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I've noticed a bunch of Cancel Subsription threads popping up lately.
What gives? Is it older subscribers giving up? New subscribers trying it out and not liking it? Switching to 4th Edition? Unhappiness with product direction? Economic factors?
I'm just curious if there is some large-scale explanation at work.
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I've been looking at them. When an explanation is given, it's almost always financial reasons. That said, a lot of the rest are probably people who are going 4e and don't want to do conversions. Many people also seem to be canceling chronicles subscriptions after the hardcover came out; I guess they feel they have enough material for a campaign. Some appear to be satisfied with running the Pathfinder adventures they have now before getting new ones.
Director of Brand Strategy
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I've noticed a bunch of Cancel Subsription threads popping up lately.
What gives? Is it older subscribers giving up? New subscribers trying it out and not liking it? Switching to 4th Edition? Unhappiness with product direction? Economic factors?
I'm just curious if there is some large-scale explanation at work.
Ebb and flow. I think it's a combination of people not wanting to pay for a huge backlog of adventures they might never get to, as well as (and probably moreso) economic hardship. I for one have debated canceling a sub or two to help out the monthly bills, but I have my priorities.
I suspect it's because Curse of the Crimson Throne just ended and Second Darkness started up. They want to cancel at the end of a path. Makes sense to me.
Economic factors?
~$20 a month is ~$20 a month. That's ~$240 a year.
Agreeing with the previous posters, I'm sure most people have a large back-log of 3.X adventures they haven't gotten to yet, so justifying the expense to add to the ever-increasing pile can be hard.
Also, I've never known of any other sort of service where cancellations are on a public portion of a board. It's a normal thing for many people to cancel for various reasons, but most of us have never been exposed to that facet of subscription business.
If it helps any, I'm a new subscriber.
As stated it is probably down to having enough adventures to last for ages.
Take me as an example, my group only meets once per week for about 4-5 hours. Taking holidays, missed sessions and so forth, it means we take around 18 months to do an AP. So even with the first 2 AP's, I am good for another 2-3 years.
So do I really need the other AP's? The answer is no. I still have the APs from the Dungeon mags that we never got round to doing.
In my case there is no way I will cancel my subscription to them, so I will carry on filling my D&D shelf with their excellent products, even if some of them never get used. For a lot of people I could see the monthly bill being a problem.
My case (Are you asking for case by case reasons or just general explanations and reasons? ) Is very financial. I stopped half way through Crimson throne path with the hopes of restarting when the second darkness was to begin. Unfortunately my finances are way behind and this is really my only personal expense that I can cut back on.
If I had my way I would purchase back copies of what I've missed so far and restart my subscription whilst adding the gazzeteers to the bill.
I didt so much buy the 2nd pathfinder series for the actual adventures but more for the fluff they have inside; new monster, details about Gods and information about different geographical areas etc.)
If they weren't in each pathfinder module I'd be quiet happy to stop buying them after I has bought the first pathfinder series.
[Also, I've never known of any other sort of service where cancellations are on a public portion of a board. It's a normal thing for many people to cancel for various reasons, but most of us have never been exposed to that facet of subscription business.
Good point!
Which is why when I cancelled I done it via email. Seemed a bit more respectfull/ sensible.|
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In my case it was financial reasons, and the timing just happened to be because my players hate drow and drow themed adventures, so they told me not to get this one or if i did they wouldn't play it. also, they have no intenetion to switch to Pathfinder, so I would have had to cancel sooner or later. I may pick it up again for the next path (I love Gnolls), but prolly cancel again soon after that.
My question is why people feel the need to declare their cancellation in a thread instead of sending a discreet e-mail to Customer Service. is it that they didn't know they could do that, or that they felt some need to come forward and tell everyone? i'm quite perplexed by this.
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After August's shipments I can understand people having less money to throw around. Ouch. With both APs and the Campaign Setting HC, if my subs weren't a yearly birthday gift it would have been my entire gaming budget for 3 months. As it stands, I have been picking up extra shifts just to afford the stuff I buy myself on the side. ;)
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My question is why people feel the need to declare their cancellation in a thread instead of sending a discreet e-mail to Customer Service. is it that they didn't know they could do that, or that they felt some need to come forward and tell everyone? i'm quite perplexed by this.
Nothing more than its really convenient to be able to post it on the messageboard and be done. My experience is that emails take a lot longer to be responded to, than the messageboard.
Robert
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My question is why people feel the need to declare their cancellation in a thread instead of sending a discreet e-mail to Customer Service. is it that they didn't know they could do that, or that they felt some need to come forward and tell everyone? i'm quite perplexed by this.
