Apologies for all the numbers, but I’m trying to ‘show my working’ as clearly as possible to raise a possible concern.
Whilst the starting wealth varies for 1st level characters by class, making me doubtful of any attempt to analyse treasure accumulation between levels 1 and 2, table 12-4 (Page 293) states that a 2nd level PC should have 1000 GP worth of wealth, and a 3rd level PC should have 3000 GP worth of wealth. This means that each character should expect to see an increase in wealth of 2000 GP between 2nd and 3rd levels. For the sake of the following calculations, I’m going to assume a four man party, who irrespective of classes and class needs to invest in gear, split each treasure haul four ways, evenly. Since I’m not into spreadsheets or complex mathematical formulae I’m going to assume that a party of 2nd level characters, on their way to 3rd level, face level equivalent (CR 2) encounters. These bring in 600 XP according to table 12-3 (Page 292), which splits in a 4 man party for 150 XP each, per encounter.
According to Table 4-1 (Page 13), 2000 XP are required on the fast progression to advance from 2nd level to 3rd level, 3000 XP on the medium progression, and 4500 XP on the slow progression. Dividing each of these figures by 150 XP, gives 13 and one third encounters being 'scored' for fast track character to progress from 2nd to 3rd level, 20 encounters being 'scored' for a medium track character, and 30 encounters being 'scored' for a slow track character.
A fast track encounter according to table 12-5 (Page 293) brings in 800 GP, which splits four ways for 200 GP each per encounter. Multiplied by 13 and one third encounters, this brings in 2666 and one third GP for a character, with 666 and one third GP ‘surplus’ to spend on ‘consumables’ during adventuring.
A medium track encounter according to table 12-5 (Page 293) brings in 550 GP, which splits four ways for 137½ GP each per encounter. Multiplied by 20 encounters, this brings in 2750 GP for a character, with 750 GP ‘surplus’ to spend on ‘consumables’ during adventuring.
A slow track encounter according to table 12-5 (Page 293) brings in 350 GP, which splits four ways for 87½ GP each per encounter. Multiplied by 30 encounters, this brings in 2625 GP for a character, with 625 GP ‘surplus’ to spend on ‘consumables’ during adventuring.
The fast track surplus of 666 and one third GP, spread out over 13 and one third encounters, allows for the use of 50 GP of ‘consumables’ per encounter.
The medium track surplus of 750 GP, spread out over 20 encounters, allows for the use of 37½ GP of ‘consumables’ per encounter.
The slow track surplus of 625 GP, spread out over 30 encounters, allows for the use of 20 and five sixths GP of ‘consumables’ per encounter.
In other words, with less than half the budget for consumables for any encounter (unless they want to fall behind in terms of character wealth) a group of slow track progression PCs going from 2nd to 3rd level have to be a lot more careful than a group of ‘fast track’ progression PCs (as the slow track group have fewer resources, in relative terms, to expend). And not being aware of this, a DM might expect a ‘slow’ track group of PCs to be able to handle the same number of encounters with the same ease as a group of medium or fast track PCs.
I have a suspicion that this potential problem may carry over into other levels too- if anyone else can investigate?
I'll get right on it.
I do find it interesting that the "leftover for consumables" is so close at least.
Well if the encounters have lower treasure, that also means they are less threatening which means the 'slow track' is a lot more grindy than the other two since you're just facing lots more weak enemies instead of fewer, stronger ones. Money is Power.
Crusader of Logic wrote: Well if the encounters have lower treasure, that also means they are less threatening which means the 'slow track' is a lot more grindy than the other two since you're just facing lots more weak enemies instead of fewer, stronger ones. Money is Power. You have a very minor point there Crusader. Lower treasure would lower the difficulty of NPC encounters, and some other types that use more gear by a small degree. But for any treasure that is purely monetary, or any encounters where the treasure isn't "used" by the monsters, this has no effect.
Stats coming soon.
Alright - the % difference between the "Extra gold per encounter" for Fast, Medium, and Slow remains fairly consistent:
Max 100% 86% 58%
Min 100% 55% 37%
Average 100% 68% 46%
The Average *Total* extra gp per level is rather consistent:
Average 100% 103% 104%
Given this info it might be wiser for players in Slow (and maybe Medium) games to tend towards permanent items over consumables, but the difference isn't that extreme, and doesn't exacerbate as you go to higher levels.
