Greetings,
Some time ago I started a playtesting thread for the alpha, it kind of got swept away as alpha two and alpha three sections to the message boards opened up so I sort of let it slide. Now I've decided to try again. Whether or not Bulmahn himself reads this amidst the slew of other threads is hard to say but at least it provides a place for me to organize my thoughts on all things PRPG.
I have to say certain aspects playtesting conflict with me. One might argue that in order to properly playtest a D&D variant game you must use a specific set of stats or a specific point buy system and then a set of other controls to limit the variables in the overall equation that is playing with the system. I say fie on that. Why? Well, the fact is when the PRPG is released in it's final form I won't be running my games in 'elite array' and I won't be running my games in 15 point stat point buy system. No, my PC's like to roll their stats and hell if they're going to have a 15 as their highest. If anything 25 point purchase is closer to their 'average' and that's just one aspect. One might also argue for playing nothing but PRPG made characters, again I say fie, what good is a backwards compatible system if you don't use those 3.5 books that are otherwise collecting dust on your shelf and reminding you about how you spent 30$ to 40$ on them? That's why one of my characters is a 4th level Cloistered Cleric with intuitive strike taking a level in warlock and the Eldritch Desciple prestige class. Suffice to say he is quite impressive.
So I will say I take into factor the uncontrolled variable. The games not bogged down by point buy or limited supplements... well, that's not true, anything third party isn't permitted though I do permit some things. Above cleric has wanted to bring in some old spells from as far back as 2nd edition that fit the goddess Desna. For those of you who disagree with this approach to playtesting, I apologize, but this might be considered the most solid sort of playtesting out there. The kind that takes into account the fact that not ever group(indeed I would say the vast majority) plays 100% by the written rule and I think it would be valuable to take that into account.
Even aside I would say views made by myself and my players are just as valid as others in regards to whether rules are balanced; we're all experienced players and have all played by different rules and I like to think we're all reasonably intelligent.
Moving on to the actual playtesting reports.
One thing I am getting is that Wizards seem to get quite a bit of love leaving the rest of the classes in the dust. They got an expectional upgrade with the combination of the arcane focus and the various abilities granted by their schools (particularly the generalist). I would not say this is bad but with an evoker and a generalist in my party I'm noticing things can get quite painful. In "The Skinsaw Murders" my players went up against the whole of the Skinsaw cult at once and cleaned them out in a matter of a couple rounds. The PC's were 5th level at the time and a well placed fireball took out the vast majority of 13 3rd level cultists with the rest of the enemies being taken out a mere two rounds later. I added a level of fighter to improve the enemies chances and help the PC's level as their characters were lagging behind with the medium xp progression, I'm not thinking that they're just fine being a level or two behind the modules given the power creep, even with the PRPG conversion of their foes and slight increases to enemies stats.
The party is now 6th level going into "Hook Mountain Massacre"
It consists of:
Bengiant Boldfellow: A halfling Cloistered Cleric 4, Warlock 1, Eldritch Desciple 1 with the Intuitive Strike feat to add to the mix. Needless to say quite a competent character occasionally outdoing the party fighter (occasionally) on successful attacks though not quite on damage. Looking at his planned final build I can add a 'yet' to the last sentence. He actually has a strong philosophical argument as to why Desna is the most powerful and influential goddess of the pantheon ranging from "What is battle but a series of lucky shots." to "She placed the stars in the sky and thus made the universe, did your god make the universe?" to "What is the sun but another star?" many other arguments, it's quite scary, he went far more indepth than that. I suppose that's what happens when a former philosophy major plays such a character.
Tek: His name is much longer but I'm lazy. He would be a 6th level generalist elven wizard. Now the player himself doesn't do much, he roleplays occasionally but he's mostly one of those players who participates for the social aspect and rolls dice. That being said it wasn't until the end of "Burnt Offerings" that he actually cast a spell and even then that was because he was being NPC'd. How'd this happen you ask? Well, it has to do with him being proficient with longswords and having the +1 longsword found in that very module and getting to add his considerable intelligence bonus to the damage. Suffice to say, the fact that he, a first level wizard, didn't cast a single spell beyond a cantrip through his entire first level says quite a lot in my opinion. He's working a lot more now and has taken his share of hits (our half orc dropped him to 1hp when he was Charmed, with one strike no less).