Nothing more than its really convenient to be able to post it on the messageboard and be done. My experience is that emails take a lot longer to be responded to, than the messageboard.
Robert
that...makes a lot of sense actually. i hadn't considered that possibility.
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Some others are starting subscriptions now. Like me (I was a Charter Subscriber, I added Companion and Chronicles this week).
But mysteriously it's not showing anything after your username to that effect. Or is that something we can control?
I just became a superscriber last week (having signed up for the APs earlier in the week). Lubs me some Paizo material and Lisa said (in another thread) that superscribers might average $50 a month over the course of the year, which is less than I spent on 3.x over the last year and a half, I'd say.
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Another thing I've wondered about, particularly with the Chronicles in which line the Campaign setting is released, is whether any people do subscription-dipping to get the pdf bundled along with the hard copy (which you only get added in for no extra cost if you're a subscriber). Or is there a minimum limit to subscription duration?
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Director of Sales
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I've noticed a bunch of Cancel Subscription threads popping up lately.
What gives? Is it older subscribers giving up? New subscribers trying it out and not liking it? Switching to 4th Edition? Unhappiness with product direction? Economic factors?
I'm just curious if there is some large-scale explanation at work.
To be perfectly honest, there has not been any more than usual. It seems like there have been more threads recently for two reasons.
First, there is always going to be an upsurge in cancellations at the end of an Adventure Path. This happened at the end of Rise of the Runelords and was expected at the end of Curse of the Crimson Throne. Happily, however, this time the number of end-of-path cancellations was WAY lower than last time.
The expected cancellations were actually something we were worried about when it became clear that Pathfinder #12 and #13 would have to ship together in order to avoid gouging all of our subscribers with excessive shipping and handling fees. After many meetings where we discussed the possibility and feasibility of various ways of artificially manufacturing a window to cancel #13 without canceling #12, while still getting them shipped to all subscribers as quickly as possible, we came to the conclusion that the best way to do this was exactly how we did it. We kept a list of these cancellations and manually edited the orders on this (surprisingly and thankfully small) list after they were created and before they shipped.
The other main reason that you're seeing the cancellation threads is that I spent a majority of last week downstairs in the warehouse, helping the Warehouse Monkeys ship one of the biggest single-month product rollouts (and, happily again, most successful) in Paizo history. This meant that I left all of Paizo Customer Service (messageboards, emails, and phone calls) on Alison's shoulders. She did an excellent job keeping up, but there is only so much one person can do. Generally these subscription threads pop up, get answered, then drop off quickly. However, this past week they have been sitting there a little longer than usual. Rest assured that we are going to get back on top of the Customer Service threads quickly.
Finally, Mikaze nailed it on the head. You see these cancellations. You don't necessarily see the new subs that way more than make up for them. :)
Thanks,
cos
I blame Cosmo. Now whether that is a good or bad thing, I leave to the readers imagination! ~grins and RUNS~
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In my case when I started coming to this website I saw cancellation threads on the customer service messageboard and assumed that was how they did it. I think that's why you see so many threads, a lot of newbies came cause of the RPG and they see them like I did and assume that that was how you cancelled subscriptions. I mean it's not like theres a banner that says cancel by e-mail prefered.
I plan to restart mine asafp but I just had to many bills to pay this month. I love the APs and the fact that it'll be possible for me to collect every one at a mere 20$ a month once I collect all my back issues that I don't have yet #7, 8, 12, 13 will satisfy my annoying collectors bug. I hate that there's not a subscribers tag to my name but sometimes electricity has to come before new pathfinder goodness.
What? Doesn't everybody read by candlelight like I do? :)
What? Doesn't everybody read by candlelight like I do? :)
~LAUGHTER~
Just to add my input, I recently cancelled as it was the end of the AP, and I really want to play the next one. While I can keep player knowledge separate, I'd rather know as little about what is in store as possible.
I've noticed a bunch of Cancel Subscription threads popping up lately.
What gives? Is it older subscribers giving up? New subscribers trying it out and not liking it? Switching to 4th Edition? Unhappiness with product direction? Economic factors?
I'm just curious if there is some large-scale explanation at work.
To be perfectly honest, there has not been any more than usual. It seems like there have been more threads recently for two reasons.
First, there is always going to be an upsurge in cancellations at the end of an Adventure Path. This happened at the end of Rise of the Runelords and was expected at the end of Curse of the Crimson Throne. Happily, however, this time the number of end-of-path cancellations was WAY lower than last time.
