The sorcerer's primary role in the party is that of an arcane spellcaster. Tack on as many claws and wings as you want, but in the end, the sorcerer is still going to spend most of his time casting spells. Despite that, it seems that many bloodline powers have nothing to do with spells or spellcasting. Most are window dressing that adds lots of cool flavor, but no extra arcane magic.
With that in mind, what about this? Make the sorcerer more like the warlock: replace most bloodline powers with at-will spell-like abilities. The 1st- and 3rd-level powers of each bloodline could be a specific 1st-level spells usable at will, followed by a 2nd-level spell usable at will at 9th level, a 3rd-level spell at 15th level, and a 4th-level spell at 19th level.
For example, here's a warlock-style version of the aberrant bloodline:
Spoiler:
Class Skill: Knowledge (dungeoneering).
Bonus Spells:enlarge person (3rd), see invisibility (5th), tongues (7th), black tentacles (9th), feeblemind (11th), veil (13th), plane shift (15th), mind blank (17th), shapechange (19th).
Bonus Feats: Combat Casting, Improved Disarm, Improved Grapple, Improved Initiative, Improved Unarmed Strike, Iron Will, Silent Spell, Skill Focus (Knowledge [dungeoneering]).
Spell-like Abilities:acid splash (1d6 damage) at will (1st), entropic shield at will (3rd), shatter at will (9th), stinking cloud at will (15th), confusion at will (19th).
Aberrant Form (Ex): At 20th level, your body becomes truly unnatural. You are immune to critical hits and sneak
attacks. In addition, you gain blindsight with a range of 60 feet and damage reduction 5/—.
And here's a warlock-style version of the undead bloodline:
Spoiler:
Class Skill: Knowledge (religion)
Bonus Spells:inflict light wounds (3rd), false life (5th), vampiric touch (7th), animate dead (9th), waves of fatigue (11th), undeath to death (13th), finger of death (15th), horrid wilting (17th), energy drain (19th).
Bonus Feats: Combat Casting, Diehard, Endurance, Iron Will, Skill Focus (Knowledge [religion]), Spell Focus, Still Spell, Toughness.
Spell-like Abilities:chill touch at will (1st), detect undead at will (3rd), ghoul touch at will (9th), vampiric touch at will (15th), contagion at will (19th).
One of Us (Ex): At 20th level, you develop a kinship with the undead. You gain immunity to cold, nonlethal damage, paralysis, and sleep. You also gain DR 5/—. Unintelligent undead do not notice you unless you attack them. You receive a +4 morale bonus on saving throws made against spells and spell-like abilities cast by undead.
This sort of approach would have several benefits:
1) Each bloodline power would directly involve arcane magic, as opposed to incidental abilities.
2) Sorcerers would get several go-to moves to use while conserving spell slots, giving them more options during play.
3) Bloodlines would be easier to balance against one another, since they would each reference existing spells.
4) Bloodlines would require less page count, again because they would each reference existing spells.
5) It would be easier to create new bloodlines, since all bloodlines would fit a simple pattern.
And for those who like claws and wings and such, bloodline-related physical changes could be turned into feats; doing this won't require bloodlines to be removed as the defining feature of the sorcerer class, since new bloodline powers specifically related to arcane magic would continue to exist as sorcerer-only class features.
Despite that, it seems that many bloodline powers have nothing to do with spells or spellcasting. Most are window dressing that adds lots of cool flavor, but no extra arcane magic.
As mentioned on page 42 (Class section, under Sorcerer)
Pathfinder RPG: BETA wrote:
Bloodlines: Each sorcerer has a source of magic somewhere in her heritage that grants her spells, bonus feats, an additional class skill, and other special abilities....
At 3rd level, and every two levels thereafter, a sorcerer learns an additional spell, derived from her bloodline. These spells are in addition to the sorcerer’s list of spells known
So every bloodline adds nine additional spells to those already known by the Sorcerer. Plus the Arcane Bloodline adds quite a lot to magic with it's powers. How is that not extra magic?
So every bloodline adds nine additional spells to those already known by the Sorcerer.
That's why I mention bonus spells in the OP (see both spoilers). I'm talking about changing the "bloodline powers" section of each bloodline to be more spell-like. Bonus spells (and bonus feats and class skills) aren't part of the "bloodline powers" section.
Max Money wrote:
Plus the Arcane Bloodline adds quite a lot to magic with it's powers.
They should all add a lot to magic. Focusing on arcane spells shouldn't be an optional thing for the sorcerer; it should be the entire point of the class.