Ancrym: Half-Orc Fighter and wielder of the Earth Breaker. He often uses overhand chop to devastating effect and his Earth Breaker has splattered many a foe (PC and NPC alike no less). He's a grunt, pure and simple, though he's a skilled and educated grunt. You wouldn't know it from the fact that his character has a weapon lacking any elegance whatsoever but this half orc was educated. We used the educated fighter option from the Gazetteer granting him more skill points and skills to choose from. I honestly think there should be more 'feats' and substitutions like this aimed particularly at those 2 skill point a level classes. I'll be posting as much whenever the designers begin focusing on skills again. He suffers from standard fighter weaknesses such as having charm monster used on him by a certain Lamia and then dropping the party generalist to 1hp because he was the nearest poor soul to him, needless to say I think he's probably one of the most balanced party members.
Alister: 1/2 elf rogue. Also 6th level. Not a combat buff but his stealth and perception checks are off the charts. His character is solid and balanced well with the modules but suffers from crappy luck with the dice. We firmly believe it's because the dice gods are insulted that he carries them around in a plastic baggy.
Aaron: Our other spellcaster. The 1/2 elven Evoker. He has lain much waste to his enemies and I have to say that despite the fact that he dishes out the damage in combat (that is, after all, what evokers do) he is also about as balanced as a Wizard can be, which is to say he's more powerful than the majority of the party.
With five PC's I find myself increasing the number of their foes on occasion while. We advance using the medium advancement table and they've wiped the walls with many creatures. The rogue has proven considerably more effective now that his sneak attacks can apply to creatures normally immune. Sometimes this is too effective in my mind but compared to the damage everyone dishes out I'd say it's still fine in the combat area. Beyond that you have our cleric/warlock who is surprisingly capable in combat and spell caster. His player is a deadly breed, a former power gamer who is damn good at roleplaying and damn does he come up with good builds and good reasons for them.
We are about to begin Hook Mountain Massacre. I'm also about to start a second campaign with these players as well to be played every other week or so. I may place that in another thread along with playtest reports from my pbp players.
Anyway, I'm nodding off, I'll post again tomorrow. Thanks,
DoR
Playtest of PRPG Beta Rules
Campaign: Rise of the Runelords
CAUTION: Shameless Spoilers.
The players hit 7th level today. Er, yesterday.
After our last session I've decided to house rule Power Attack to a 3.5 variant that's essentially capping it at 6 points. I'll give my player the option of getting an improved version, if he desires, at a later date. Given that we're going up against Ogrekin and they've nearly killed a player twice a max of 8 points of damage from a power attack just isn't cutting it (The half orc fighter has an 18 strength) so I've decided to move back to 3.5's version scaling it down slightly by giving it a cap. It still lets him add +12 damage to his Earth Breaker if need be and all things considered: he needs it. Contrary to popular belief he doesn't waste much time with calculations, at least no more than a rogue might as they count up their sneak attack dice.
My note on this matter: PRPG Power Attack needs to change. I've mentioned my opinions on such in a thread on the topic unfortunately it seems the thread is decaying to a flaming battle between two oversized egos. That aside I've noted more people in favor of changing the Pathfinder feat than in favor of it which, in my not so humble opinion, signifies it at least needs to be changed. I personally believe it wasn't broke and thus didn't need to be fixed.
In the first encounter of the game they learned that the Grauls hit hard for deformed humans. They learned the hard way. Though it wasn't until they arrived at the farmstead that things really heated up. There were two rather nasty crits on the part of the Grauls in this game. The first one almost dropped the halforc with his 76hp. Thankfully the sixth level fighter had a lovely racial ability that kept him up and fighting and the party made short work of the ogrekin after that.
They immediately entered the barn and with a well placed fireball and three failed saving throws as well as a few uses of create water to quench any potential fires (though I ruled that the moldy hay hampered rapid spreading enough for them to make good use of the spell). I admit my knowledge of barns and the flamability of hay is limited but mold usually means moisture and thus not as flamable. Their fight with the pet spider was a little harder. They did some good damage and finished the thing off by round three but not until it's poison dropped the fighters strength to 7. The party cleric had the foresight to make a wand of Lesser Restoration during one of the periods of downtime and promptly got him back up and swinging. My thoughts as a GM: Finally, a poison that's actually effective. It's so rare to come across a poison or disease that poses any genuine threat to the party but this one and it's 22DC was a challenge even for the half-orc hammer swinger.
And yes, the newly power attack came in nicely there as the half orc was still able to swing wildly and use the momentum to carry the attack rather than his raw (and at that time mere 13 strength) and deal some actual damage. An attack that would have otherwise been able to get only a +3 bonus... well, +5 if you count Weapon Specialization, to damage.
They rescued the captives of the barn and used magic, water, and rations to help coax them back to the land of the living. There was an incredibly awkward reunion and some tears between the NPC's eventually, though, they found them a place in the nearby woods to camp out and wait while the PC's moved on to destroy the abominations that were the Grauls.