The expected cancellations were actually something we were worried about when it became clear that Pathfinder #12 and #13 would have to ship together in order to avoid gouging all of our subscribers with excessive shipping and handling fees. After many meetings where we discussed the possibility and feasibility of various ways of artificially manufacturing a window to cancel #13 without canceling #12, while still getting them shipped to all subscribers as quickly as possible, we came to the conclusion that the best way to do this was exactly how we did it. We kept a list of these cancellations and manually edited the orders on this (surprisingly and thankfully small) list after they were created and before they shipped.
The other main reason that you're seeing the cancellation threads is that I spent a majority of last week downstairs in the warehouse, helping the Warehouse Monkeys ship one of the biggest single-month product rollouts (and, happily again, most successful) in Paizo history. This meant that I left all of Paizo Customer Service (messageboards, emails, and phone calls) on Alison's shoulders. She did an excellent job keeping up, but there...
I shee dem. I shee everything wiff dish magic left doll eye I gyat frum shyumwersh. I NO SAY WHERE!!!!
Congrats, Ozric. I hope you enjoy!If it helps any, I'm a new subscriber.
Thanks! I've no doubt that I'll enjoy them, and I can't wait to get my first products.
I just need to decide what ruleset to use with them. I'm thinking about using C&C with a simple skill and feat system bolted on, then maybe trying out the Pathfinder RPG beta when I have more free time.
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Congrats, Ozric. I hope you enjoy!If it helps any, I'm a new subscriber.
Thanks! I've no doubt that I'll enjoy them, and I can't wait to get my first products.
I just need to decide what ruleset to use with them. I'm thinking about using C&C with a simple skill and feat system bolted on, then maybe trying out the Pathfinder RPG beta when I have more free time.
You may want to go back and fill in the gaps; rise of the Runelords was classic awesome on a stick.
If I like them, I'm sure I will. I'm kinda compulsive like that.
I suspect it's because Curse of the Crimson Throne just ended and Second Darkness started up. They want to cancel at the end of a path. Makes sense to me.
I'm in this boat. I didn't want CotCT. The next two adventure paths intrigue me greatly though.
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I suspect it's because Curse of the Crimson Throne just ended and Second Darkness started up. They want to cancel at the end of a path. Makes sense to me.I'm in this boat. I didn't want CotCT. The next two adventure paths intrigue me greatly though.
CoCT was actually a really cool adventure path, but even if that isn't to your liking, those volumes contain:
chase rules
plague rules
Red Mantis Assassins
bestiary entries (including cinderwolves, chained spirits, Akaruzug, Contract devils, nosferatu vampires, bonestorms, havero, umbral dragons, and soulbound dolls)
Deity write-ups for Abadar and Zon-Kuthon
Tons of info about the Shoanti, both in article and fiction form.
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Cosmo thanks for the explanation, I still wince each time I see one.
I would suggest adding a "flag this as public" for those customer service threads whch contain information useful to more than one person.
Ooo! That is a neat idea, it might even make Cosmo and Alison's jobs a bit easier if they can search the Paizo-staff-only messages. Also, you wouldn't get some confusion with other people posting on the important threads.
Thanks for the feedback, Cosmo! As your response illustrated it is a combination of factors, and nothing for a Paizo fanboy to worry about.
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CEO
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If I like them, I'm sure I will. I'm kinda compulsive like that.
Just a bit of a warning. We are down to the final copies of Pathfinders #1, #3, #5, and #6. I expect that they will be out of print in the next month or so. We have stopped selling them to distributors in order to have our final few copies available here on paizo.com. If you are looking into filling in the gaps on the older volumes, you might want to do it soon. We recently reprinted Pathfinder #2 and have a decent stock left, but we don't plan to reprint any of the other Pathfinder volumes at this time, so when they are gone, they will be gone!
-Lisa
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If I like them, I'm sure I will. I'm kinda compulsive like that.Just a bit of a warning. We are down to the final copies of Pathfinders #1, #3, #5, and #6. I expect that they will be out of print in the next month or so. We have stopped selling them to distributors in order to have our final few copies available here on paizo.com. If you are looking into filling in the gaps on the older volumes, you might want to do it soon. We recently reprinted Pathfinder #2 and have a decent stock left, but we don't plan to reprint any of the other Pathfinder volumes at this time, so when they are gone, they will be gone!
-Lisa
Thanks for the heads up, Lisa! I just picked up #3 from my FLGS, so I will be sure to nab 4-6 this week.
Also, I still need 7-10. How is the Paizo stock looking for those? My FLGS only has #10.
