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Has anyone developed some sort of system for an armored individual to step in and protect a teammate?
In my group, I have tried different mechanics for the fighters to take on the role of protectors in stead of just armored killing machines:
My latest idea was to make a maneuver, where a fighter or some other tough individual could move up and share a square with a weaker ally. The 'Protector' can then designate one enemy, and stay between this enemy and the 'Protectee'. That way, the designated enemy cannot make melee attacks against the protectee. If either of the two allies move out of their common square, the protection is broken. Neither of the two allies can take more than a standard action each round while the protection takes place.
I also decided that both protector and protectee are considered to be in melee when it comes to ranged attacks against them.
As stated, I find it important that the Fighter has a way of protecting his group and be more than a walking tin can.
If anyone else has a decent system at hand, or could offer some constructive advice for this system, I would appreciate it greatly.
Well I wouldn't personally make it a combat maneuver, if anything I'd make it a feat so that it isn't open to just everyone. Secondly this sounds more like a class feature than anything else, it reminds me of the Devoted bodyguard PrC, so you may either want to make it a class feature of your fighters or persuade fighters to dip the PrC...
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My desire to tie thing together with pretty bows makes me want to somehow tie this to the Aid Other action, perhaps allowing a Fighter or Paladin with the appropriate feat (or taking the appropriate penalty to his own attacks) to use the Aid Other action as a move action, allowing him to 'Fight Protectively' making a standard action attack with his weapon, while devoting his move action to giving a nearby ally a bonus to their AC.
Perhaps anyone could do this, at a -4 or -5 Attack penalty, but with a Feat, it becomes no penalty (the 'penalty' being that the Fighter type is limited to a standard action for attack, and not getting a full attack). It might also be a class option for Fighters and Paladins at some level, allowing them to get it without blowing a normal feat.
In my group, I have tried different mechanics for the fighters to take on the role of protectors in stead of just armored killing machines:
My latest idea was to make a maneuver, where a fighter or some other tough individual could move up and share a square with a weaker ally. The 'Protector' can then designate one enemy, and stay between this enemy and the 'Protectee'. That way, the designated enemy cannot make melee attacks against the protectee. If either of the two allies move out of their common square, the protection is broken. Neither of the two allies can take more than a standard action each round while the protection takes place.
I like this. I would VERY much like to see a feat that does this; right now, the fighter's inability to protect teammates is nothing short of shameful. One draft I'd written and posted elsewhere focused on intercepting assailants:
Intercepting Step (Combat)
Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Bull Rush, Mobility
Benefit: You may choose to move up to your normal movement speed as an immediate action in response to an enemy's movement. This movement counts as one of your attacks of opportunity for the round (but does not count against your normal movement), and must place you in a square along the enemy's line of movement (if you cannot reach such a square, you cannot use this feat). This movement forces the moving enemy to stop in the square in front of the one you now occupy. Alternatively, the enemy can attempt to bull rush or overrun you (at +2 to the normal DC) to continue movement, but this provokes an attack of opportunity from you.
An alternative feat that lets you stand still and bodyguard someone would be awesome. The furtherst I got with that was something like this:
Shield Ward (Combat)
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency
Benefit: You may choose to apply your shield bonus to AC to one ally in an adjacent square, in addition to yourself. This active protection counts as an attack of opportunity on your part.
Shield Ward, Improved (Combat)
Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes, Shield Proficiency, Shield Ward
Benefit: When actively using a shield for defense, you may choose to apply your shield bonus to AC to all allies in adjacent squares, in addition to yourself. Each ally protected counts as one attack of opportunity against the total number you can make in a round.
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Has anyone developed some sort of system for an armored individual to step in and protect a teammate?
Gygax did. It was called "AD&D". Designers would be well served to study how the 3X guys screwed up the battlefield dynamic with the "standard/move action" mechanic...
(Sorry, that wasn't exactly constructive, just a long standing rant of mine...)
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There are some options in the splat books.
In the Miniatures handbook there is a feat Shield mate and improved shield mate which allow your shield to grant a bonus to adjacent allies.
The knight in Players handbook 2 has the Shield Ally ability at level 6 which allows them to take half damage for an adjacent ally, changing to all damage at 14th level.
The knight also hinders passage by making all squares they threaten difficult ground for a creature starting in a threatened square. This also stops 5ft steps I believe as the ground is considered difficult.
You could always house rule any of the knight abilities as feats a fighter might take.
