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But that kinda ruins the surprise...
I don't think it ruins the surprise. And it's waaay better than giving out a sack full of items they don't want or consider sub-par.
Besides, it always makes sense to maintain a good idea of what items your players would like to upgrade their characters with. Especially for a campaign like STAP where the middle act takes place far from civilization (and high-level crafters).
-Skeld
What about giving the bard something to boost his charisma? Improves spell casting, perform etc.
I, too, am approaching this part with my group, so the ideas and advice herein is invaluable to me too!
I, like you, wanted to craft my own neat personal items each for my PC without actually asking them. Here are a few ideas I had for them:
Battleaxe of the Planes (variant of the Sword of the Planes for my barbarian/ champion of gwynharwyf)
+2 or +3 adamantine maul (for my goliant character who likes to break things)
Genesis Diamond (homebrew item: single use resurrection item, since the campaign can be really lethal and the cleric is behind on levels being a level adjustment race, rather liked this idea)
Dragonbone Quiver (homebrew item from previous homebrew campaign: a quiver with 10 special dragonbone arrows that penetrate all DR and come back every dawn; for the ranger archer of the group)
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Those are my ideas so far.
If you're looking for a good melee weapon for the bard, I could recommend the Rapier of Puncturing, although some might consider it a little powerful.
Good thread! More ideas!
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You could go the alternate route.
Fill the place with interesting but seldom used items, and you may be surprised by the results.
in my game, i added a few things (running with 6 PC's and 3 Cohorts at that time)
Flying Carpet (5x5 version...became our warmage's signature item)
Ioun Stone, Iridescent Spindle (who doesn't want to not suffocate?)
Pearls of Power lvl 4
Ring of Water Walking
Ring of Wizardy 1 (very nice at this point in the game)
+1 Adamantine Full Plate (AC 9 / DR 3/-...very nice)
Rod of Wonder (very nice to add in a bit of chaos in the game)
Perhaps a re-usable Javelin of lightning...either every 1d4+1 rds or like 3-5 times/day. Absolutely useless against the demons coming up, but very handy for clearing out mooks for now.
-t
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Ioun Stone, Iridescent Spindle (who doesn't want to not suffocate?)
Pearls of Power lvl 4...
Ioun stones are always liked, and the tome/manual (smaller version?) are expensive but welcome. Some other ideas:
Dragon did an article on a few magic 'songs' which might be fun to include. Basically one song for each of the bardic abilities, but boosting the ability in certain circumstances. For example singing the Rhythm of the Hammer, is a +1 inspire courage, but when sung by a dwarf is a +3 inspire courage (maybe make it x times a day?). I will see if I can find which issue the article is in (probably a 3.0 though)
fwiw I ask my characters what their wish list is, and when I think they are of appropriate levels slip it in. Two have requested the whip of water.
Bards are a jack of all trades, but master of (n)one. Which one is this bard a master in? What does your bard do the most or at least the most unique? What special effect does your bard's magic employ (sands? water? flying monkees?) From where does the bard hale? I can give you more specifics if I have this background knowledge.
Something like this might work for the bard or the vow of poverty *grin*
BTW I think tailoring the magic is perfect for the Zotzhila encounter. Kudos.
Well, he's first and foremost social master. He has at least +15 in Bluff, Gather Information etc and +21 in diplomacy, so whenever the rolls are required he does it. In combat he usually goes invisible, sings appropriate songs, inspire courage/competence, countersong, aids people, heals them a bit, and attacks only when he doesn't have anything else to do, so any weapons/armor wouldn't be much of a boost to him. Some diplomacy item worth 20000 gp is a great idea, although I can't think of one.
I'll definitely give the anvil to them. Thanks for that.
*grin* the anvil is cool.
Social master would require that he have tongues. Browsing the MIC for protection and interaction items: beholder crown offers a handful of charm spells (among others); helm of telepathy (can communicate with everyone); boots of the mountain king (just for stoneskin) bracelet of friends (for regrouping/rescuing the part); ring of divergence; bone ring (protection); ring of dragon friendship (maybe multiple/other critter types?); war wizard cloak (protection); cloak of displacement; cloak of resistance; portable hole (neep neep); manual of stone golem (he could havea walking throne! :); Rope of entanglement
Bracelet of friends sounds like a social sort of thing and the telepathy would be a huge boon (unless he knows all languages already).
