The Bonus spell is gained a level or 2 after the Sorceror first learns a spell of that level.
What if the Sorceror wants to memorize their bonus Spell as their normal spell of that level?
(they like it and want to use it as soon as they can)
Would they be able to gain a different Bonus spell?
Or be able to 're-learn' the spell slot of the original when they gain the bonus spell?
(since you're not supposed to EVER be able to change the Bonus spell later)
The standard spell re-learning rules (while helpful, overall) don't help with this situation because,
besides being limited opportunities that are meant for swapping your regular spells,
they don't apply to the 2 highest spell levels.
bump?
The Bonus spell is gained a level or 2 after the Sorceror first learns a spell of that level.
What if the Sorceror wants to memorize their bonus Spell as their normal spell of that level?
(they like it and want to use it as soon as they can)Would they be able to gain a different Bonus spell?
Or be able to 're-learn' the spell slot of the original when they gain the bonus spell?
(since you're not supposed to EVER be able to change the Bonus spell later)The standard spell re-learning rules (while helpful, overall) don't help with this situation because,
besides being limited opportunities that are meant for swapping your regular spells,
they don't apply to the 2 highest spell levels.
I am lost here. Sorcs do not mesmerize spells . They know it or they do not. The bouns spells you gain from a bloodline is on top of those your normal gain.
The Bonus spell is gained a level or 2 after the Sorceror first learns a spell of that level.
What if the Sorceror wants to memorize their bonus Spell as their normal spell of that level?
As far as I can tell if you learn your bonus spell you have to retrain that slot later... which means you go a level shy a spell known for a level which sucks a bit. It also means your next retraining is dedicated to fixing that issue. My house rule is "If you already know your bloodline bonus spell you can select any spell from the sorcerer spell list instead".
Yeah, for now I think alot of things in Beta are "house-rule-required"
in order to play-test without getting caught up on one part.
This might almost seem a corner case, except that people are already complaining about 1 level lag to learn new Spell Levels at. Having to tack on 1 or 2 more levels on TOP of that before you can gain access to a spell that's also a Bloodline Spell, just so you don't run afoul of this issue, really makes this a "must-fix" issue.
Yeah, for now I think alot of things in Beta are "house-rule-required"
in order to play-test without getting caught up on one part.This might almost seem a corner case, except that people are already complaining about 1 level lag to learn new Spell Levels at. Having to tack on 1 or 2 more levels on TOP of that before you can gain access to a spell that's also a Bloodline Spell, just so you don't run afoul of this issue, really makes this a "must-fix" issue.
I agree, one classic example is mage armor at 1st level then getting it as a bonus at 3rd and having to retrain at 4th.
AND (this is the kicker) you CAN'T retrain it until you're 6TH LEVEL,
since the retraining rule explicitly says it only works on spells 2 Levels LOWER than your MAX Spell Level.
(enjoy 3 levels with 2 of your known spells being the SAME!?!?)
So I think we can safely say that spell training is NOT intended to deal with this scenario :-)
re: your house-rule, I'd prefer re-training the original non-Bloodline Spell Slot (non-standard retraining),
because it ensures that all Sorcerors have the same Bonus Spells based on Bloodline (the apparent intent).
Otherwise, after 'learning' the normal Bloodline Spell and choosing their own "Bloodline Spell", they can re-train the normal Spellslot into something else later, and have NONE of their known spells (regular/ Bloodline) cover the Bloodline Spell.
Hrm... I hate having to make rules that are lawyer tight. I'll leave it up to the rules lawyers to spell it out best. The point I'm trying to make is clear though. (I agree that the wording I put up is probably not the best).
So, what we need here is a sentence added to the section, along the lines of:
If you already know a spell when you receive it from your bloodline, immediately choose a new spell of the same level to replace it on your normal spells known list, to bring yourself up to the normal number of unique spells known.
Something like that would do it.
It could even be a bit shorter, dropping the "normal numbers of spells" bit.
Here's a better fix give the sorcerers their bloodline spells one level before they learn non-bloodline spells and move the first bonus spell to first level. It would require a slight change to their spell progression... namely adding a 1 at the end of every row.
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Another idea would be to grab the fix from the Ranger class. In 3.5 a ranger who selected 2-weapon fighting at 1st level was out a feat at 2nd. So they had to wait a level to 2 weap fight or they had to lose a feat choice. The Pathfinder solution was to make a list of choices at 2nd level, ie two weapon fighting, two weapon defense, etc.
Why not just add 2 or 3 spells to the list and let the sorcerer choose 1. Then they can still get a bonus spell and you don't have to come up with a lengthy rule on what happens if they want one or two of them early.