Crits, sneaks, and immunity thereto


New Rules Suggestions


So I had this idea about immunity to crits and sneaks. Immunity sucks - it's a gamebreaker, and it makes certain classes (rogues) pretty well useless.

The idea: creatures that normally have immunity gain minor, lesser, or greater resistance. Minor would be 1/2 damage on sneaks and 1 less multiplier on crits (so a greataxe would do x2 damage on a crit instead of x3); lesser is 1/3 damage and 2 less; greater is 1/4 damage and 3 less.

Elementals and oozes* would get greater resistance; constructs and undead have lesser; and plants would have minor. Incorporeal creatures are still immune.

*Oozes have greater resistance to crits and immunity to sneaks because of their lack of a discernable anatomy.

On a semi-related note, I was thinking about crits on the way home from work, and I came up with another idea for dealing with them. Let's face it - randomly-rolled crits kinda suck. You roll a nat 20, confirm the crit... and roll minimum damage. WTF? So I thought of this:

Either the first die of damage is automatically maxed (so a longsword deals 8+1d8 damage),

or all but the last die of damage are maxed. For example, a greataxe (x3) would deal 20+1d10; a scythe (x4) would deal 24+2d4.

I'm not sure about the second option, since it would make high-crit weapons exceptionally powerful, but I think at least the first die should be maxed, to properly reward rolling a critical hit.


Regarding the first:

Pathfinder is already doing a number to crit/SA immune critters. ALOT of formerly immune's won't be any longer.

Regarding the second:

At low levels the die matters but as you get into middle, and then later levels the die roll is really not the important part.

Big 2-handed wielders are doing /far/ more damage in strength/magic/addons than the die roll of the weapon, such that rolling a 1 in one of the 2-3 dice they get really isn't a big issue.

just my .02

-S

Dark Archive

The new rules support a huge range of creatures snekeables by the rogue (undeads, constructs...). If you have inmunity to critical strikes...well, go back and let the "real" fighters do his work.

In my opinion, the most important thing for the rogue is to strike, you can have a +0 to the str attribute but your sneak attack can be 8d6.


True.

But unlike the fighter, who gets all his bonuses on every single weapon swing, the rogue is only effective if flanking or has somehow otherwise met the requirements of Sneak Attack.

-S


I did away with the weapon multipliers altogether, but I left the threat range of weapon alone.

The system I have is similar to what you said, maximum weapon damage + misc damage modifiers (i.e. Str, magical weapon, etc..) + roll the weapon damage. For example a longsword would be 8 + misc damage modifiers + 1d8.

I found the 3.5 system was flawed when dealing with crits. Sometimes you did more damage on a regular hit than you did the critical. The way I did crits elimiates that flawed system and really simplified it. Now, there are many ways someone can come up with doing crits, but I found it really works great.

Dark Archive

That fails in high level, when you wear a longsword, you have str +6 and wour weapon is +3

Normal Damage: 1d8 +9 (range between 10 and 17)
Critical:1d8+9*2 (20 and 34)

With your rule for criticals: will be 8 + 9 + 1d8 (range between 18 and 27)

I keep the old rule, and imagine add your intelligence bonus for damage, or any misc modifiers. In that way the best deal to make damage is, in my opinion, to duplicate it.

Anfalas, the One True God wrote:

I did away with the weapon multipliers altogether, but I left the threat range of weapon alone.

The system I have is similar to what you said, maximum weapon damage + misc damage modifiers (i.e. Str, magical weapon, etc..) + roll the weapon damage. For example a longsword would be 8 + misc damage modifiers + 1d8.

I found the 3.5 system was flawed when dealing with crits. Sometimes you did more damage on a regular hit than you did the critical. The way I did crits elimiates that flawed system and really simplified it. Now, there are many ways someone can come up with doing crits, but I found it really works great.


Gabriel Albasombria wrote:

That fails in high level, when you wear a longsword, you have str +6 and wour weapon is +3

Normal Damage: 1d8 +9 (range between 10 and 17)
Critical:1d8+9*2 (20 and 34)

With your rule for criticals: will be 8 + 9 + 1d8 (range between 18 and 27)

I keep the old rule, and imagine add your intelligence bonus for damage, or any misc modifiers. In that way the best deal to make damage is, in my opinion, to duplicate it.

Not really. At high level your going to have weapons that deal additional damage (i.e. flaming, frost, bane, holy, etc...), or be buffed in some manner (i.e. magical items/spells) to give you extra damage.

Remember the 3.5 system when dealing with crits is broken. When you deal more damage with a normal hit than a critical it is broken. All I'm saying is the system I use fixes that issue and its real simple. The same effect can be applied when dealing with mosters that scores critical hits.

Sovereign Court

Anfalas, the One True God wrote:
Remember the 3.5 system when dealing with crits is broken. When you deal more damage with a normal hit than a critical it is broken.

Not broken, dislikable yes, broken hardly, the game does not shut down because someone dealt six damage on a critical. And really the only time I've seen crits deal less damage than normal hits is levels 1-4 after that bonus damage at x2 is usually as much as the weapon would deal on a normal hit.


He's got a point, Anfalas - you're not adding the extra bonuses multiple times, like you should be. Thanks for pointing this out - I totally missed it myself.

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