And their name seems more appropriate for an Indian restaurant than for a gaming shop...
Next question: What is your favorite local gaming/hobby store in Houston? Thanks Much!!!I don't have a favorite yet, but I have one I dislike: Nan's. They've got a large selection of games and books and all, but I'm invariable either treated badly when I go there, or ignored. I once waited 10 minutes to get help, and other times the people in the store didn't know where the mini painting supplies were, despite the gigantic selection of metal minis they offer! Turns out they were out of stock on mini glue as well.
I've seen debates on these boards about Paizo's online sales and how it hurts local gaming stores - I purchase goods from both piazo and local gaming stores, but I have to say that Nan's has made their own bed as far as I'm concerned, and I have no interest in paying extra at their store for bad service. I am willing to pay a little extra at Asgard games because they treat the gaming community well there - I'm buying my second copy of the core rules from them for this very reason.
We () visted a few local stores (I've only lived here a year, and I wasn't that familiar with some stores at the time. My experience with Nan's is the same, except the first time I drove up there they were closed during regular business hours at 5 pm with no sign or explanation, and I had called an hour earlier, and they said they'd be open! Needless to say I was mad at driving across town in traffic for nothing. When I got into Nan's finally, to discuss this possibility of networking before Haven, with the way I was treated I just left. I've heard several complaints in our group about just that. I don't look for any special treatment, but come on, don't flake on your customers! YMMV, but I'm not going back there.
I usually order directly from the local gaming stores for non-pdfs with only one exception, chessex. I get custom stuff made there and I have to order it that way because it really sucks to pay for custom dice and have it arrive wrong (we are developing a board game at Wicked K Games).
I haven't had a chance to check out Asgard Games yet, but the organization is undergoing a minor revamp. We're expanding our participation to the houston metro area. With Haven Games there was a deal for donation members ($5.00 donation to NHDnD/PE) and in exchange the member got 10% off gaming purchases there. The trade off is that we held our events and games at that store (meeting someone from the internet in a public place is more comfortablefor most people). Unfortunately, even with the infusing of business, their location was a bit too far out of the way into Tomball for some people.
Instead of limiting this to one store we're going to try now to have a network of stores, treated equally, to run our games with in 2010. I know some stores may balk at the thought of being part of a network with other stores they compete with, but as a whole businesses in the network will get more foot traffic. I'm really for pathfinder products, and I'm looking forward to playing games in some other shops around.
So far the list of stores I'm going to visit then are:
Asgard, Fat Ogre Games (never been/no feedback yet though), Midnight Comics, Third Planet, and this new place opening in the Woodlands
I really appreciate the feedback, thank you!
I expect to be there tonight. Looking forward to it.
What about next week, though? December the 21st? I'm totally down for that, also.
Tentative Schedule for KG's Monday Game:
Monday, 1/4/10: Possibly no game; will confirm when work schedule coalesces.
I'll be out of town this night. And possibly later in January, as well. I'll have to get back with you about that week.
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No matter how many times I look at it, I'm not going to ever take fast movement over another sutra.
Given the monks really bad early armor class issues, iron skin is pretty much required. I have a 19 dex - and my AC is 16. And it's not going to get higher without magic.
Who would take +10' movement vs. flurry? vs. Evasion? vs. Maneuver Training? I even have a hard time taking +10' movement vs. uncanny dodge.
I see some really big balance issues between sutras as well.
I would never ever take clever positioning. Compared to things like evasion it doesn't measure up. It's poor man's improved forcing maneuvers - it's about 1/3 of that feat, as you don't get the +2 bonus and you don't get the other two maneuvers, but you do get to move him, not just move past him.
I'm filling out a level sheet for trog, trying to get a better handle on why I'm unhappy with monk changes. I want to take purity of body, as I figure Trog's eaten so much garbage to survive that she'd pretty much ahve to have that - it would make sense first level. But I would have to be absolutely retarded to take that over flurry.
Edit: Rather than just complain, I should offer suggestions, huh?
I would make flurry just a class ability. It's...too iconic to the class. If everyone's going to take a certain ability over other "equal" choices, there's a problem with the design. If the movement is really a problem, cut the bonuses in 1/2 - every time she'd normally get a +10', make it a +5', like fleet. Or cut it in 1/3 - space it out more, so monks get only +20' over their career instead of +60 - that means even with haste or ki powers active, it's a +50' maximum speed.
The situational usefulness of some illuminations is so rare that they need to be more powerful or need to apply to more situations. Feign Death is cool - it's like a meditative coma or something. But it doesn't do anything but bluff that you're dead. It's so situational it's pretty much a wasted ability. If it also let you heal as if you'd rested for a night for each hour you were in that state, though - then it'd be somewhat useful.
Or purity of body and blood might be combined, and you gain more of the immunities as you level. PUrity of Body might start out with immune to sickened and alcohol. Then immune to diseases and nausea at about level 4. Then to poisons at 8, then to magical diseases at 12 or something.
