them managed to drink a potion of Invis and flee, one of them exploded into a fine red mist and the other two well, they just fell down on the job.
This encounter clicked the party to 10th level. The Cleric purchased, with Fate Points, the leadership feat, taking Trinia and 8 level 1 followers. He chose a contingent of elven rangers for followers.
The party healed up quickly and they headed for The Cinderlands. After a few days travel the party found itself Crossing the barren plains of the Cinderlands. When they looked up and (some of them) spotted a red Airliner headed in for a landing somewhere very close to them…turns out it was no airliner. It was a full on Red Dragon.
Init puts the dragon in the middle of the pack, but it is now 150ish feet ahead of the party. A note here; trailing behind the party are the 8 followers of the Cleric which is why I chose to have the Dragon attack from strait ahead of the party to the east. I just couldn’t bring myself to demolish those poor lowbies intentionally...However, the rangers and the bard are surprised as is the Orc barbarian. The Rogue, Ranger/Rogue and Sorcerer all act before the dragon. The Sorcerer turns his mount due north of the party begins summoning. The Rogue goes invis, jumps off his horse and runs north east. The Ranger/rogue drops due south and fires her crossbow. Then the Dragon makes a move and breaths…
OOOOOOOH the carnage.
Let us start with the Dragons Fear. A few of the PC’s (The Orc, the Ranger/Rogue and the Bard follower if I remember correctly) are shaken. The 8 surprised level 1 rangers are panicked as are all of the horses on the board.
Then let us follow up with a breath attack of immense proportions. Sadly the Dragon could not include the whole party (I say sadly with a tongue in cheek, calm down guys) The 3 party members who had split off were outside of the area as were 2 of the Rangers, thus ensuring that 2 of them would live to see the next day. The damage was horrendous. We didn’t bother with the horses or the Ranger followers. The save required them to roll a 22 on the die…They took the full affect which was almost 3 times there HP. The number was up near 100. I forget now. It was just god-awful impressive. The people who needed to make the roll to survive did (with the exception of the followers) I then rolled to see how long the dragon would have to wait to breath again. For some reason I always roll a 4 on this roll. Ah well.
So the cleric goes and channels, healing some of it back for the Orc, himself and the bard follower.
Round 1: Score 6 NPC followers for the Dragon. No damage inflicted by the party at this time.
The Sorcerer’s spell goes off. He drops a Griffon in the air a goodly distance behind the dragon and has it charge.
I was a bit mean here and didn’t realize how tough I had built this beast. The Dragons spells were Mage Armor and Shield as well as Scintillating Scales and it had used a scroll of Protection from Arrows. In effect its AC was 34 while its Touch was 27 and Flat-Footed was 27 (these #’s may be off a bit as I am recalling this with just memory and no notes) It also then had DR 5/Magic DR 10/Magic for ammunition and SR 19 That is on top of having 235-ish HP’s.
The Griffon rolled a 19 and some other pretty good numbers and missed by 1 or 2. The bard had not begun singing and the Dragon had dropped an AOO in on it on the way in for it’s attacks. The Sorcerer then cast Orb of Force. The Touch AC was way high and he failed to connect.
The Rogue tried a shot with his Xbow, but missed.
The Ranger/Rogue missed again with her Xbow (A note here. The entire fight she was handicapped with dice that would not roll above a 6) I will not mention any more of her actions as she failed to connect with anything and never drew the attention of the dragon. (And I can get away with this because the player is my wife and loves me dearly and (luckily) doesn’t read the boards…)
The Orc got to use the toys he has been waiting for. He had worked up a +1 Viscious, Keen Scythe when the party had spent the loot as he didn’t have nearly enough to touch his already ubermagicked up Earthbreaker. He had taken the Barbarian rage power that allows him to drop 8 points and auto confirm a crit so he was anxious to try for a x4 on the beastie. He has owned gloves of Throwing and Returning for quite a while, these gloves allow him to grant the throwing and returning traits on a weapon he is wielding for 1 round 3/day. He would go ahead and use the 1st of these here. He hit, with a 19…and Crited the dragon for 1/3 of his HP. He now had the Dragon’s Attention.
The Dragon Cast Bloodwind (Spell Compendium) Allows the caster to use Natural weapons as ranged attacks up to close range.
The Cleric Channeled and put up his copy cat (a single Mirror image) and the bard ran back a ways and began Singing.
The Sorcerer stripped 10 SR off the Dragon on his turn and the Griffon flew off to set up another charge for the next round.
The Rogue then shot with his xbow attempting to poison the dragon. Sadly his bow was not magical, nor was his ammo and while the poison would have actually worked (I rolled the save from the poison and failed before I realized that the ammo was not magical and therefore did no damage, thus no poison penetrated)
The Orc Threw again, hitting but for minimal (as in teens) damage.
