I just got back from a low-key, work-related party, which featured a party game. I just suddenly had the thought, “Would it be possible to make an RPG party game?”
Okay, after everyone finishes spewing their Mountain Dew on their computer screen.
Really though. I haven’t thought all this out (obviously) and may post more later, but I thought I'd throw this out now and see what everyone else thinks.
Please don’t post, “Go play 4e!”
The party game edition would need really quick, easy character creation, but with plenty of choices and some character variation. Combat would also have to be really simple, quick, concise, and definitive. It would also likely need to work without miniatures and a grid map, so heavy battlefield tactics would be discouraged. There would need to be character social interaction rules, but they should be quickly resolvable with a dice roll, on the assumption that people at a party are not going to want to heavily get into character (unless they’ve been drinking heavily).
Actually, these rules need to be learnable and playable by people who may be half-drunk, so also all record keeping for characters, monsters, and NPC’s needs to pretty simple as well. In a similar vein, characters will probably need some “fate-like” points that can be played in case they do something dumb in the first encounter that would otherwise get them killed.
I haven’t played or seen any of the Pathfinder Society scenarios, but from what I’ve heard, this might be the kind of adventures that might work in this kind of setting. Something that could play inside of four hours, give the players a more than reasonable chance of success, no “shopping at the bazaar” during the adventure, just straight-up adventuring (fighting, parleying, puzzle solving), and a clear objective. Consider all these games to be one-shots, no leveling up. Characters would be created at the appropriate power level for the adventure. Perhaps the idea of levels could be dispensed with altogether in some fashion.
Bottom line. Paizo creates “Pathfinder RPG: The Party Game” edition, a small softcover book. And then sells lots of easy to run, scenario pdf’s for the game on their website. They make lots of money and RPG’s become a mainstream, fad rage at parties everywhere.
As a very casual RPG-style game, I suggest the Munchkin card games. However, I don't think this is quite what you're looking for.
"Party Games" are usually very rules light and prop light. It's going to be hard to turn a 400-page-rulebook game requiring dice, pencils, paper (and possibly minis and maps), into a game that can be learned in 5-10 minutes and can be played with <2 minutes prep time.
[moved to Pathfinder RPG forum]
I was kind of hoping somebody from Paizo would reply with,
"Worst. Idea. Ever."
I realize the futility of suggesting a simplified rules set in this forum, but if you step a little bit outside the box, I think there's some merit to this idea. Why couldn't this work at a casual dinner party that doesn't involve drunken table dancing? There are already mystery party games, where people play parts. It's a reasonable ice-breaker, if the people don't know each other well. Pathfinder would have all the options available in 3.5 D&D, without the knee-jerk, bad vibes, mainstream name recognition of Dungeons and Dragons.
I don't see condensing the rules down as the main issue. It would be preping and running the game. That's why I suggested selling small modules to go with it. Enterprising party hosts might make up their own scenarios and the rules book should have a chapter on that, but I don't see these type of games as any sort of elaborate campaign. People who want more can be directed to the Pathfinder RPG proper.
As soon as I'm able able, I'll post whatever more specific ideas I come up with. Anybody else who's interested, please toss in your ideas.
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There have been similar discussions about creating a basic game for beginners and kids. You might check out Microlite20. Super basic d20, but fast and fun. I played a Thieves' World adaptation at a Con and had a blast.
Totally. In fact, WotC had a good, similar idea with the Facebook app "Tiny Adventures" (though they screwed the pooch on execution and it had to be taken down). Rulesets of varied "lightness."
"Could Dos"
- put out a simpler game, like the old Basic/Expert/etc set.
- host some Golarion-themed virtual worlds - no rules required - like them kids are into nowadays
- variant stripped-down party games - think "Kobolds Ate My Baby" with Pathfinder goblins, etc.
Flogging the dead horse some more.
Variations on a Pathfinder Basic set have come up in threads, but to my knowledge, no one from Paizo has made any comments on them. Perhaps a definitive, "No, this is outside of what we're trying to do here for the forseable future," or a "We'll see how well Pathfinder does before we seriously consider a variant," would be helpful.
Back to the party game, I am really thinking of a full RPG experience: players roll up characters, DM takes them on an adventure, free-form entertainment ensues. You'll still need the dice, but unlike Monopoly, you won't need the board or the tokens and hopefully the participants will get a memorable experience on top of it (something a board game, by and large, doesn't give you.)
Thinking out loud. An RPG without levels or leveling up, but still able to scale encounters to face totally different types of opponents. Still thinking.
Mosaic, how do you recover Hit Points in Microlite? Is the rule in there or am I just missing it?
I have seen this RPG-as-party-game done (and participated myself). The thing is, it works better if you keep on throwing out rules, to the point that character sheet is an empty paper where you just write what your character is like, and throwing dice can be done in simple high-low method. So making a rules system for this kind of works against the purpose.
