It is fortunate that the Monk, Bard and Rogue are grouped together for this leg of the playtest. The Rogue's party role is pretty well defined, but the Monk and Bard have always seemed fractious— as though they were combination of other class roles.
Before the hundred odd conversations begin where all the playtesters argue over what the roles of these two classes are, I think we need consensus as a group. I am especially curious to see design goals set out by Paizo staff... I have heard good reasoning on the issue of the monk before from Mr. Bulmahn, but I am unable to locate it now when it is most needed.
The problem with playtesting classes that are less straight forward than the Martial, Arcane, or Divine classes is that it is very difficult to tell if the problem is the rules, or are you playing the character wrong? It's very simple to tell when the fighter isn't effective in melee combat. When the monk fails in melee combat, is that the fault of the rules, or are we asking the monk to do something they weren't intended to do?
An open question for playtesters and designers alike: What are the mission statements of the Bard and Monk? When do we know if the class is functioning as intended? What are the issues that, once fixed, we will then know we can close the book on these classes and move on?
It is fortunate that the Monk, Bard and Rogue are grouped together for this leg of the playtest. The Rogue's party role is pretty well defined, but the Monk and Bard have always seemed fractious— as though they were combination of other class roles.
Before the hundred odd conversations begin where all the playtesters argue over what the roles of these two classes are, I think we need consensus as a group. I am especially curious to see design goals set out by Paizo staff... I have heard good reasoning on the issue of the monk before from Mr. Bulmahn, but I am unable to locate it now when it is most needed.
The problem with playtesting classes that are less straight forward than the Martial, Arcane, or Divine classes is that it is very difficult to tell if the problem is the rules, or are you playing the character wrong? It's very simple to tell when the fighter isn't effective in melee combat. When the monk fails in melee combat, is that the fault of the rules, or are we asking the monk to do something they weren't intended to do?
An open question for playtesters and designers alike: What are the mission statements of the Bard and Monk? When do we know if the class is functioning as intended? What are the issues that, once fixed, we will then know we can close the book on these classes and move on?
The monk:
I would like my monk to roughly resemble Wang Yu or Jackie Chan. Able to do amazing stunts, and to get around in ways that would leave other less capable characters tripping over their own feet. The monk is about training the body to the limits of what it can accomplish. Think free running/parkour, mixed with a bit of kung fu, at least up to level 10. After that, I am up for gratuitous amounts of wire-fu tricks. Show me some wall bouncing and wall running. Even folks in the real world can do this stuff, and PFRPG is fantasy.
I would like them to be able to use some weapons, and be reasonably good with them in ways that other characters which specialize in using weapons cannot be. This means that I think that monk tricks should not solely rely upon the monk using no weapons. Weapons should provide options for the monk, and not limit them. A monk weapon build should remain equally viable, to allow for fighting style unarmored training that better mimics real world martial arts systems. As an addendum, a monk should possess a great deal of skill in performing Combat Manuevers.
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the bard is entirely support and leadership, that is the place wherea bard works better...
first function is to support, either in combat or out of it, through spells, bardic 'song', combat expertise or skills.
either she is an skald telling stories to motivatethe warriors before battle, a trouvador singing praises the local heroes, a politician or a captain commandign their people to achieve greatness in epic speeches (yes a friend and me play like this,he is the politician, i am the captain)
second, she is a knowledgeable individual who has walked the world and learned from the experience, what she can't do with a well placed song, an smart and comic word that humilliation her enemy or a vocal order that calls to be heard and followed, she does with knowledge, shehas elarneda bit of everything... or knows where to learn what she is lacking.
the bard is not made for the front lines but she should be able to defend herself if the need rises.