Non-Casters Making Magic Items

[Khalarak]

Hello all, just a thought I had walking home from class yesterday.

As it stands in D&D, only wizards, clerics, bards, and other spellcasters can produce weapons, potions, amulets, armor, and such of supernatural potency. I suppose at first blush that makes sense; those who have the magic make the magic items.

However, fantasy is *full* of alchemists and blacksmiths who can make true wonders, even artifacts, with nothing but the skill in their minds and the sweat of their brow. I noticed this problem a little while back when I tried to make a 'legendary blacksmith', a 20th-level expert, but realized he couldn't make magic items unless he could also sling fireballs and walls of stone around. Neither can even the most skilled alchemist make even basic healing potions. Blah.

Now, I do think that spellcasters should be *better* at making magic items than normal craftsmen. After all, they have magic on their side.

So the solution I thought of is fairly simple: allow non-spellcasters to take magic-item creation feats, in their case substituting the number of ranks they have in a relevant skill for the caster level requirement (for example, only characters with 5 or more ranks in Craft (weaponsmithing, armorsmithing, leatherworking, or bowyer) would qualify for Craft Arms and Armor. After that, they can simply make the appropriate skill checks, making silver-piece progress as normal for crafting the item in question (perhaps adding the caster level of the desired special ability to the craft DC). It will probably take your average 5th-level weaponsmith over a year to make a simple +1 longsword, so its unlikely he'll do so unless compensated handsomely. But for your supremely skilled 20th-level smith, he's capable of making truly spectacular items without actually being a spell-slinger, though the 20th-level wizard is still a superior (and far more dangerous) craftsman.

From a flavor standpoint, you could say that taking the feat represents learning simple arcane formula and components that, while not enabling him to actually cast spells, achieve the desired end when it comes to crafting. Hell, you could even substitute rare materials for the normal spell prerequisites.

I don't know if this breaks down at any point. Figuring an average fighter at level 20, with full ranks in Craft (weaponsmithing) and enough other bonuses (Int, masterwork tools, etc) to bring him up to a +28 modifier total, I figger it still takes 29 years (rouhgly 1500 weeks) of taking 10 to make a 20th-caster-level sword. Truly an epic undertaking, but theoretically worth it for such a potent weapon, particularly if he's an elf or dwarf. Now, adventurers most likely have better things to do with their time, so assuming instead a 20th-level expert, he could do it a tad faster (being willing to invest Skill Focus feats and such), but still not in the 200 days a wizard would be able to achieve.

Thoughts? Is it even worth the trouble to anyone else?

[Charles Scholz]

There are 2 ways to craft a new Magical Weapon.

The first is to have a caster enchant the weapon during forging. This is the easiest and the way most people do it.

The second is to have a magical properties you want pre-cast on a gem. You implant the gem during the forging process. This process is inherently dangerous as there is a chance the gem could explode during the crafting process. Many a Dwarf has found this out the hard way; which is why a Dwarven hold has so many forges.

[Stereofm]

Khalarak wrote:

Hello all, just a thought I had walking home from class yesterday.

From a flavor standpoint, you could say that taking the feat represents learning simple arcane formula and components that, while...

I very much agree with you, and like your idea.

Maybe the gods smile on the truly gifted and empower their creations ?

The only problem that I can see with this approach, is when the item has a VISIBLE spell-like effect e;g; a FLAMING sword as opposed to a defending sword.

Surely womeone will help me rationalize this ?

regards

[hunterz86]

You could always do what I like to do, avoid the forging system all together.

I generally allow items to be crafted on skill checks alone (though the skills are more precise than just blacksmithing). The kicker, make the components for magical items (or perhaps the place of forging) a questing goal. Perhaps you need specific gems that are only aquired at place X, or can only be made on a certain forge (Hey, the One Ring could only be made in mount doom).

Of course in my games, not every shop keeper has a Vorpal Sword laying around, and magic items are rare. I just feel that it bypasses rules that other wise never would get used in my games. Honestly, what game master is going to give you 200 - 1500 free days doing nothing. I know mine never did and so wasting feats on that sort of thing would be pointless. The questing to get components may take some time in my games, but once you have the components it does not take any longer than it would take to forge a normal sword. The bests swords in the world do not take nearly as long as it takes to craft a sword in any of the d&d rules.

I guess I just always thought the crafting rules where something that needed to be seriously looked at in the first place. Honestly, I am more likely to FIND a +2 flaming burst sword in the time it would take me to craft one, in fact Im more likely to find something better in that time.

[Khalarak]

Aye, I never really intended this idea for common use by players, but more as a rules-kosher addition to the world that avoided DM handwaving. And it doesn't have to be magic swords; I can easily see a rogue with a lot of ranks in alchemy taking a week or two off now and again to whip up a few healing potions for emergencies. Some campaigns are player-driven, not DM-driven, and players can take months or even years off at a time between adventures. In fact, I try to involve as much downtime as I can so they can develop their characters beyond the adventure.

And as for a normal craftsman making a flaming sword, why not? If he's got access to the right exotic materials (red dragon's blood, salamander hearts, fire lotus blooms or something of the like, steel collected from the plane of fire, etc.) and knows the proper incantations, I could see him crafting the weapon without any squinting at all. I love the idea of questing for rare components, but I also have no problem with players purchasing those components from other powerful individuals, particularly in power-heavy settings like Faerun or Golarion. They only have to go a-questing if they want to.

[PurinaDragonChow]

To be honest, it always bothered me a little bit that a wizard could craft a magic sword - what does he/she know about swords? A wizard doesn't even know how to USE a sword. I agree, there should be some method by which a high-level fighter or expert could make a magical weapon (or armor).

[Epervier]

Wasn't there a Prestige class that allowed smiths to create magic items? I think it was called the Battlesmith from Races of Stone. Also there are magical forges that bestows upon the crafter different item creation feats like Craft magic arms and armor.

[oneevilbob]

I've always allowed non-wizards to craft magical weapons and armor, persuming they could craft the mundane versions of course. But you do have to balance it and its not that hard.

When a Wizard needs 50,000 gp to craft a weapon through handweaving those arcane components are able to make the sword. Whats preventing you from letting the 50,000 GP worth of materials contain a Firegland from a dragon (for Flaming effects) or the like. Make the players gather them up, its not that hard as by the time they have cleared a dungeon they can find something that will be useable as a magical item.