The Hovering Dragon then made a full attack on the Orc and the Cleric who were the only targets within range and the only 2 huddled close enough together to make it worth while. The screaming was aweful…Had I concentrated on 1 target, someone would have gone down. As it was the 2 of them were beaten up pretty good.
The Cleric Dispel’s Magic crashing the Dragon’s Defenses.
The Bard then moves back up a bit and gets the Cleric, Barbarian, Herself, Sorcerer, and Rogue in a Haste Spell.
The Sorcerer connects with an Orb of Force. The Griffon charges again, but misses again.
The Rogue does a running jump, and manages to connect a Sneak Attack, using the Griffon as his flanker.
The Orc throws for the final time with the gloves for the day and misses.
The Dragon moves away from the party and casts Mage Armor again. (At this point it was a toss up. The Dragon was down to 35-50 Hp’s but its AC was still impressive and it had moved far enough up and away that no one was going to get off another cheap jump attack on it. The Griffon had not been able to hit it and I wishy washed on the decision. I should have probably had the thing flee as it was now significantly down, but at the same time, it should have been confident that it’s Armor would hold. The majority of the damage came from a Crit from the barbarian and the other chunk came after it’s Defenses had been dropped by the Dispel. I chose to stick it out.)
The Cleric Channeled to put his injured back up a bit. The bard used her magic bow and took a pot shot but rolled crappy.
The Sorcerer hit it with another spell, the Griffon charged it again, same results. The dragon is still alive but now it is definitely going to bug out. The Sorcerer has left it in the teens of HPs.
The Rogue can’t get an attack off (I believe he chose to go invis again instead)
The Orc’s turn. He had moved a goodly distance away from the rest of the party, but that had put him not to far from where the Dragon finished it’s move. He grabbed a javelin, since his throwing returning gloves were used up. And Proceeded to roll up a threat. He used the Rage power and confirmed it…and killed the beast.
Now the party spends the time to recover the few horses that had fled but survived. They had extra mounts with them also, so they were down a few but not to walking yet. They then proceeded to scavenge up the body. Took the teeth, the claws, the scales (for the armor later) took the tail and the meat and the…well they left the intestines I think…
A day later they get close enough to see the Kallow mounds and are greeted by a dozen or so Boneslayers, Shoanti braves of the Skoan-Quah or Bone clan. The braves are not pleased to see an Orc on Shoanti lands, but the party convince them that the Orc is not a member of the Urglin orc’s nor is he anything other than hired muscle and that he swings a mean hammer and he helped greatly in taking down the red dragon. The shoanti are impressed with the pieces of dragon that the party is able to show them and mention that the Dragon had been terrorizing the area for a few months now. They lead the party back to the Skoan-Quah camp. There they are greated by Thousand Bones, the Shoanti who asked for their help back in Korvosa (a long time ago. Like on page 1 of this board)
Thousand Bones greets them and tells the camp of the bravery of the party helping recover Ghaken’s Body. He then asks what brings the party to him. They tell him of what has been going on. He suggests they rest and that there will be more talk of all of this at the Council Fire later that evening. The party is led to a guest Yurt and given Bath’s and Fed.
As they are getting comfortable a party of Sklar-Quah (Sun Clan) arrive with the body of one of their braves for burial. A ceremonial greeting later and the body is handed over to the Skoan-Quah. As they are about to leave, Krojun Eats-What-He-Kills, the leader of the Skoan-quah sees the guest yurt is occupied and investigates who it is that is visiting. Upon finding Tshamek (wet landers) and an Orc among them he begins to spit fire (not literally) and demands the party be thrown out. Thousand bones intervenes and all but tells the Krojun to shut up (nicer than that) and to leave the party be.
Krojun gets sulky and challenges the party to Sredna, a Shoanti game of strength. The Orc gets the gleam in his eye and wants to play, but the Shoanti won’t even recognize the existence of the Orc. After some bantering, including an allusion to the fact that Krojun Fears the Orc the Cleric agrees to play against Krojun, but it is also agreed that if Krojun wins he will then play the orc.
Sredna is a game of Intimidation strength and endurance. The opponents start with intimidate checks and the winner of the Intimidations gets 2 points each round (3 rounds) Then it is opposed Strength checks with the winner also getting 2 points. After each round each player has to make a Fort check with the DC being their opponents Sredna points.
I will double the Sredna points if/when I play this game again. It took 20 minutes for Krojun to beat the Cleric and then it was close. I realized it was more likely that one of them would roll a 1 on a fort save than either opponent actually “Beating” the other.