Now, if Paizo would decide to make some nice party board or card game, that would be great (knowing several non-RPgamers who still enjoy playing Munchkin a lot).
magdalena thiriet wrote: I have seen this RPG-as-party-game done (and participated myself). The thing is, it works better if you keep on throwing out rules, to the point that character sheet is an empty paper where you just write what your character is like, and throwing dice can be done in simple high-low method. So making a rules system for this kind of works against the purpose.
Now, if Paizo would decide to make some nice party board or card game, that would be great (knowing several non-RPgamers who still enjoy playing Munchkin a lot).
Your party game sounds something like a FUDGE-based RPG game. Since you've actually tried this kind of game, I'll take your word for it that it doesn't work too well.
I was working on this last night and it was starting to look like an unholy union of FUDGE and 4e, and nothing to do with Pathfinder. 4e does have several concepts in it that would make it easy to learn and play on a whim like a board game (minions, self-healing, limited spell powers). (Disclaimer: NOT an endorsement of 4e.)
Will RPG's be confined to the geek ghetto forever?
jdh417 wrote: Will RPG's be confined to the geek ghetto forever? Not if you convince them it's something else. You say RPG or D&D and a lot of people are instantly turned off for various reasons. However I've enjoyed murder mystery party games with people who wouldn't be caught dead playing an RPG and they loved it. The party game was essentially what you are striving for; an RPG party game light on the rules and heavy on the inebriated fun.
I think you'd be much happier, and have an easier task, if you bought one of those murder mystery party games. Then analyzed the rules and mechanics of it. Use the mechanics in your favorite setting and reformulate it into what you envision.
Penny Sue wrote: jdh417 wrote: Will RPG's be confined to the geek ghetto forever? Not if you convince them it's something else. You say RPG or D&D and a lot of people are instantly turned off for various reasons. However I've enjoyed murder mystery party games with people who wouldn't be caught dead playing an RPG and they loved it. The party game was essentially what you are striving for; an RPG party game light on the rules and heavy on the inebriated fun.
I think you'd be much happier, and have an easier task, if you bought one of those murder mystery party games. Then analyzed the rules and mechanics of it. Use the mechanics in your favorite setting and reformulate it into what you envision. Or try to use a game that they don't suspect is a role-playing game. I'm rather fond of getting people at parties to play The Extraordinary Adventures of Baron Münchhausen, then tell them later that it's not so differant from other games, and sometimes they get rather curious about it.
also, check out that game for everyone who doesn't know it.
kessukoofah wrote: Penny Sue wrote: jdh417 wrote: Will RPG's be confined to the geek ghetto forever? Not if you convince them it's something else. You say RPG or D&D and a lot of people are instantly turned off for various reasons. However I've enjoyed murder mystery party games with people who wouldn't be caught dead playing an RPG and they loved it. The party game was essentially what you are striving for; an RPG party game light on the rules and heavy on the inebriated fun.
I think you'd be much happier, and have an easier task, if you bought one of those murder mystery party games. Then analyzed the rules and mechanics of it. Use the mechanics in your favorite setting and reformulate it into what you envision. Or try to use a game that they don't suspect is a role-playing game. I'm rather fond of getting people at parties to play The Extraordinary Adventures of Baron Münchhausen, then tell them later that it's not so differant from other games, and sometimes they get rather curious about it.
also, check out that game for everyone who doesn't know it. Like most of the people posting here, I've had plenty of good RPG experiences and even some of the bad ones were memorable in a funny sort of way, while my memories any board or card games I've played is scant at best. I find it a crying shame that everyone can't participate in this type of social entertainment. Whether due to D&D's undeserved bad reputation, the stereotype of the nerdy gamer (not entirely undeserved), or due to the impenetrable nature of overly complex rules, RPG's do not seem destined for mainstream acceptance.
Card games, storytelling games, and improv acting games are great, but they're not adventures like an RPG. Right now, there's no rules set out there that can be learned and played by an entire group of novices in a short period of time. In-person, sitting around a table adventuring is a great idea and always will be, but how much longer is the hobbyist RPG going to be around? 4e seems more wargame than RPG, and wargames are definitely for hobbyists. Before online services eat up the rest of the market, RPG's need to be pushed into a wider audience before they go away.
Pathfinder is a good way for Paizo to service their existing customers and perhaps pick up some disaffected ones from WOTC, but it's just a little declining niche market. Take your Pathfinder brand, your tremendous setting, your big gaming brains, and start thinking about, "How can I get more people to play RPG's!"
I can see it now:
New at Paizo - Nick Logue's "How To Host A Hook Mountain Massacre"
Dementrius wrote: I can see it now:
New at Paizo - Nick Logue's "How To Host A Hook Mountain Massacre"
Then WOTC gets into the act - Introducing our new "Tomb of Horrors" party game. It only takes 10 minutes to play!
Okay, my last post was a little overwrought. I'll let this turkey go.
I think for this to work it would have to be set up like a miniatures battle game with pregen characters.
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