EDIT: For every other class in PRPG, changes were made to make the class better at the role it was intended to fill in the 3.5 rules. Then we get to the sorcerer, the only class from 3.5 that didn't live up to its potential in its stated role, and what are we doing? Declaring that there's no point in making the sorcerer better at what he was supposed to be doing and just finding a new job for him.
If you read the preview articles written about the sorcerer in the lead up to 3rd Edition, the intent of the class is clearly stated: he's a blaster. He trades versatility for the ability to hit you again and again and again.
Unfortunately, as anyone who's played the warlock can tell you, a class designed to fill the sorcerer's role should have been designed more like the warlock from the start. Now, we finally have a chance to retrofit the sorcerer with the capabilities necessary to fill the role he was intended to fill. And no one wants to do it!
It seems that everyone else is saying that the role the sorcerer was supposed to fill was broken because he wasn't successful in filling that role. But the role isn't broken; the class is! Let's fix the sorcerer by making him the best blaster he can be, not by giving up on making a blaster altogether.
Since Jason wants to change up the Sorcerer to differentiate their arcane contributions from the Wizard, I'd have no problems with the Sorcerer borrowing a bit more from the Warlock. I always felt like the Warlock was a neat idea yet could have been implemented better. Plus their emphasis on all the dark, spooky, evil flavor felt kind of limiting.
Likewise, it's always struck me as odd that the Sorcerer's spellcasting lags by one level and that they seemingly had to be descended from dragons or some such. The PfRPG take on the flavor of bloodlines (er, not like that) is much more satisfying.
I like this solution. From a design perspective, it is cleaner than the current version of the sorcerer bloodlines. It remains true to the concept of the sorcerer in the 3.5 rules but clearly differentiates the sorcerer class from the wizard class.
I'm don't really like the direction this takes it. I would prefer a system where the sorcerer would get several abilities that somewhat unique. Having a spell as an at at-will spell-like ability doesn't feel unique enough to me. Something like the warlock's other non-spell-like abilities.
My innitial "knee jerk" is now over, and I'm thinking this idea has potential.
Borrowing from the Warlock class, might in fact give the Sorcerer the distinctiveness that has been missing (not to mention it solves the problem of having to homebrew a pathfinder version of the Warlock).
In addition it allows the option of percieving the Bloodline as a "pact" made with otherwordly forces, just as easily as an inherited bloodline.
If I were taking inspiration from the warlock, I wouldn't give the sorcerer a bunch of unlimited-use spell-likes, I'd give him a bunch of add-on powers to his spells (which could then be invoked easily enough with his unlimited-use cantrips).
I don't think I agree with the specific implementation, but I do think that the sorcerer-as-a-little-more-warlock is a good idea. Wizards and sorcerers are too similar in 3.5e, and the warlock is a little too 'out there' for a lot of traditionalists, so a good compromise is to have the sorcerer take on a warlocky role but more like conventional spellcasting.
I think that the current PF implementation is pretty close to this already. The sorcerer in our PF beta campaign is sure doing a lot of at-will zapping...
I don't think I agree with the specific implementation, but I do think that the sorcerer-as-a-little-more-warlock is a good idea. Wizards and sorcerers are too similar in 3.5e, and the warlock is a little too 'out there' for a lot of traditionalists, so a good compromise is to have the sorcerer take on a warlocky role but more like conventional spellcasting.
I think that the current PF implementation is pretty close to this already. The sorcerer in our PF beta campaign is sure doing a lot of at-will zapping...
I agree that there is not much differentiation between the Sorcerer and the Wizard and I just thought of this idea while reading these other replies here.
How about using a bit of the Cleric Channeling idea with Forgotten Realms Spellfire idea (I know trademark/ copywrite stuff here) ...
Allow the Sorcerer to expend a spell slot to cast a bolt/ cone/ ray/ whatever of arcane energy dealing 1d6 damage per spell slot level with a save DC equal to the level of the spell used in this fashion. Example: a Sorcerer expends a 2nd level spell slot to cast a ray of arcane energy dealing 2d6 points of damage with a Reflex save of 10 +2 (the level of the spell) + Cha mod. Or make it a ranged touch attack with no save or spell resistance and have it instead deal 1d4 per spell level expended.
Most of the Bloodlines give some kind of "at will" blast ability, so If the Sorcerer can expend spell slots to bump the damage a limited number of times per day, that would be workable.
I'm also looking at doing the whole "invocations" as replacements to bloodline power.
Looking at doing...
3rd level: least
9th level: Lesser
15th level: Greater
19th level: Dark
I'm actually really liking the idea of rolling Sorcerer and Warlock into one.