The Orc is up next. This one went even longer even though we knew the rules. In the end the Orc would win this game, but this time Krojun actually had to roll something other than a 1 to fail and finally rolled a 5 when he needed a 6 or better.
The party then attends the Bone Clan’s Council Fire. Thousand bones tells the party (This is something of the short version) the Sun Clan Shaman have the info the party seeks about the Queens new crown. The Sun Shamans won’t talk to them about it though. They also won’t tell Thousand bones. The party would have to earn the respect of the sun clan and become members. To do this though they learn they would have to go and be swallowed and cut their way out of Cindermaw a beast of legend. That sounds just great they say let’s go. But wait Thousand Bones says. The Sun Clan won’t believe you. How do we get them to believe us? You’ll need a truthspeaker! Ok where do we find one? The Moon Clan has one…Ok We’ll go and ask them. Won’t work either you’ll need to get a Desna Mark for them to talk to you. You’ll have to go to the Acropolis of the Thrallkeepers and find a stone orb. There you’ll receive a mark. He also suggested the Orc and 1 other person do this, as the Orc needs all the help with every clan he can get if he is not to spoil the parties chances and someone else will have to speak for the party as the Orc is trying to earn enough respect that he will mearly be considered Tshamek and not be killed on sight.
So the party set off to find the Acropolis. We had just begun exploring when our time came to an end.
There will be a bit of a break between this report and the next game. Between a busy weekend next weekend, a vacation on my families part, and then the 4th of July, we will probably not be playing again until the 12th of July.
Until then, game on folks!
The foul beast was indeed a tough customer. I think this encounter has driven a point home. We have reached the time in our adventuring careers when even back up weapons need that minimal +1 to overcome at least the basic damage resistances etc. Shame to waste a dose of good poison on a miss like that. I took the crippling strike ability at level ten, but told Brute it may need to be toned down due to brokeness and I am curious how this will pan out. It seems a little bad on paper, but I am starting to realize that the number of hits I rack up on a single mob is not that many. As a result of a lower to hit + greater than average damage...often I either miss a great deal resulting in 1 to 2 hits per creature/ per fight. Or when I opperate in tandem with one of the other damage dealers (ie: get my flank on) the creature doesn't live long enough to really get diminished all that much. I guess we will see how it plays out over time.
(If I remeber correctly, this isn't a pre-gen'd encounter, it was something Brute hashed together using rumor info, so I will go without spoiler)
1. We need to do Gather Information checks on that dragon(smokeclaw) starting immediately after the arcropolis. I was starting to fade pretty badly by the time we reached the Shoanti , but I had forgotten to mention that.
2. The Celestial Griffon had rolled(on the die) impressive numbers on its first attack run being something along the lines of 19(bite), 17(claw), 18(claw), 18(rake), 16(rake)... with a +13(w/pouncing diving bite) & +10(all 2ndry attacks)... dragon had a 35AC, you do the math. The rolls only got worse from there, a lot worse. While I believe the Griffon might've been useful in any other scenario, he wasn't even a worthwhile distraction in this one, losing approx. 17-25x2 hitpoints a dive(charge) out of 59 total. Fortunately he was within range of the cleric's healing burst twice which made him LOOK tough if nothing else.
I don't fault the Griffon, however I do fault the SUMMONING spells. I, as a SORCERER, have a +11 to hit(+12 in 30') with a bow. Why in the hell would I summon something that has the same or worse attack modifiers as my own character?! I could spend that round casting TrueStrike! I have since opted out of the Monster Summoning V, with the DMs permission and the explanation I used above. Morale of this story: If you don't have the AUGMENT SUMMONING feat, don't bother... your Sorcer/wizard/cleric/druid most likely have a better way to spend a preparation round of spell casting, hell even casting Bless would be better.
3. The Cleric at one point decided I WAS'NT doing my job(out loud), because I slotted out "Dispel Magic" for "Spell Vunerability". As the DM mentioned, without the -10 SR on said dragon, the Dispel Magic WOULDN'T have succeeded.
MY JOB: I'll say it again, I signed on as the party's sorcerer with the intention to do Appraise/Identify, THAT is my job. If I wanted to be an "answer-monkey", I wouldn't have played a Sorcerer. I am however throwing a decent amount of auto-hit/touch-attack damage down range and semi-frequently crit'ing, THIS is also MY job.
Long story short and in the words of Clint Eastwood, "SHUT YOUR FACE!!"