Also remember that a smaller (in cost) item can be 'upped' (pg 229 of the MIC). consider adding Pendant of Joy's abilities to a ring of languages for example.
Hope that helps.
It shouldn't be an easy choice.
Not a huge fan of supplying one item for each PC that'll suit them perfectly. Zotzilaha has loads of treasure - there should be some tricky choices to make.
(Though I could afford to do this because I gave ol' Zot Divine Rank 0, so could be reasonably sure they wouldn't be able to kill him and get ALL his stuff. If your PCs are likely to fight rather than talk, this might not be the best option...)
Here's the list I made up. I tried to add a few unique features to otherwise standard items, just to keep things interesting. And some were just in for flavour (anything batty or volcano-y got a gig) or because they were cool and thematic.
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Scroll with following arcane spells:
- Spell Compendium
- Wall of smoke 1
- Combust 2
- Junglerazer 3
- Death throes 5
- Earth reaver 5
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- PHB2
- Energy vulnerability 3
- Detonate 9
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- Complete Mage
- Shape of the hellspawned stalker 3
- Deadly lahar 8
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- PHB
- Shatter 2
- Crushing despair 4
- Disintegrate 6
- Incendiary cloud 8
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- Misc
- Raise volcano 9
Horn of Blasting
Wand of Dispel Magic (cl 10th, 50 charges)
Vest of Resistance +4
Greater Bracers of Archery
Circlet of the Dispassionate Advisor - Headband of Intellect +4, +4 Knowledge(nobility), if wearer knowingly lies then the circlet goes black and ceases to function for 24 hours
Ring of Invisibility
Cloak of the Bat
Amulet of Mighty Fists +2
Stone of Good Luck
Pendant of the Enduring Sacrifice - Amulet of Health +4, +2 to hit vs last creature to crit wearer, lasts until wearer is healed any hp
Armour of the Golden Legion - +1 Adamantine Full Plate, +2 to diplomacy, allies within 30ft gain +1 Will save, -5 Hide
A single, 10cm fang, wrapped in a piece of parchment
Crocodile Knight Leathers - +4 leather armour, 3/day haste on self for 1 round
Thunderclap anklets – boots of speed, 3/day can stomp, creatures within 15ft must save Reflex DC17 or fall prone
Bundle of Armour Charms and Weapon Tokens
(Tokens can be attached to weapons, charms to armour, 1 token/charm per item. Lesser must be attached to +1 items or better, greater to +3 or better):
- lesser fang charm of bloody rage (+3 to weapon damage and saves vs fear when below ½ hp)
- lesser snakeskin charm of glancing blows (+5 to rolls to avoid being grappled)
- greater topaz token of the sun (sheds light as Daylight on command when wielded)
- lesser eagle-feather charm of honourable war (+5 to AC vs ranged attacks)
- lesser talon token of glorious bloodshed (heal 3hp when you damage living enemy with the weapon, max 30hp/day)
- lesser bone charm of Mictlan’s embrace (+3 saves vs inflict spells, negative levels, and death effects)
Eye of Huitzil – caster level 13th sunbeam 3/day
Plumage Palanquin – ornate feathery platform acts as a Tenser’s floating disk for anyone seated on it, feather fans operate to keep the rider cool, rider is clothed in rich robes of exotic feathers bedecked with gems and gold as long as he is seated on it.
Axe of Molten Copper - +1 flaming burst battleaxe, 1/day ranged touch attack for 4d6 fire damage, range 30ft
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They ended up taking the leather armour (scout), the adamantine plate (dragon shaman), vest of resistance (cleric), headband of intellect (swordsage), and scroll (wizard).
I'd deliberately set it up so that the wizard would have to choose between the headband and the scroll, but he bribed another party member (with a cloak of the mountebank and some other stuff) to select the headband and then give it to him, thus having his cake and eating it too...
Most of them are standard items boosted with one or two minor abilities/penalties just to make things a bit more interesting - particularly the ones that were a bit below the 20000gp suggested value and needed a bit of a leg up. I added the palanquin for flavour - I figure most of Zot's gear was old Olman treasure crafted before the first Tide and wanted the nature of the loot to emphasise that. I renamed and re-flavoured a couple of other items in small ways for the same reason.
