why is "disabled" still at 0 HP?
I'm surprised this has not been changed.
the RPG motivators at llbbl dispict the absurdity quite well:
Housecats: "watch out, I can kill a 1st level commmoner!"
http://llbbl.com/data/RPG-motivational/target33.html
&
Hit Points: "anything more than 0 means I'm ready for action, baby!"
http://llbbl.com/data/RPG-motivational/target90.html
so why not lift it up to 10+ Class HD
let the disabled status start at
+10 minus Con modifier, be disabled till
0 minus Con modifier, death at
-10 minus Con modifier
the tougher you are the longer you can keep going
Wait, huh?
You might as well ask: "Why is 0 HP still disabled?"
My understanding of the definition of HP was that it was the number of points you take until disabled. It's an "unrealistic" system, to be sure, but I don't think changing the value disabled condition does anything to change that.
Your solution proposes to have the GM tracking a status on HP that's different for every monster and NPC? What does this achieve, exactly?
<snip>
It's an "unrealistic" system, to be sure,
<snip>
What does this achieve, exactly?
<snip>
doh?!
it acheives to make it more realistic while having a simple conversion from 3,5: add 10 HP<snip>
that system hampers players that are still at positive hit points.
yes, it also gives them 10 extra HP as compensation and leaves them conscious past 0HP.
K.I.S.S. unralistic good-by for little efford
and no, I'm not proposing the GM keeps a different statictic for monsters and NPC: the conversion from standard procedure is super simple.
This actually gives more options as to what can happen to people; Monsters, PC and NPC...
how often do you hit exactely 0 HP, and have to make the choice between attack, crawl away, etc. to save your skin?
I'm still not sure what you mean by "makes it more realistic" or why that's even a goal.
It sounds like this could be a house rule that works for you, but this one's just not on the radar for me. I've never had a problem with the preposterous logic of Hit Points. When I feel the need for realism, I can and do play other games. D&D (and Pathfinder by extension) must necessarily be a game where a human being can be struck with a deadly weapon several times and still be able to act competently.
I'm all for grit, but I think you have the wrong game. Now, house-ruling this kind of grit into a campaign is something I do almost all the time, so I don't want you to feel I'm attacking you.
I'm still not sure what you mean by "makes it more realistic" or why that's even a goal.
ok, lets not squabble over semantics.
I think it would add to the game if characters (and monsters) had a longer time in which to be disabled in, including a time in which they consciously feel their life draining away.
Instead of just the three step "heroic" -> "dying" -> "dead"
It gives more scenarios to role play with.
I'm still not sure what you mean by "makes it more realistic" or why that's even a goal.ok, lets not squabble over semantics.
I think it would add to the game if characters (and monsters) had a longer time in which to be disabled in, including a time in which they consciously feel their life draining away.
Instead of just the three step "heroic" -> "dying" -> "dead"It gives more scenarios to role play with.
I think I get it now. I really did need an explanation.
I think this is a decent rule, although there is no doubt more paperwork. I need to have a disabled number for each character on the playing field, and I need to remember to subtract HP and limit movement for those that are disabled. It is more complicated, but some games might benefit.
Again, this sounds like a great option, but I think it might play havoc if injected into the core system. There are a lot of players with different priorities.
There is a point to be made here for melee classes. If disabled were no longer 0 but 0 to -(CON bonus), this would create some wiggle room for the melee classes to absorb damage and quaff a potion or do something curative to get back in the fight. As it is the fighter would just be unconscious and bleeding to death. But I don't believe a disabled buffer should be larger than CON bonus, we can't reduce the risk of defeat too much or the game wouldn't be fun.
although there is no doubt more paperwork.
hehe, "do not underestimate the laziness of the GM"
we can't reduce the risk of defeat too much or the game wouldn't be fun.
the monsters and NPCs get the same chance to recharge
plus the "disabled" starts earlier in the positive HP than it lasts into the negative HP.so yes, more time to drink that potion,
but also: has to drink it earlier to stay effective on combat:
performing any standard action ... deals 1 point of damage after the completion of the act
but I think it might play havoc if injected into the core system. There are a lot of players with different priorities.
well... the beta version already lists several options of determining ability scores(page 5) and states explicitly that starting HP are still in discussion(page 14)
so, as you say "a lot of players with different priorities"where is the problem of having a bundle of (good) choices for different flavours?