If it's like monster has shiny coins from killing people, I can see that. If it's say... an Outsider they don't have buckets of cash. They have items useful to them. Hell, some of them even come standard with Use Magic Device. You can do very mean things even on standard wealth as an Outsider, which makes for a mean opponent for the PCs.
Crusader of Logic wrote: If it's like monster has shiny coins from killing people, I can see that. If it's say... an Outsider they don't have buckets of cash. They have items useful to them. Hell, some of them even come standard with Use Magic Device. You can do very mean things even on standard wealth as an Outsider, which makes for a mean opponent for the PCs. This is fairly true, but it's not "no treasure", simply about half.
The DM could also move most of the treasure *to* those encounters that can use it. Also halve charges on items, drop +'s by 1 (which depending on the + can about halve the price of the item).
The effect should be minor.
What are you talking about?
Crusader of Logic wrote: If it's like monster has shiny coins from killing people, I can see that. If it's say... an Outsider they don't have buckets of cash. They have items useful to them. Hell, some of them even come standard with Use Magic Device. You can do very mean things even on standard wealth as an Outsider, which makes for a mean opponent for the PCs. I agree...
With certain treasures for outsiders, say... a magic sword? Could be aligned to function only for evil outsiders. Take the Nazgul blades of LotR, when Aragorn touched the hilt, it turned to dust. Even at low levels, a goblin's rusty shortsword is crap to a PC or merchant, but say goblins have an ability to use trah beter in your world and get a bonus to use the weapons negating the penalty. Just make sure to drop enough pawnable and monetary real stuff in your adventure to keep you game in line without having to make all (say goblins?) have a class level as a monk just to get by.
Just my two cents... I've had a gelatinous cube mow over a body with potions, ruled the corks disolved and the potions took effect. It's all about wealth management and such. Perhaps the table should be seen as a guideline? I certain classes equipment at a discount too emulate what they would pick up when spendng their "wealth by level".
Any thoughts?
As a quick update on this subject, the situation seems to have carried over into the Core Rules. If you are a player with a character on a slow XP track in PFRPG and the DM is handing out treasure strictly by the guidelines, then you had better be extra careful with how you use up resources in combats, because your budget to make good/replace them and still have enough left over to have level-appropriate wealth is proportionally much lower than if you're on a fast track.
(Strictly by the book this discrepency is at its worst during 15th level, where a slow track character will not have level appropriate wealth by the time they make 16th level if on average they use up resources worth 808.64 GP per encounter, whereas a fast track character can afford to blow through an average of 2200 GP of resources per encounter and still have enough left to be considered appropriately equipped by 16th level.)
Kakarasa wrote: Crusader of Logic wrote: If it's like monster has shiny coins from killing people, I can see that. If it's say... an Outsider they don't have buckets of cash. They have items useful to them. Hell, some of them even come standard with Use Magic Device. You can do very mean things even on standard wealth as an Outsider, which makes for a mean opponent for the PCs. I agree...
With certain treasures for outsiders, say... a magic sword? Could be aligned to function only for evil outsiders. Take the Nazgul blades of LotR, when Aragorn touched the hilt, it turned to dust. Even at low levels, a goblin's rusty shortsword is crap to a PC or merchant, but say goblins have an ability to use trah beter in your world and get a bonus to use the weapons negating the penalty. Just make sure to drop enough pawnable and monetary real stuff in your adventure to keep you game in line without having to make all (say goblins?) have a class level as a monk just to get by.
Just my two cents... I've had a gelatinous cube mow over a body with potions, ruled the corks disolved and the potions took effect. It's all about wealth management and such. Perhaps the table should be seen as a guideline? I certain classes equipment at a discount too emulate what they would pick up when spendng their "wealth by level".
Any thoughts? If you have the time and can handle the maths and forward planning you could ignore the recommended treasure per encounter and just keep a running total of roughly the current value of each PC's gear & loose change and hand out/adjust treasure on the basis of ensuring that they are on course for the minimum wealth guidelines for the next level. This sort of attention to detail will require work on your part however.
The most important figure in all of this from the point of view of game balance is the wealth-by-level figure, which depending on the play-style of your group it may be harder or easier to hit if the recommended treasure per encounter guidelines are strictly adhered to.
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