Jess,
Great suggestions! Keep 'em coming, please!
Even the complaints are constructive, and I myself have "iron skin," so keep them coming as well!
To reply so far:
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Overall, then, I'm looking at a bit of restructuring so that sutras (1/2 levels) provide immunities and such, bonus feats provide combat abilities/manuevers, and ki powers (spells) provide things that duplicate spells (temporary personal buffs and/or odd-use things like water breathing and feign death). Thoughts?
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Jess,
Great suggestions! Keep 'em coming, please!
Even the complaints are constructive, and I myself have "iron skin," so keep them coming as well!
Good. I've been unhappy with some of the monk changes, but hadn't stopped and really analyzed it - I didn't want to complain "because I don't like it", because that's not helpful at all, and it's lazy on my part. But when I had a better handle on what bothered me, I had something to say worth saying.
The armor issues are only at very low level - 1-4ish. After that the monk starts to catch up. It's a temporary problem, but very deadly while it's there. I want to take iron skin at 3rd to give her some AC - but by 10th level that'll be unnecessary.
I mean, I pummped everything I could into dex because it gives me reflex, full AC and attack with weapon finesse. with this character pumping wisdom would make the low levels unsurvivable. I"m not sure that's what you want for the monk, though.
I see no reason to put points into wisdom, honestly. With my abilities being self buffs, I just have to avoid wisdom DC based attacks and I lose nothing. Dex, full speed ahead!
ONe thought I had for low level single class monk survivability: you get your full wisdom bonus to AC if you don't have armor proficiencies - you've never depended on armor as a crutch, so you get the full bonus. If you have any armor proficiencies you've trained in armor use - and thus you only get +1 wis mod / monk level, as you're "unlearning" your dependence on armor.
Wizards and sorcerors are the only other class without armor proficiencies. And if you want to multiclass into monk for +wis mod to AC as a full spellcaster...eh, who cares?
As for movement - yeah. Make it so you can only take itonce, and have it add +5' when you take it, plus +5' for every 6 monk levels. That's +10 at 6, +15 at 12, and +20 at 18. With haste or ki powers that's a max of +80' at 18th level - shouldn't be too broken.
Otherwise make the movement only count while taking a move action - it can't be used to run punching around the battlefield - you're either concentrating on fighting or moving, but not both.
1. One thought I had for low level single class monk survivability: you get your full wisdom bonus to AC if you don't have armor proficiencies - you've never depended on armor as a crutch, so you get the full bonus. If you have any armor proficiencies you've trained in armor use - and thus you only get +1 wis mod / monk level, as you're "unlearning" your dependence on armor.
Wizards and sorcerors are the only other class without armor proficiencies. And if you want to multiclass into monk for +wis mod to AC as a full spellcaster...eh, who cares?
2. As for movement - yeah. Make it so you can only take itonce, and have it add +5' when you take it, plus +5' for every 6 monk levels. That's +10 at 6, +15 at 12, and +20 at 18. With haste or ki powers that's a max of +80' at 18th level - shouldn't be too broken.
1. OK, I'm convinced. That will re-value Wisdom and still prevent 1-level dipping by other martials just for the Wis bonus to AC. Consider that a "go."
2. Sounds like we have a consensus on movement, too. Sweet!
I'll make those changes, swap out some sutras into feats and/or ki powers, and email another draft out pronto. Hopefully we're moving towards a monk class that is viable, that has a definite role (stylish combat and massive immunities), and that's fun to play.
Thanks for the playtesting, and for the feedback!!! I'm not Jason -- no houserules are set in stone if they're not enjoyable, or if they don't work as expected. Playtesting lets me see what happens at the table, but more importantly, feedback lets me see what people actually think/feel about the changes, which is just as valuable, if not more so.
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1. OK, I'm convinced. That will re-value Wisdom and still prevent 1-level dipping by other martials just for the Wis bonus to AC. Consider that a "go."
I wanted something that helped only at low levels, that didn't break multiclassing, and that had some actual fluff to it that made sense, as opposed to the very metagamey "If you multiclass out of monk, you get only your wis mod as a bonus to AC up to you level to prevent one level martial class monk dipping"
I wanted something that helped only at low levels, that didn't break multiclassing, and that had some actual fluff to it that made sense, as opposed to the very metagamey "If you multiclass out of monk, you get only your wis mod as a bonus to AC up to you level to prevent one level martial class monk dipping"
I think you hit that right on. And if flurry becomes a bonus feat or two, I can also get rid of the "temporary sutra" caveat about multiclassing, which I hated even while I was writing it. Sweet!
I see no reason to put points into wisdom, honestly. With my abilities being self buffs, I just have to avoid wisdom DC based attacks and I lose nothing. Dex, full speed ahead!
If the Wis-based insight bonus to AC applied while you're flat-footed (unlike the Dex mod), that would potentially save you having to select Uncanny Dodge as a sutra. And your ki powers require Wis 10 + level, and you need those ki slots to power your unarmed strike enhancements. So, yeah, I can see reasons for pumping Wis over Dex, even despite Weapon Finesse.
