When you ask a question, then answer it yourself, you basically announce that you're done listening to other opinions. That's fine. We've both had our say on the topic. I'm still in favor of it, or something like it. You think it's unnecessary. Neither one of us is going to budge, so I think it's best just to move on.What is the benefit to the game of encouraging archtypical class/ race combinations?
As far as I am concerned there is no benefit to this.
Actually, when I ask a question then answer it myself it is because I want you to understand where I'm coming from. You don't seem at all interested in sharing your perspective beyond "I like favored class". I don't see that as a justification, I see it as a preference, much like "I like red".
For example, I understand the whole idea of discouraging multi classing to some extent because excessing multi classing is a common tactic used by optimizers to take advantage of game mechanics. I don't agree with that idea but I understand it.
What I do not understand is why it's important to have a game system that reinforces archetypes.
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I think the whole concept of favored classes should be introduces more subtly. Racial feats can be fun (especially if they are available after 1st level) and designer can orient them in any direction they want.There has to be more options and already, I've been reading some promising ideas.
I've already had my say on the current rule. This thread is all about other options. I'm as interested as anyone to hear ideas. I just don't want the concept to be lost.
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I've already had my say on the current rule. This thread is all about other options. I'm as interested as anyone to hear ideas. I just don't want the concept to be lost.
I think the whole concept of favored classes should be introduces more subtly. Racial feats can be fun (especially if they are available after 1st level) and designer can orient them in any direction they want.There has to be more options and already, I've been reading some promising ideas.
What I have suggested in a similar thread is
PF arbitrarily assigns ONE class as the favored class to each race - most likely the one that has historically been the races' synergistic class: i.e. Dwarf fighter, half-orc barbarian, halfling rogue, elf wizard, etc.
The player then selects ONE secondard class (his/her choice) to be his favored class.
Favored class mechanics work the same as written in PF rules (+1 hp / skill per level of favored class taken).
What this does is:
a) 3rd edition included a 20% xp penalty to discourage min/maxing multi-classing (cherry-picking classes) etc - but it did NOT penalize single-class PCs that stuck to one class - even if that class was not their 'favored class'
b) it allows a PC in PF to choose a race/class combo that is not their stereo-typed and if they stick to that class and the actual favored class they gain the benefit one would if they stuck to the arbitrary class. Thus a Dwarf can freely multi-class a fighter with whatever one other class the player selected - this is akin to the fighter class being discluded in deciding if it was to have an xp penalty. So a dwarf can now be a fighter/rogue in PF and still gain the favored class bonus throughout it's career. If it opts to cherrypick a level of barbarian or cleric or other it would not gain the benefit.
I feel this system would solve the issue of those who feel that NOT getting the favored class bonus for playing a dwarven rogue is penalizing, AND keep the favored class concept that many of us enjoy (myself included) for the "role" and flavor of it within the game structure, AND it still discourages rampant multi-classing.
This is how I'm going to structure it in my game.
That all being said - as a side note - I am not against the idea of racial (and regional) feats existing in the game.
I for one do not consider a lack of a bonus to be a penalty. If my co-worker got "employee of the year" and won his $500.00 bonus, I do not consider that the same as saying that I just lost $500.00.
Robert
On the whole "Bonus vs. penalty": A penalty is something that hurts a character. In my opinion, that means a negative bonus, or (often ignored) where balance plays against the character. For example, playing without a spontaneous cure casting character in the party is a penalty. Why? Because game balance, and expected survivability of the group is DESIGNED around having those healing spells available.
If the number of skill points a class receives is designed around "and remember, a Dwarf Fighter gets 3+ INT, not 2+INT if he wants", then the favored class bonus has become a standard thing, and not having it is a penalty.