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I am making a monk-type character for a game but I am not real familiar with monks. Please help. I am allowed to use PHB, DMG, MM1, Complete Adventurer, Magic Item Compendium and possibly Unearthed Arcana. 32 point buy. No abilities below 10.
My thought is a monk/rogue(mostly for sneak and uncanny dodge + rogue skills) build with a possible prestige class, but I am unsure about Race, what levels to take what, what types of items I want to have at certain levels and what feats are most beneficial to a monk. I would like him to be fairly effective in combat. I know that a monk belt is needed but I am unfamiliar with gear that a monk would need at mid to high-levels.
If there is anyone good at making monks please help out with a build. The game is only going up to around 14th level so a 20 level build isn't necessary.
Any help would be appreciated.
Just to clarify -- what is it about the monk class that you like? Unarmed fighting? Not needing to wear armor? Running really fast? That will dictate how many levels of monk you will want to take.
Well, you need either favored class monk or favored class rogue, or no favored class, so that limits your racial choices to human, halfelf, halfling, githzerai, goblin, and bugbear, I think. Githzerai is a nice choice if you can stomach the ECL cost. You can also take the Aescetic Rogue feat to freely multi-class between rogue and monk.
What do you want your monk/rogue to be able to do?
If you're allowed to use Monk Fighting Styles from Unearthed Arcana, then Sleeping Tiger is probably the best bet (+2 to Hide, Weapon Finesse at 1st, Improved Initiative at 2nd, and even an extra +1d6 damage with light/unarmed attacks when opponents are denied Dex bonus to AC--as long as you have Power Attack and 9 ranks in Hide). I'd recommend a human (for the extra skill points and the "any" favored class benefit) with 14 Str (6 pts), 16 Dex (10 pts), 14 Con (6 pts), 12 Int (4 pts), 14 Wis (6 pts), 8 Cha (0 pts) with the following progression:
Monk 1; Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Weapon Finesse*
Monk 2; Improved Initiative*
Rogue 1; Ascetic Rogue
By starting as a Sleeping Tiger monk, you gain Weapon Finesse at 1st level and Improved Initiative at 2nd. After 3rd level, your progression depends on which class you want to emphasize more: monk or rogue. If monk, then take levels as follows:
Monk 3; +1 Dex
Monk 5; Power Attack
Monk 6; Improved Sunder*
Rogue 2; +1 Dex
Monk 7; Mobility
Monk 10; +1 Dex, Spring Attack
Rogue 3
Monk 12; Combat Reflexes
Monk 13; +1 Dex
Monk 14
Rogue 4; any feat
Monk 16; +1 Dex
If rogue, then take levels as follows:
Rogue 2; +1 Dex
Monk 4; Mobility
Rogue 4; +1 Dex
Monk 5; Power Attack
Monk 6; Improved Sunder*
Rogue 6; +1 Dex, Spring Attack
Monk 8
Rogue 7; Combat Reflexes
Rogue 8; +1 Dex
Rogue 10; any feat
Rogue 12; +1 Dex
Note that the suggested feats can be freely exchanged (except for the style feats marked with a *) as desired if you want different capabilities. By taking monk and rogue classes in multiples of 4, you don't lose anything from your BAB. Skill progression may be tricky if you want to fill the role of the locks/traps disabler, but it's possible as a human (4 + 1 Int + 1 bonus) by starting with Disable Device 2.0, Open Lock 2.0, and Search 2.0 at 1st level and using the rogue levels to add extra ranks.
I just DMed a Goliath monk with Improved Grapple, and it worked like a charm! I know Goliath isn't allowed, but you might want to put some of those Rogue skill points into Use Magic Device and get yourself a Wand of Enlarge Person.
Or go Spellthief instead of Rogue, and take it as one of your class spells. A Large Grappling Spellthief-Monk would be the bane of mages everywhere! You sneak attack the mage you're grappling, AND steal some of his spells to use against him!
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My suggestions based on my 7th level monk:
Two most important attributes- Dexterity and Wisdom(Both 18)
Next two- Constitution and Strength(13 and 15)
Least- Intelligence and Charisma(14 and 11)
Dexterity got the first attribute increase at 4th level
Unearthed Arcana Fighting Style: Cobra Strike
Skill bonus- +2 to Escape Artist
Feats- Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack
Bonus ability- Dodge bonus is +2 instead of +1
Important Feats: Weapon Finesse, Stunning Fist, Weapon Proficiency-Longbow(better than a sling, in my oppinion)
Gear: +2 Bracers of Armor(lucky random magic item), +1 Drow Longbow(looted), Rope of Climbing, 1 Immovable Rod, several Potions of Cure Wounds
This setup grants my monk an AC of 21. 23 versus one opponent; 25 when moving through threatened squares; 27 if moving through my Dodge opponent's squares.
Use of the Longbow allows me better damage and greater range than the sling when fighting against opponents I can't personally reach. Different arrowheads provide me with the means to overcome various types of Damage Reduction if necessary. Plus its different than the typical monk.