4. Apologies for falling asleep at D&D, but after the TWO lengthy Sredna competitions and then a story of must go here, go there... I was done. Unlike Bloodpig, Sredna is one player vs. one NPC... not a group event, sorry not very exciting for the Sorcerer in the party even if he does have a 14 STR, but I could've summoned a Griffon for him to Sredna with! LOL! (Sredna = Surrender? aka Mercy)
5. CORRECTION: The Rod I mentioned in my last post is actually a "Rod of Substitution", not Transmutation. *apply super glue liberally*
I too have been down the summon road with my last caster, and found it more than a little underwhelming. I dont think that any animal companion/ summon works except the druids to be honesnt. The only real purpose they serve is as damage sumps.
The only real purpose they serve is as damage sumps.
That would be true if they could actually grab aggro, but they cannot.
Brute and I discussed it and came to the conclusion that the summoning lists are off by 1 level. In other words Monster Summoning V's list should be under Monster Summoning IV, etc.
There is no point in summoning a combat "pet/lackey/henchman", if it has the same exact combat stats as the sorcerer/wizard. The difference is that I do a touch attack for 10d6, not 5 attacks totalling 6d6+10; Augment Summoning(+4 STR/+4 CON) makes that quite a bit better(attack & damage), if you're willing to suffer being a summoner/conjurer. As I said above, if you're not spec'd out for summoning, don't bother.
I dont think that any animal companion/ summon works except the druids to be honesnt.
I wouldn't be so sure of that come August. So far from what I've seen of the Druid through Beta they've managed to hate on him and his companion at EVERY turn, primarily on Wild Shape. So now you have a half-assed companion and half-assed wild shape to go with your already half-assed spell list. They should just cut to the chase and say Druids get Entangle & Cure L. Wounds(or Vigor) as a 1st level spell list, lol.
To be honest I havent been reading up on what the final classes will look like...Its a shame that they are nerfing the druid, not like he was abusive ot begin with. Personally I alwasy wanted wild shape to start at first level, with our games usually ending in the low teens, half a campaign to get the one ability I want to play them for is too long.
Yes, I did have my new toys- errrr... minions. Yah, minions. ...in fireball formation. My fault I lost 75% of my new feat in one shot. =S
OTOH, spending 30,000gp in diamonds reviving the lot of them should be good for the fairness & generosity boost. (That's a +4 weapon, or 15 at +1.) Yes, all that for a +1 to Leadership.
Maybe I can get Special Powers & Great Renown out of Brute, too. (Wish me luck.)
As it stands I've got my Cohort, Trinia, ready to ding, & 2 Ranger minions, maximum of 5 because now I have Caused the death of other followers -1 & Moves around a lot -1 dogging me.
(Pauses, waiting for comments about Cruelty -2 & those greaves. Done yet?)
A better use for new minions? Forming a spy network. I should have a bonus to my attempts to gather information by the time we get back to Korvosa. Or just have the highes level follower make rolls for me. Highest level follower gets to be a bard & hang around in Korvosa. The class feature giving all Knowledges would be very useful in sorting out information. Gather Information (Take 20. There's no rush. Just don't get caught.) Skill Focus - Knowledge (Local); elf/halfling get Int +2. More feats as Leadership goes up. Skill Focus - Sense Motive; Skill Focus - Bluff.
Hmmm... they all Take 10, giving +2 each, having 30 of them is not unreasonable, so let's call it a +60 on gather information. Floor plans to the palace? And the sewers underneath? The guard's patrol routes? The color of the Queen's frilly undergarments? (All hail Calistria!)
Recruiting may be done in Korvosa, provided it's not under total martial law lockdown. There are plenty of people who would like to be rid of the Queen, as evidenced by the riots in the first module. If it's too hot there are undoubtedly refugees in nearby towns. And there's always the underworld & shingle runners.
(Speaking of underworld, what happened to that wererat whench? Bet she knows a thing or two. Or not.)
The rangers - I'll keep a few to hold the horses & run important messages. The rest can act a couriers to let me know what's going on in Korvosa before we arrive. Probably won't be gathering too much Information. Stationed in towns or inns on the most likely routes we'll take back into Korvosa. No point in being surprised, after all.
- misc. - Mix of Rogues & Bards & NPC classes - Assisting in the Highest's Gather Info check.
Can probably coodinate through the Calistrian rave network. (Yes, that's right. Heavy techno & glowsticks in parking garages. Or at least bards & sunrods in unused warehouses. Free your mind and your greaves will follow.)
Options:
Amulet of Proof against Detection and Location: Price 35,000 gp; Cost 17,500 gp (Probably only for the spymaster.)
Hat of Disguise: Price 1,800 gp; Cost 900 gp
Cost is included incase I take Craft Wondrous Item.
No No No...you are doing it wrong, your minions shouldnt be Rangers. They should all be bards with perform " Pole Dance "
Geeze do I always have to explain these things......