But yeah, tailor them to your group a bit. For me, the leather armour and the bracers were for the scout's to choose between, the scroll and circlet for the wizard, while the dragons shaman was never going to take anything except the full plate and I had no idea about the cleric and swordsage, so just piled a load of utility items in there and let them make the call.
Zot won't attack straight off, by the way - the PCs have a couple of rounds to notice the niche on the opposite wall and put the idol in there. If they start messing around they're in trouble, but they do have the option of avoiding combat with him.
The fire bats will still attack, though.
Because one character in my group is a Vow of Povery Cleric, and I really didn't want him not to get anything from the whole encounter, while the rest of the party is getting awesome items (yeah, I know it's his choice, but it's still kinda bummer) I decided that Zotzilaha will offer him Fire Subtype, permanently. So, I'd just like to hear what you people think about that idea, or maybe suggest some another form of permanent boon.
Would an exalted PC really take a gift like that from an evil deity? It seems a little bit out of character.
My take on it is that the Vow of Poverty guy should get nothing (or at least he shouldn't want anything). It's rough, but that's the price you pay for Vow of Poverty.
Creative Director
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Because one character in my group is a Vow of Povery Cleric, and I really didn't want him not to get anything from the whole encounter, while the rest of the party is getting awesome items (yeah, I know it's his choice, but it's still kinda bummer) I decided that Zotzilaha will offer him Fire Subtype, permanently. So, I'd just like to hear what you people think about that idea, or maybe suggest some another form of permanent boon.Would an exalted PC really take a gift like that from an evil deity? It seems a little bit out of character.
My take on it is that the Vow of Poverty guy should get nothing (or at least he shouldn't want anything). It's rough, but that's the price you pay for Vow of Poverty.
I agree, to be honest. My hatred of Vow of Poverty notwithstanding... the point of that Vow is to gain powers by sacrificing something. If the Vow of Poverty character doesn't miss out when fancy treasure is handed out to the other characters... then he's overpowered; the INCREDIBLE benefits granted by Vow of Poverty are, in theory, balanced by the fact that that character is self-selecting to miss out on big treasure paydays.
Therefore, I'd say that the Vow of Poverty character SHOULDN'T get anything from the Zotzilaha vault. Instead, he gains his Vow of Poverty benefits. Which is why I think Vow of Poverty is bad design, by the way—it basically forces you to not take part in one of the key factors of the game. Most of the exalted vows are like that, in fact; they basically reward you for not playing the game. If you had all of the vows, you basically couldn't go on adventures. It's almost like a weird subversive attempt to get D&D players to take up those vows to save their souls from the damnation they'll face if they keep playing D&D...
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Yeah, by giving the VoP character something you're making the feat even MORE overpowered than it already was.
And while I share James' opinion that the Vows force people to "forgo" a part of the game, I think that's what makes them such great roleplaying opportunities. It's easy to fall into a routing with D&D if you let yourself - kill the bad guys, take their stuff. Kill the bad guys, take their stuff. By taking a vow of poverty, you're forcing yourself OUT of that mindset - it makes you roleplay differently, and in fact changes the outlook of everybody at the table in many cases. And in my opinion, that's a good thing.
But yeah, they get more than enough in innate abilities in exchange for giving up material possessions...so giving them something in addition throws the whole thing out of balance.
What others have said is true as well - if you have a VoP character, it means everyone else's share is greater, and as such you should either be prepared for people to be overly wealthy for their level, or else you need to tone down the loot income to compensate. In my case, I run a game with 6 players, one of which has a VoP, and I just hand out treasure by the book, ie what 4 people should get. If not for the VoP, I probably would have increased it some, but now as it is, everybody is a bit light on loot, which to be honest is OK with me. It makes people rely on their characters and their own tactical/strategic abilities, instead of their gadgets. :)
What others have said is true as well - if you have a VoP character, it means everyone else's share is greater[..]
Not so. According to the Book of Exalted Deeds:
"The majority
of her share of party treasure (or the profits from the sale
thereof ) should be donated to the needy, either directly (equipping
rescued captives with gear taken from their fallen captors)
or indirectly (making a large donation to a temple noted for its
work among the poor)."