The Rope of Climbing works exceptionally well with the Slow Fall ability. Slow Fall, tell the rope to tie off, climb down, tell to untie, Slow Fall, Repeat.
Fast Movement boosts my move speed to 50 feet at this level, and combined with Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack, allows me to run into combat, attack, and get back out before I get into trouble. Taking advantage of terrain, I can turn this into an ability to slip into and out of cover quickly. Additionally, if I take a beating and need to fall back, I can probably do so without being hit.
While at this level I do have Wholeness of Body, I don't like to rely on any one class feature too much, I try and carry about 4-6 various cure wounds potions on my character at the beginning of an adventure. Typically 3 Cure Light Wounds, 2 Cure Moderate, and 1 Cure Serious. So if I do need to fall back after being hurt badly, I can patch my self back up and charge in once again.
Weapon Finesse makes me less dependant on my Strength, which means fewer Attributes to worry about, but the lower Strength obviously limits my damage potential.
Carrying a couple backup melee weapons would be a good idea, perhaps a siangham and a kama to increase the types of damage you're capable of, incase you come up against something that has damage reduction.
Advice for gear as you progress:
The Monk's Belt you mentioned is a good find. Anything that boosts Wisdom or Dexterity is useful, or items that directly boost your AC, such as the Bracers of Armor my DM unknowingly handed to me. :)
Gear that can add to your class features is obviously handy, such as boots of Springing and Striding.
Advice for Feats as you progress:
I'm not home, so I don't have access to the books to properly help. However, I can offer an interesting concept. Cleric/Monk. There are spells that require you to touch the target. Why not punch them? I like being able to deck someone and cast a mean spell (like inflict wounds) on them. I would suggest gesalt, though. Multiclassing doesn't do it enough justice in my opinion. You should check with your DM and make sure it'll be okay. +1 ECL, but it's well worth it and you can pay to have the ECL adjustment removed later. You could do Monk/Wizard or Monk/Sorceror instead, equally effective. But then you don't get the satisfaction of decking the annoying party member as hard when you heal him. Wizards and sorcerors don't share primary ability scores, though, and that'll make creating it harder. The gesalt class option should be in Unearthed Arcana according to my co-. Just remember to ask your DM, since I don't know what your allowed to use.
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Alright, some great ideas. I am think of subbing out rogue for scout in a Monk/Scout build, going with Cobra Strike or Denying stance style, and getting Exotic weapon proficiency-Kusari-gama and using that in the off hand to disarm and trip.
I can't envision the Spellthief/monk mostly because of all the necessary attributes I would have. Dex, Wis, Cha, and some str and con. Just too much needed. Monk and scout seem to mesh much better. I don't really want to do a level-adjusted race either, although I could probably get a goliath PC if I wanted.
I figure that with the blinding speed he will have having Spring attack would be really worthwhile. I think I need to stick with human for my race though for XP reasons and for the extra feat.
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Alright, some great ideas. I am think of subbing out rogue for scout in a Monk/Scout build, ...
I wouldn't, the main reason being that Monk and Scout don't synergize well together. The scout wants to be moving all the time to get his damage bonus, while the monk wants to stand still and make full attacks. The Monk/Rogue (w/ Aescetic Rogue feat) is far stronger. The build above is a good start. If you can talk your DM into it, also take the Carmendine Monk feat (from the FR Champions of Valor book) or Kung-Fu Genius (from Dragon Compendium). Both let you use Intelligence in place of Wisdom for your monk stuff, so you can focus more exclusively on Dex and Int.
I agree with the previous posters on the variant Monk class selection, either Cobra Strike or Sleeping Tiger, but whichever you decide on it'll be based on your preference of game play and possibly PRC choice
Some of the feats from those variant classes help to meet prerequisites for some PRC, thus leaving you open feats to further detail your character.
Prestige Class
Complete Adventure
Dungeon Delver: Avg BAB, D6 HD, Good Fort & Ref, rec. up to 5th level, dependent on abilities desired
Nightsong Enforcer: Good BAB, D8 HD, Good Ref, rec. 1st level (just for +1 BAB and +1d6 SA)
Thief Acrobat: Avg BAB, D6 HD, Good Ref, rec. up to 3rd level or 5th for Improved Evasion
DMG
Dragon Disciple: Avg BAB, D12 HD, Good Fort & Will, rec. up to 4th or 5th level (1 level of Sorcerer is required, suggested Cha 11 or 12, though 10 is functional)
Duelist: Good BAB, D10 HD, Good Ref, max level depends on desired abilities
Horizon Walker: Good BAB, D8 Hd, Good Fort, max level depends on desired abilities
Shadowdancer: Avg BAB, D8 HD, Good Ref, rec. up to 4th level (5th for Defensive Roll, Improved Uncanny Dodge already gained at 2nd level if character started with 2 Barbarian levels)
I don’t see any of the PRC’s exceeding 5th level so that leaves a minimum of 9 character levels to fill. Depending on selections its possible to take levels in more than 1 PRC
Standard Classes
Barbarian: 2nd level
Monk: suggested min 3rd up to 5th level
Ninja: suggested min 3rd up to 6th level
Scout: suggested 3rd or 5th
The Barbarian class is listed because it has the game features which you stated are desirable. Has the same number of skill points as Monk at first level, though with a higher HD and a better BAB which the makeup will be lacking in initially.