During this time we clarified the Acrobatics/tumbling rules. During our last session a combination of impatience and sleepiness caused a misunderstanding of the tumbling through threatened space and tumbling through occupied space rule. Somehow we were under the impression it was based on the enemies attack bonus total, not their base, if it had been things would have been difficult, as it was it was far more manageable for the rogue to tumble through a dc 21-23 threatened area rather than a DC 29-31 or something five points higher for moving through occupied space.
There were some grumblings about certain cleric spells being nerfed (Divine Power though if I recall the numbers were remarkably on par or at least not as bad as depicted) and how in the transition from Alpha to Beta the Wizards got more flexibility and power while the clerics remained unchanged. I admit I write off these complaints because they come from someone who has three domains. Not the most powerful combination of three domains possible but Luck, Travel and Knowledge aren't things to sneeze at either. That and this is a player who believes very few things considered too powerful (in 3.5 or 3.0) actually are. I'm not quite of the same mindset (Though I still say Spell Focus should have remained +2 :-P).
Beyond that the session was fairly smooth. They cringed and grimaced at how revolting the ogrekin were but otherwise went through the session with some difficulty in some places and ease in others. The fighter loves the overhand strike feat and uses it when he can. I feel I'll be tested soon. He's decided to try and get into the Dragon Disciple prestige class. It'll be countered by the slower attack progression but he'll still be a melee force to be reckoned with. If this were a game I was running on my own I might be hesitant, but I've read ahead, he'll need it. They'll all need it }:-) Though he'll have to explain this sudden change in RP terms. I'm not going to let him effectively become a half dragon that easily.
Anyway, things noted:
Power Attack: Needs to Change
Acrobatics as Tumbling: Works fine thus far.
Perception: There's some irritation that search is included in this now and that it's no longer an Int based skill. But in opposition there are players (the cleric mainly) who enjoy that it's included in Perception. Not smiled upon by the rogue or the wizards though.
Poison Use: Nice smooth system, I like it, no... I love it. Keeps things interesting and easy to figure out. Well, once you get familiar with it that is. And boy are we familiar with it. :-)
That's it for now. More to come next week.
Update: Sept 14, 2008
Not much to update. The game went fairly well though we were plagued by lack of players this time. PC's are infiltrating Fort Rannick and were quite surprised to encounter Lucrecia where they did. The traitor had made some damn good bluff checks so that part was a surprise which explained to them how the fort was overrun so easily. Suffice to say he was summarily executed. Lucrecia was a little more difficult and after 'cliche-but-fun villain join us speech #72' battle ensued and the PC's trounced her and her ally quite nicely. I admit my own RP and storytelling abilities seemed a bit lax in this particular session. Not sure what it was but my mojo was lacking.
Anyway, one of my players, the cleric of Desna with the luck domain, had a little dispute. The bit o'luck ability is practically useless as written so I modified it so that a player could choose whether to use it after the die was rolled. It only made sense and that put it on par with the 3.5 domain ability. Unfortunately he thought it was more of an any time thing and was upset when a failed attack roll couldn't be re-rolled. Either way I might start a thread on it.
Another player was upset when they found their boots of Elven Kind now apply their bonus to acrobatics rather than stealth. We can see the how and why behind it but it came as a bit of a downer to a player who liked the magic cloak they had. As it is we're just going to run with it as both are useful to the character (stealth simply would have been more useful at the time). The poor NPC ranger, Vale, had bad luck. I rolled randomly when they encountered the Specter and he was the target of it's touch attack and promptly got drained two levels. Later on our half-orc fighter and his nasty big hammer got charmed and, as Vale was right next to him, was on the receiving end of a full attack with said hammer combined with a 4 point power attack. He barely survived and only because I had updated him to PRPG and gave him toughness as well as some good hp, even then he had less than 5 remaining after that.
So, notes:
Boots of Elven Kind are begrudgingly accepted, the change was more of a unexpected thing as we're all long time gamers and face it: they've always been about the stealth. Again, we see where it's coming from but it's a touch annoying. Like getting a parking ticket after being an hour late to the meter. You don't like it but you kind of have to accept it.
The other thing of note: Luck domain. My gods. What is so over powering about being able to choose to make the reroll AFTER the initial roll is made? Seriously, are you intentionally trying to gimp this ability? Just seems rediculous. The Original luck domain was fine with picking it after and wasn't too powerful that way either. You even have a time limit. I know it's something I'm going to end up house ruling (already did actually) but I'd like to see some common sense exercised and have it made official. Alas I'll probably be shot down from the same type of people who thought a +2 to Spell Focus was too powerful but *shrug*. Either way, something needs to be done about that.
Nothing more beyond that.