Another feat I considered was the Block feat:
This feat allows a character to attempt to stop a creature passing through a threatened square. When movement triggers an attack of opportunity you may make an immediate opposed strength check (or strength vs dexterity). If you succeed you stop the creature from moving further with that action.
You could always house rule any of the knight abilities as feats a fighter might take.
Already done!
Another feat I considered was the Block feat:This feat allows a character to attempt to stop a creature passing through a threatened square. When movement triggers an attack of opportunity you may make an immediate opposed strength check (or strength vs dexterity). If you succeed you stop the creature from moving further with that action.
This is similar to a 3.5e version of my Intercepting Step idea, but far more limited because of the inability to move, which means people can just walk past you 10 ft. away and there's really not much you can do about it. If Intercepting Step is too much, I suppose it could be split into 2 feats... (tries not to cry).
Not usally a problem in our group due to five words
Ready Action - Standard Action Charge
Not usally a problem in our group due to five words
"Ready Action - Standard Action Charge"
That doesn't quite work for me, because unless you successfully make a trip or grapple as your charge attack (very difficult with the new CMB rules that stack the odds for the defender) it doesn't stop your enemy from continuing their movement and killing your poor squishy sorcerer.
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Thanks so far for the input.
My reasoning behind the way I do it at the moment (Read OP if in doubt) is that in a real life fight(*), it is relatively easy to get between an ally and an enemy and stay there. Sure, You risk getting clobbered, but you will still protect your buddy from the clobberer. That is why I chose to allow a protector to designate a single enemy and stay between that enemy and his ally.
The way I see it, anyone could do this in theory. Even a soft-skinned mage could step in front of his dying armadillo-plated friend to protect him, although it would probably be a short lived protection.
I think it should be possible to do this without taking a bunch of prestige classes and feats. In my opinion, that is what a Fighter is there for. Nobody in their right mind would willingly attack a fighter in a full plate armor carrying a heavy shield, when there is a half naked sorceress nearby flinging fiery death at her enemies. Not unless they had to attack him to get to the caster.
I like the thought of the classical party with the fighter who protects the others, the mage who blasts and solves problems of a magical nature, the cleric who heals and keeps morale high and the rogue who picks locks, bluffs stupid ogres and steals from his friends when they're not looking. With a little help, the fighter might actually get to fill this role
(*)
Right. I will admit that my real life melee experience is rather limited, but I mean, how hard can it be to stay between a friend and an enemy when you have a sword to poke him with.
My reasoning behind the way I do it at the moment (Read OP if in doubt) is that in a real life fight(*), it is relatively easy to get between an ally and an enemy and stay there. Sure, You risk getting clobbered, but you will still protect your buddy from the clobberer.
It's relatively easy with one ally and one enemy. More than one ally, not so good. More than one enemy, and you're better off ditching your protectee and chasing off and clobbering the enemies, and just hope that yet another enemy doesn't sneak in while you're distracted and do in your ward.
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It's relatively easy with one ally and one enemy. More than one ally, not so good. More than one enemy, and you're better off ditching your protectee and chasing off and clobbering the enemies, and just hope that yet another enemy doesn't sneak in while you're distracted and do in your ward.
Aye, I completely agree. This system is thought up in order for the benevolent protector to protect a single ally from a single enemy.
Perhaps it could be augmented with feats, so the protector could protect an extra adjacent ally. I haven't put much thought into this yet.
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there was a prestigue class in "sword and fist" it was a type of bodyguard has inteersting mechanics to take part or all damaged agaisnt his chosen ward
Edit:
the name is Devoted Defender, it had the follwing abilities:
Harm's way: when you are within 5 feets of your ward and she is attacked you can change places with her, this should be chosen before the roll is amde, you can only make this once per round
Defensive strike: you make attacks of opportunity vs those who attack your ward, you get +1 per 2 levels in the class
Deflect attack: being withing 5 feet, 1 per round the devoted defender will try to defelct one incoming attack vs their charge (must have a shield or melee weapon), every round you can make a reflex save vs 20 to defelct such an attack (magic weapons increase the DC by their weapon bonus), it goes from +1 to +4, and if the reflex works well its a free action
I agree there is a niche there the fighter isn't occupying but should be able to, and it is easily fixable. Personally I like the idea of a series of feats that allow the fighter to mix in some of the class features such as the Devoted defenders or even the knights, and that's how I think I'd do it, leaving the fighter open to build his or herself as they wanted, protector or weapon master, or a little bit of both. Could be some good fighter love that way...