One note on the Barbarian is that the two levels suggested must precede any Monk levels because you can’t advance any further as an Barbarian once he becomes Lawful.
The Scout class will also provide the same class features that you desired.
Race Human
Str 14, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 10 (min 10 per stat level as you stated)
Building the character depends on your PRC selection(s), also on what class features you want access to and how fast you want access to them
No real suggestion on class selection per level as its preference
If you want to run around and hit things once, then go scout/monk. If you want to stand there and hit things a ton of times, go rogue/monk. The only problem with combining Monk and the Spring Attack tree is that one of the monk's signature abilities is their Flurry of Blows and Greater Flurry of Blows. (OK, that's 2 signature abilities, but, um, uh, ...) Anyways, it's not a BAD combo, it just gives you some different tactical options. Either run up, hit it, and retreat (and not get hit at all), or stand there and whale on them for a while.
The Spring Attacking Monk might be especially useful if you're teamed up with multiple rogues. You can Spring forward, Stunning Fist one baddie (allowing a non-flanking rogue to sneak attack), then Spring back and into flanking position with another rogue (allowing some more sneak attack goodness). You can also be a good grappler, allowing the rogues to sneak attack your grappled foe (they're denied Dex mod to AC vs no grappler), but risk getting stabbed by an ally (but then you get to complain about it for the rest of the night, and that's fun!).
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I was thinking of swapping out flurry for the PHB2 variant that lets me make one attack for double damage instead. Not sure if I should or not though. The attack bonus is the same as the flurry, so the penalty goes away at 9th, and you get extra attack when you would get extra flurry attacks (11th I think). Not sure if that is a good choice or not though......any thoughts?
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I was thinking of swapping out flurry for the PHB2 variant that lets me make one attack for double damage instead. Not sure if I should or not though. The attack bonus is the same as the flurry, so the penalty goes away at 9th, and you get extra attack when you would get extra flurry attacks (11th I think). Not sure if that is a good choice or not though......any thoughts?
The Decisive Strike ability is kinda iffy to me. You're trading in several attacks for one. All it does is allow you to deal double damage. With a high enough BAB, your Flurry is already doing that. Decisive Strike seems to me like its flavored more to the Strength focused Monk, instead of the Dexterity focused Monk.
If you go with this variant, don't take Weapon Finesse. Rely on your Strength to better your attack, as you'll be trying to hit harder with each attack. By dropping Finesse, you'll free up a feat you can use, and your Strength pulls double duty as adding to your attack and damage. You'll still need a decent Dexterity to up your AC, but its not as important with this type of Monk.
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I was thinking of swapping out flurry for the PHB2 variant that lets me make one attack for double damage instead. Not sure if I should or not though. The attack bonus is the same as the flurry, so the penalty goes away at 9th, and you get extra attack when you would get extra flurry attacks (11th I think). Not sure if that is a good choice or not though......any thoughts?The Decisive Strike ability is kinda iffy to me. You're trading in several attacks for one. All it does is allow you to deal double damage. With a high enough BAB, your Flurry is already doing that. Decisive Strike seems to me like its flavored more to the Strength focused Monk, instead of the Dexterity focused Monk.
If you go with this variant, don't take Weapon Finesse. Rely on your Strength to better your attack, as you'll be trying to hit harder with each attack. By dropping Finesse, you'll free up a feat you can use, and your Strength pulls double duty as adding to your attack and damage. You'll still need a decent Dexterity to up your AC, but its not as important with this type of Monk.
Yeah, then I am increasing the amount of abilities I need to focus on.....Maybe I'll stick with Flurry....
If you are going to do Gestalt as was mentioned earlier, an interesting choice that capitalizes on some Monk features would be Monk/Druid. Great in direct combat, the ability to cast heal/buff spells and direct damage spells, an animal companion, and a few other benefits.
Like adding Wis to AC when wildshaped! You can also substitute unarmed strike damage (for your new size) for the natural attack of the critter you're wildshaped into, which at higher levels will be significant.
The only downsides I can see are that you're restricted to a LN alignment by your classes, and when wildshaped, Flurry of Blows wouldn't work.Why wouldn't flurry work while wildshaped? I thought you could do that.
Me too. It's not supernatural or anything, is it? Or whatever descriptor isn't allowed when polymorphed.
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Me too. It's not supernatural or anything, is it? Or whatever descriptor isn't allowed when polymorphed.The only downsides I can see are that you're restricted to a LN alignment by your classes, and when wildshaped, Flurry of Blows wouldn't work.Why wouldn't flurry work while wildshaped? I thought you could do that.
No, but I think it doesn't work with most natural weapons(just humanoid natural weapons). I seem to remember a thread a while back talking about it mentioning the idea of a Centaur Monk not getting to use his hooves as part of a Flurry. I could be misinterpreting or misremembering what was stated, however.