Doh! Now I have to buy them earlier than planned, but that's okay =)
I signed up for my subscription a couple days ago. If I were to buy older Adventure Path books, do I get the .pdf versions for free? Or does that deal only for each month's current book?
For the record I cancelled mine due to economic hardship. Due to the government failing to take care of its disabled veterans in a timely fashion. They ruined my wifes health over 3 years ago (Army) and still have yet to rate her (Veterans Administration). Stupid us for expecting to be taken care of in a timely fashion.
Anyways, once the VA Administrators decide to listen to the doctors, and pay my wife what she is due, I will be able to subscribe again. Could be a couple of more years, though.
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Just a bit of a warning. We are down to the final copies of Pathfinders #1, #3, #5, and #6. I expect that they will be out of print in the next month or so. We have stopped selling them to distributors in order to have our final few copies available here on paizo.com. If you are looking into filling in the gaps on the older volumes, you might want to do it soon. We recently reprinted Pathfinder #2 and have a decent stock left, but we don't plan to reprint any of the other Pathfinder volumes at this time, so when they are gone, they will be gone!
Is this the plan? That eventually the early APs will go out of print? So in 2014, when the fourteenth Path is coming out, the first six or seven Paths will no longer be available in stores?
Will they remain available as pdfs? That's interesting. I had wondered how you were going to keep them all in print, but I guess you just won't.
Writes note to self: Get off ass and pick up PF#6.
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Is this the plan? That eventually the early APs will go out of print? So in 2014, when the fourteenth Path is coming out, the first six or seven Paths will no longer be available in stores?
From what I've gotten off of here, it depends on the demand, and even then, it took almost over 6 months for the reprint #2s to come in....
And my subscription items shipped today, so I should have them soon. I've looked through the .pdf's a little bit already and they look very impressive.
I saw # 7-9 at the local Barnes and noble. Slim picking for paizo stuff there though.
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And when those go out of print (for a while) my extra copies of one and two will be on ebay... Muah ha ha ha.... (I love it when an evil plan comes together). Don't know if I would want to do that for all of them but I thought for issue 1 and 2 (especially after 2 went out of print so fast) I would pick up several extras and hold them until they were worth something.
A few months ago before issue 2 was reprinted it was going for $50.00 on ebay. I expect these will be rare in another couple of years.
I just ordered all 6 volumes, so I'm good =)
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In case anyone's curious, The Sentry Box in Calgary still has all 6 (#1-6) in stock, like 2 or 3 each if i remember. it was last sunday though...
They also had a bunch of other Paizo stuff in stock too. the first half of the second AP, the gamemaster modules, the flip mats, etc. I was surprised, kinda. If anyone here ever passes through Calgary at some time, make it a point to stop there. it's worth it.
(incidently, they also have shelves of older and out of print stuff. I just picked up three books worth of the old Grimtooth's Traps books. that is now my second favorite store after the comic shop right across the street from my house.)
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Just a bit of a warning. We are down to the final copies of Pathfinders #1, #3, #5, and #6. I expect that they will be out of print in the next month or so. We have stopped selling them to distributors in order to have our final few copies available here on paizo.com. If you are looking into filling in the gaps on the older volumes, you might want to do it soon. We recently reprinted Pathfinder #2 and have a decent stock left, but we don't plan to reprint any of the other Pathfinder volumes at this time, so when they are gone, they will be gone!Is this the plan? That eventually the early APs will go out of print? So in 2014, when the fourteenth Path is coming out, the first six or seven Paths will no longer be available in stores?
Will they remain available as pdfs? That's interesting. I had wondered how you were going to keep them all in print, but I guess you just won't.
Writes note to self: Get off ass and pick up PF#6.
I imagine they will always be around in PDF form. I can't see a reason they would ever stop offering them that way.
It is amazing that such a recession has hit most companies but Paizo is skyrocketing. If WotC is looking for points of light, they need only look at Paizo. Heheh. Use the "Find the Right Step" using the Paizo Class. Schooled!
Cheers,
Zuxius
I don't have any facts to support this, but I have heard it said that the gaming industry does it's best when the economy is at its highest- because people have discretionary income to blow...
...And when it is at its lowest. The rationale being that compared to a meal out at a restaurant or a movie, a game or gaming product is a reusable and lasting form of entertainment.
Having said that, I think there is something to be said about Paizo's business model and strong emphasis on the Adventure Path. The average RPG gamer is older than they used to be, and a quality Adventure Path is a godsend when free time for preparation is at a premium.
You see that reflected in WOTC adoption of the AP concept, and the fact that a design goal of 4E was reducing prep time.