I'm fairly new to RPG fora, so I haven't got much clue to what has been discussed already.
So far I only came across GM's of the " 't aint in teh books & I dunno if thys works**" school of thinking, which I think is a rather sad affair.
**(doesn't know and apparently doesn't want to risk finding out)
I would propose (and have already proposed elsewhere) the following range for the Disabled condition:
From 0 hit points (inclusive) .... to... - Fortitude save bonus hit points
Death would then occur at - (10 + Fortitude save bonus) hit points.
This rule has the following advantages:
1) It extends the range of the Disabled condition to something meaningful rather than the highly unlikely situation of ending up at precisely 0 hit points. This can also have roleplaying benefits (plus enhances realism - it is one of those times when realism and gameplay go hand in hand).
2) It enables the use of a fortitude saving throw for stabilization without the fear that it would be made too difficult for characters with a low Fort save or too easy for classes with a high Fort save. This will bring an outlying rule into the d20 framework.
3) It ensures that the negative hit point buffer scales with level. It does not scale proportionately to average damage taken at a given level, of course, but it does scale nonetheless.
Not sure if I like the solution, but I agree with Roman's following statement:
(...) extends the range of the Disabled condition to something meaningful rather than the highly unlikely situation of ending up at precisely 0 hit points. This can also have roleplaying benefits (plus enhances realism - it is one of those times when realism and gameplay go hand in hand) (...)
'findel
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We used a Condition Tracking system based on HP for an early playtest. It seemed to work fine, and adjusted for the PCs as they advanced. Converting Monsters to this became easy too, since it was based on HP, not HD or Monster type.
Any time your hit point total lowers by 25%, it reduces your combat effectiveness, much as encumbrance can affect a character. A character or creature at full hit points is assumed to be in a “normal” state, which represents one end of the condition track. Every time a character’s a character’s hit point total falls below the damage threshold (25% of the total hit points available), you move one step down the condition track. When a creature reaches 0 hit points, he is considered unconscious. A creature or character that falls below 0 hit points by an amount equal to his damage threshold is considered dead.
Condition Stage
Full Hit Points or lower
Normal; No penalties
75% Hit Points or lower
-1 penalty to Armor Class; -1 penalty on attack rolls, ability checks, and skill checks.
50% Hit Points or lower
-2 penalty to Armor Class;-2 penalty on attack rolls, ability checks, and skill checks.
25% Hit Points or lower
Move at half speed;-5 penalty to Armor Class-5 penalty on ability checks, attack rolls, ability checks, and skill checks,\
0 Hit points or lower
Helpless (Unconscious)
Below -25% Hit Points
Dead
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Since Healing can change a PC's (or Monster's) Condition, using potions and spells for that "healing surge" became important again. This added a little relism to combat, but with a simple mechanic. My player's tracked thier HP using benchmarks to mark when they had reached a debilitating condition. A magnetic board of the various Condition Stages was used to mark when they had moved from one Condition Stage to the next (utilizing magnets tagged with the PC's names).
I've been using -Con for death for quite some time, and was delighted to see it here. I agree that the current disabled rules are pretty much pointless; 0 HP is a rare condition. I would suggest two possible alternatives...
1. Disabled from 0 to -Con, then unconscious/dying from -Con to -Con*2. Simplest bookkeeping, IMO.
2. Eliminate the Disabled condition entirely, then give it back with Diehard (and you're disabled from 0 until death).