With the removal of Concentration, Spellcraft becomes a necessary skill for the Sorcerer to max. If he doesn't take it, he won't be able to cast defensively, and any goblin with a readied action can interrupt his spells with a bowshot. Now, while my preference would be to return Concentration (since removing it a) screws up Pathfinder's backwards compatibility with both the Expanded Psionics Handbook and the Tome of Battle, and b) means you can't have a sorcerer who doesn't understand the minutia of how his spells work without seriously underpowering yourself), in lieu of that, I think it is necessary to let the Sorcerer apply his Charisma modifier to spellcraft checks (though he still has to use his Intelligence modifier when deciphering magical writing and so one). This could be accomplished with a new class feature at 1st level:
Intuitive Understanding: Magic strikes a concordant note with your soul, and you "get" it like a musical savant might "get" a piano. You may add your Charisma modifier to Spellcraft checks instead of your Intelligence modifier. You must use your Intelligence modifier when making spellcraft checks involving magical writing.
I like idea, but make it a feat, not just an ability, i think players should have to pay a slot to make their sorcerer "savant like" , I have no problem with the "all my eggs in one (ability score)basket" idea, but in every other case (weapon finesse, intimidating prowess, mind over matter, ect) a feat was used to require an investment of recources, to get the focus.
I don't think it should be a feat. PRPG has, through the "consolidation" of skills, seriously screwed both the cleric AND the sorc in the use of concentration. (i.e. everyone bumps con, not everyone bumps Int).
This needs to be a class ability for -every- primary spell class: that of using their associated spell casting ability modifier to cast spells defensively.
-S
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i do not agree
i don't see sorcerers as bumping their constitution
spellcraft is about understanding, but i can understand while casting a spell is about not only the physical progress, the arcane lore and the strenght of mind
instead of using either concentration or spellcraft i would like to see arule where the bonus to a roll to keep a spell would be the spellcaster spellcasting level (yes i would add sorcerer and wizard or cleric toguether, is about the experience, you have the knowledge and pwoer obtaiend from more than one class, so why won't it work?) + Favored attribut mod (clerics and druids = wisdom, sorcerer = charisma, wizards = intelligence] + any miscelaneous modifies like feats or other things
why this? this way no one is affected by a lack orsurplus of certain skill different than that which their classes prefers o requieres, also as "combat casting" and similar feats only serve when using them in this kind of roll the conversion should be easy enough
and yes... unfortunately those feats that add to spellcraft any way of the other would be useless to keeping one's concentration
one should pay for flexibility
I sympathize with the Original Poster, especially since CON is now a solid secondary stat for Sorcerors...
But if you do this for Sorcerors, why not Clerics as well? Personally, I don't see a problem with saying Spellcraft is a certain intellectual comprehension of Magic, that happens to coincide with the main stat for how Wizards approach magic. And not everybody bumped their CON. DEX was probably a more useful defensive Stat than CON.
I don't have much more to say on this, though, since I'm probably more interested in changing how Defensive Casting/ Interrupts vs. Spellcraft work.
There is an optional rule in the ELH that offers all casters the choice of using their primary spell casting attribute, in place of intelligence. We've played with this rule for years and it works fine.
Peace,
tfad
Not every class should be able to do everything equally well. If sorcerers are more "free form" casters, it doesn't bother me at all that they might not be as good at focusing and utilizing spellcraft to cast their spells as a wizard would be.
I'm not opposed to an "Intuitive Knowledge" feat that allows the sorcerer to substitute his Charisma, though, because that is exactly what feats are suppose to be for.
Not every class should be able to do everything equally well.
Sure. But it doesn't make sense that Wizards, who cast their spells like math problems, are less easily distracted than Sorcerers, for whom casting spells is like singing or moving their hands.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Not every class should be able to do everything equally well.Sure. But it doesn't make sense that Wizards, who cast their spells like math problems, are less easily distracted than Sorcerers, for whom casting spells is like singing or moving their hands.
Assuming that your statement is true, why does this support your case? It seems that you are suggesting that singing and moving your hands is easier to do under stress than a math problem, which I don't agree with. I know I can barely sing without distractions, but I can do math in my head no problem.
I still think that this whole argument about what skill to use for concentration checks and what ability score to use to modify it should simply go away and that there should be a whole new mechanic for defensive casting/spell disruption than a skill based one.
I'd be just as happy to get rid of casting defensively altogether.
Assuming that your statement is true, why does this support your case? It seems that you are suggesting that singing and moving your hands is easier to do under stress than a math problem, which I don't agree with. I know I can barely sing without distractions, but I can do math in my head no problem.
Perhaps it was a bad analogy. I know I can do intuitive things under stress better than intellectual things.
In any case, I agree that I'd be fine with removing casting on the defensive and/or moving the whole system to something other than skills, since no matter how you cut it, it's going to be necessary for casters to take it. But if that's the case, we need to wait until the Skills board to talk about it.
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I still think that this whole argument about what skill to use for concentration checks and what ability score to use to modify it should simply go away and that there should be a whole new mechanic for defensive casting/spell disruption than a skill based one.
i agree we need a new mechanic based on Caster level instead of skill
just like spell penetration|
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I still think that this whole argument about what skill to use for concentration checks and what ability score to use to modify it should simply go away and that there should be a whole new mechanic for defensive casting/spell disruption than a skill based one.i agree we need a new mechanic based on Caster level instead of skill
just like spell penetration
Mechanics involving caster level checks just nerfs Paladins and Rangers. Please no caster levels checks please...
Well AC's that require full bab to hit nerf arcane magic users! (I do NOT really mean that, I'm joking)
I think a concentration mechanic based off caster level isn't such a bad idea. However I also think that palies and rangers should have full caster level or caster level = class level -3. Just me though.