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This is something I have wondered in the past, but an NPC never stuck around long enough for it to be an issue. However, Laori Vaus is around for a few significant encounters, and the XP gained from them was also significant. My gut is telling me that she should get a cut from the combats she participated in, but I want to make sure. Under the spoiler is the experience I have tracked, calculated using the Pathfinder Beta rules.
Korvosa - Old Korvosa - The Artist's Lair
Dealt with Laori Vaus peacefully and entered into an alliance with her: 9,600
Defeated the disgusting otyughs: 3,600
Sub Total: 13,200
Korvosa - Old Korvosa - Old Dock Streets
Sent the first mob running with illusory otyughs: 4,800
Turned the second mob into barbecue: 4,800
Sub Total: 9,600
Korvosa - Old Korvosa - Pilt's Palace
Beat the Shinglesnipes at Blood Pig: 6,400
Fought the Emperor's Captains and the gnome executioner, along with catching up to Pilts and finishing him off: 38,400
Killed the four brutish chokers: 4,800
Rescued Salvator Scream and learned all he knew about Neolandus and Vencarlo: 4,800
Sub Total: 54,400
The total of all that experience is 77,200. Divided five ways (not including Laori) would be 15,440 per character, which would bring each of them to 8th, and about 5,000 each away from 9th. If Laori is included in experience divisions (all of the above except for the 14,400 that allying with her and rescuing Salvator entailed), then each character would get 13,346 instead. Still enough to level them, easily, but they would then be about 7,000 each from level 9 instead of 5,000.
It isn't *that* huge of a difference, and I am fairly certain that Laori should be included in the calculations, but just wanted to double check. Thanks!
Allies do most certainly sap experience points. And cohorts and followers for some reason do not. I think hirelings were on the "not" side too. I guess the point is that you always pay somehow.
(And if you got allies, you should get the DM to add enemies ;)
Creative Director
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Personally... I think having NPC allies sap away experience is kinda lame. Laori and other NPCs we add to adventure paths who are expected to ally with PCs are usually in there as much as for story purposes and roleplay purposes as they are to aid PCs. I'd suggest that you don't allow the NPC to gain XP. If they're going to accompany a group for a long time, I'd keep them leveled up equal to the average party level and not worry about it. If you find that having an NPC ally with the PCs makes battles too simple... adding monsters is the best way to handle it (or just have the NPC go away for a bit if the story is okay with that).
If you DO want to have them sap XP, of course, keep an eye on the PCs' levels and the expected levels of the adventure, and if the PCs are lower level than they should be, that's time to send them on a side quest to get back in place.
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Well Ztyx, normally I'd agree, but when the Mr. Jacobs tells me that the extra XP is intended, then I have to trust his word as law. :) I'm sure my players will enjoy the extra 2K or so xp each.
As there are five of them, they MIGHT hit 10th level by the end of this adventure, but if they do not then they will be pretty close. That seems to be in line with where the adventure expects 4 PCs to be at.
Hehe.
Well, you could always remove the 2k to follow the rules, then add another 2k to the roleplaying xp, because surely there are more opportunities to hand out those with a full-time companion. Tomato, tomato :p
Hehe.
Well, you could always remove the 2k to follow the rules, then add another 2k to the roleplaying xp, because surely there are more opportunities to hand out those with a full-time companion. Tomato, tomato :p
That is a good point. I'm guilty of neglecting to give XP for good roleplaying.
I also hate it when my group purposely leaves NPCs behind because as players they are concerned about XP drain.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
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I also hate it when my group purposely leaves NPCs behind because as players they are concerned about XP drain.Yeah... that in and of itself is the best reason to not let NPCs suck away XP. The PCs should never feel that they have to sacrifice story and world building.
You should also hit them with the Metagaming hammer!!!
Personally I just factor in npcs to the overall and either add enough enemies to counterbalance the npc or I adjucate the challenge to be less, not so much sapping xp as ad-hoc weakening the encounter. I do this because if the encounter is harder due to environment in the enemies favor or traps and the like you add extra xp, so I adjucate that the challenge is less with help. Earlier I played under a rookie Dm (who is doing a great job despite having little faith in herself) and shes running a pre made to get the feel for things (Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde) and we used Diplomacy to get the Maug or whatever to help us fight the Howler. Made the CR3 encounter a cake walk when we had a CR3 on our side so the encounter became a much smaller encounter. But thats just me. If the npc needs to be there for story then I make it work xp wise with the adjucation of overpowered Baddie or minions to occupy the npc, etc.
Personally I just factor in npcs to the overall and either add enough enemies to counterbalance the npc or I adjucate the challenge to be less, not so much sapping xp as ad-hoc weakening the encounter. I do this because if the encounter is harder due to environment in the enemies favor or traps and the like you add extra xp, so I adjucate that the challenge is less with help. Earlier I played under a rookie Dm (who is doing a great job despite having little faith in herself) and shes running a pre made to get the feel for things (Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde) and we used Diplomacy to get the Maug or whatever to help us fight the Howler. Made the CR3 encounter a cake walk when we had a CR3 on our side so the encounter became a much smaller encounter. But thats just me. If the npc needs to be there for story then I make it work xp wise with the adjucation of overpowered Baddie or minions to occupy the npc, etc.
So, in essence, your PCs might as well make no friends whatsoever, because the world will always scale to nullify their efforts? "Hm... You know, Joe, I could get to know you and eventually trust you. I could risk an ambush or a betrayal from you. But I have no incentive to take that risk: no matter what I do or don't do, it never makes my life any easier. And then there's the fact that you have all of this nice stuff. Still, you look like a good sort, Joe. I'll make it quick."
Sounds very 1e to me!
Seriously, that would be a game-breaker for me: interacting with the world has risks so there should be corresponding rewards.
Personally I just factor in npcs to the overall and either add enough enemies to counterbalance the npc or I adjucate the challenge to be less, not so much sapping xp as ad-hoc weakening the encounter. I do this because if the encounter is harder due to environment in the enemies favor or traps and the like you add extra xp, so I adjucate that the challenge is less with help. Earlier I played under a rookie Dm (who is doing a great job despite having little faith in herself) and shes running a pre made to get the feel for things (Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde) and we used Diplomacy to get the Maug or whatever to help us fight the Howler. Made the CR3 encounter a cake walk when we had a CR3 on our side so the encounter became a much smaller encounter. But thats just me. If the npc needs to be there for story then I make it work xp wise with the adjucation of overpowered Baddie or minions to occupy the npc, etc.So, in essence, your PCs might as well make no friends whatsoever, because the world will always scale to nullify their efforts? "Hm... You know, Joe, I could get to know you and eventually trust you. I could risk an ambush or a betrayal from you. But I have no incentive to take that risk: no matter what I do or don't do, it never makes my life any easier. And then there's the fact that you have all of this nice stuff. Still, you look like a good sort, Joe. I'll make it quick."
Sounds very 1e to me!
Seriously, that would be a game-breaker for me: interacting with the world has risks so there should be corresponding rewards.
I guess you could look at it that way, the key though is that if done properly the players never know that the encounter is scaled appropriately, it just feels like it was supposed to be a big combat or harder or easier or whatever, and lets the story drive things not levels and such. If it does become all about xp and treasure it loses my interest as adjucator and storyteller and at that point I would just hang it up. As such I make everything work and it flows fine, and my players enjoy the fact that combats feel real and "even". But to each his own.