I agree there is a niche there the fighter isn't occupying but should be able to, and it is easily fixable. Personally I like the idea of a series of feats that allow the fighter to mix in some of the class features such as the Devoted defenders or even the knights, and that's how I think I'd do it, leaving the fighter open to build his or herself as they wanted, protector or weapon master, or a little bit of both. Could be some good fighter love that way...
Yes, that's exactly the direction I've been headed. With a large enough selection of feats, the fighter could easily supercede the Samurai, Knight, Devoted Defender, Duelist, Reaping Mauler, etc., etc.
In my group, I have tried different mechanics for the fighters to take on the role of protectors in stead of just armored killing machines:
My latest idea was to make a maneuver, where a fighter or some other tough individual could move up and share a square with a weaker ally. The 'Protector' can then designate one enemy, and stay between this enemy and the 'Protectee'. That way, the designated enemy cannot make melee attacks against the protectee. If either of the two allies move out of their common square, the protection is broken. Neither of the two allies can take more than a standard action each round while the protection takes place.I like this. I would VERY much like to see a feat that does this; right now, the fighter's inability to protect teammates is nothing short of shameful. One draft I'd written and posted elsewhere focused on intercepting assailants:
Intercepting Step (Combat)
Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Bull Rush, Mobility
Benefit: You may choose to move up to your normal movement speed as an immediate action in response to an enemy's movement. This movement counts as one of your attacks of opportunity for the round (but does not count against your normal movement), and must place you in a square along the enemy's line of movement (if you cannot reach such a square, you cannot use this feat). This movement forces the moving enemy to stop in the square in front of the one you now occupy. Alternatively, the enemy can attempt to bull rush or overrun you (at +2 to the normal DC) to continue movement, but this provokes an attack of opportunity from you.An alternative feat that lets you stand still and bodyguard someone would be awesome. The furtherst I got with that was something like this:
Shield Ward (Combat)
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency
Benefit: You may choose to apply your shield bonus to AC to one ally in an adjacent square, in addition to yourself. This active protection counts as an attack of opportunity on...
Good ideas. I like using bull-rush or shield as a possible defense, rather than the b@#&~!+# *The monster MUST attack me* mechanics in other games. Right now, I'm already letting people hold their actions to use bull rush to intercept the movement of others.
I wouldn't mind a taunt mechanic being tied into the intimidate skill, as long as it's optional for the monster to attack you. Mostly, I'd handle something like this with RP.
That being said, I wouldn't mind ta
there was a prestigue class in "sword and fist" it was a type of bodyguard has inteersting mechanics to take part or all damaged agaisnt his chosen ward
Edit:
the name is Devoted Defender, it had the follwing abilities:
Harm's way: when you are within 5 feets of your ward and she is attacked you can change places with her, this should be chosen before the roll is amde, you can only make this once per round
Defensive strike: you make attacks of opportunity vs those who attack your ward, you get +1 per 2 levels in the class
Deflect attack: being withing 5 feet, 1 per round the devoted defender will try to defelct one incoming attack vs their charge (must have a shield or melee weapon), every round you can make a reflex save vs 20 to defelct such an attack (magic weapons increase the DC by their weapon bonus), it goes from +1 to +4, and if the reflex works well its a free action
Devoted Defense is a 3.0 mundane class. As such, its early release is a solid indicator they didn't really know what they were doing when they created it, and it shows.
You get your one a round block it with your face, your AoOs when someone attacks your charge, and your one a round parry as a Reflex save within the first two or three levels. Then after that you just get minor little bonuses to the parry Reflex save, and your AoO attack roll. So basically you burn feats on junk like Alertness, get everything it has to offer in a two level dip, then move on to the next inevitably front loaded melee class. Not to mention since every single class feature requires you to be standing right next to your charge and in one case requires you to hold a melee weapon, this means you can't actually do anything to the enemy (attack) unless you either move away from your charge (negating your class features, since you cannot use them), or your charge stands right next to the enemy (in which case they are exposed to more danger than you protect them from).
Now consider the ones most likely to need a charge would rather either be well away from melee, or on the opposite side of you with an enemy in between... Yeah. So it ends up being decent cohort bait, but as a PC? Unless you don't mind being subservient to another party member and not doing much on your own...
Now, take a guess as to what I use for a cohort. I'd never recommend it for a PC, because the player will be bored as hell.