I.e. the character still gets a share, but he gives it away.
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Hehehe I so knew that...wasn't thinking. Sad thing is, as I've said, I HAVE a VoP character in my campaign, and he does that. Just had a dain-bramaged moment there. So yeah, ignore all that stuff I said about scaling back the treasure. Maybe I should add a little more loot to my game?
(But I probably won't!)
I agree that Vow of Poverty is a mixed blessing, at best.
And as for his Exaltedness and accepting a boon from an evil bat god... Well, if the others (mostly good) can take items, he can take this. Also, who's to say that he will know that Zotzilaha's evil? :D Furthermore, he can reject it if he doesn't want it, but at least he couldn't complain that he doesn't get anything (not that he does, I'm just saying).
That's what I'm suggesting -- that Zotzilaha should offer a gift, and that he should either (a) reject it, or (b) accept it and give it to charity.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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Sweet - think of something really, REALLY cool, and if he takes it he breaks his vow :-)
Slightly off-topic but VoP discussions are always fun. The VoP druid in my game has the HIGHEST AC - he gets both his Dex AND Wis bonuses to AC, 6 points from VoP AND a deflection bonus. Then he casts that Luminous Armor spell that adds to his AC and gives opponents a minus to hit for a double bonus.
If he really works it he can hit AC 41 - at level 7. I can't wait for him to die :-)
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Yeah, the VoP guy in our party is pretty impressive too...I'll just drop his abridged statblock in here since I have it handy. His draconic auras have saved more PC lives than I can recall. I HOPE his owner doesn't mind, if he does he'll tell me and I can remove it, but I doubt he'd care.
JAATU BRONZESCALE, Barbarian 2 Bronze Dragon Shaman 9 Dragon Devotee 5 CR16
NG Medium humanoid (human, chultan, draconic)
Init +6(8); Senses Listen +17(19), Spot +19(21)
Aura shamanic aura 30' (energy, power, senses, toughness, or vigor)
Languages Aquan, Common, Chultan, Dragonic, Maztican, Tashalaan
AC 31, touch 18, flat-footed 31 brilliant-energy 31 (+9 sacred +4 nat armor +2 defl +6 Dex)
hp 189 (16 HD) +32 while raging; DR 5/evil
Immune (Electricity, Paralysis, Sleep and Frightful Presence of Dragons)
Fort +21, Ref +12, Will +10 (+2 Will while raging, +2 perfection vs entangle, hold and paralysis, +4 perfection vs compulsion)
Speed 40 ft. (8 squares)
Melee cold iron morningstar +22/+17/+12 (1d8+10/20x2); or Melee unarmed +19/+19/+14/+9 (1d3+10/1d3+6) plus Touch of Golden Ice; or Melee claws +21/+21 (1d3+10) plus Touch of Golden Ice; or Ranged javelin +20 (1d6+10/20x2) range 30'
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Base Atk +11/+6/+1; Grp +18
Atk Options: rage 3/day for 11 rnds, Foehammer 1/encounter, Thicket of Blades(stance)
Special Actions: Draconic Aura; Breath Weapon, Draconic Invocation: See the Unseen
Abilities Str 20(24), Dex 16(22), Con 20(22), Int 16, Wis 13, Cha 16
SQ Endure Elements (constant), All weapons and natural attacks count as +3 good and magical. Greater Sustenance (no need to eat, drink or breathe) , Deflection +2, Resistance +2, +6 Enhancement bonus to Dex, +4 Enhancement bonus to Str, +2 Enhancement bonus to Con, Freedom of Movement (constant), Uncanny Dodge (keep Dex when flatfooted)
Feats Close Quarters Fighting, Dual Draconic Aura, Enduring Life, Extra Rage, Improved Unarmed Strike, Martial Stance(Devoted Spirit:Thicket of Blades), Martial Study(Devoted Spirit:Foehammer), Sacred Vow, Skill Focus (Survival), Skill Focus (Swim), Two Weapon Fighting (unarmed only), Vow of Poverty(Hands of a Healer, Holy Radiance, Lliira's Blessing, Nimbus of Light, Righteous Wrath, Sanctify Martial Strike: Morningstar, Sanctify Natural Attack, Touch of Golden Ice, Vow of Obedience), Weapon Focus: Morningstar