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I see no reason to put points into wisdom, honestly. With my abilities being self buffs, I just have to avoid wisdom DC based attacks and I lose nothing. Dex, full speed ahead!If the Wis-based insight bonus to AC applied while you're flat-footed (unlike the Dex mod), that would potentially save you having to select Uncanny Dodge as a sutra. And your ki powers require Wis 10 + level, and you need those ki slots to power your unarmed strike enhancements. So, yeah, I can see reasons for pumping Wis over Dex, even despite Weapon Finesse.
I was talking about 1st level with the old rules.
putting my 17 in wisdom and then the +2 bonus too would have left me with an armor class of 14 at best. O.o
Monk class revised! Canny defense and fast movement have been modified as discussed. Feign death is a 2nd level spell, "sleep of the dead," from Relics and Rituals. The combat abilities that were formerly in among the sutras are now feats, and have been added to the list of bonus feats.
I think this version is quite a bit superior to the last iteration, and infinitely better than the haphazard collection of junk that is the 3.0/3.5/PF monk.
the feat multiattack states that a character with attack bonuses +11/+6/+1 would have attack bonuses +11/+9/+4 with the feat.
Wouldn't it be +11/+8/+5?
Monsters with +11/+6/+6 instead get +11/+9/+9 with the Multiattack feat -- it reduces the penalty by 3, from -5 to -2.
So characters who are normally +11/+6/+1 instead get +11/+9/+4 -- reducing the penalty by 3, from -5/-10 to -2/-7.If the main text doesn't match the example, I'll have to edit it.
Hey Kirth, I often like your suggested changes to rules on the boards quite alot. Your page mentions you've done alot of extensive changes to the classes, etc.
Have you got them up somewhere I could have a look?
Regards.
-VP
Hey Kirth, I often like your suggested changes to rules on the boards quite alot. Your page mentions you've done alot of extensive changes to the classes, etc.
Have you got them up somewhere I could have a look?
Regards.
-VP
Due to the inclusion of a lot of 3.5 stuff as options, I haven't personally posted anything up publically -- don't want to imply any copyright infringement/challenges. I don't mind emailing stuff, however -- if you let me know your addy, I'll fire it over to you this evening when I get home.
I need to warn you, those, that I design houserules with three design goals in mind, at least one of which often makes people very angry:
1. Warriors should have lots of options and immunities at higher levels, and wizards should actively recruit bodyguards if they want to avoid being sword fodder.
2. All classes should really kick ass, even without lots of equipment, so you're looking at classes that play better if WBL is a bit lower.
3. Level progression should be slow, so I generally provide a number of new abilities each level, to stave off boredom.
The last two basically mean that if you use the houserule options but give full items and normal xp progression, your campaign probably won't be much fun. I'll occasionally break those guidelines, but I try and compensate in another area to make up for it.
P.S. Physics? You're almost a fellow scientist! Awesome.
That's awesome, I like looking at changing base assumptions in broad ways like that too. I'm quite interested now, it sounds like it has alot of old school charm about it, and I'm quite pro-#1.
black.leonhart@gmail.com
Looking forward to seeing it. Cheers!
P.S. Almost, the more scientists on Paizo the better!
Lol, Hey Kirth, Vagrant-Poet's in my PbP campaign testing out my own revisions to the game. Should be interesting to see what he thinks of your approach.
Cool! I hope he can give us both some feedback.
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That's awesome, I like looking at changing base assumptions in broad ways like that too. I'm quite interested now, it sounds like it has alot of old school charm about it...
As the resident arbiter of what constitutes "old school charm" (hehehehe), I have to say Kirth's stuff has it in oodles. I wouldn't be in his Monday game if it didn't take be back to the Golden Age :)
Looking forward to seeing it. Cheers!
Email sent. It's about 2.3 megs worth of documents, so let me know if it doesn't arrive intact and I can send it in pieces.
I just woke up and got it.
EDIT: Read through the houserules itself bit. Pretty impressed with some of it, checking, parrying (which always should have been available) and counterspelling are things I'm a big fan of.
Off to class, will respond in more detail later if I get the chance. Today is my game night.
So how many Houston gaming groups is this one thread supporting? ;p
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This thread supports whatever :)
I guess this has kind of become a posting place for the Monday gamers, the Sunday gamers in Silverhair's group (if they ever care to post here) and folks interested in Kirth's houserule type stuff, but as far as I'm concerned, as the thread originator, use it for whatever you need to :)
Also, I do want this to become by and far the longest of the "gamer connection" threads...
Well as it happens I'm actually in Houston as well.. the northwest'ish side. I haven't seen any other threads bout Houston spawn up so figured I'd ask here what was going on.. preferably without having to read 850 some odd posts.
I do try to read whole threads.. but.. dang!
-S
Everything I have to say is very important.
VERY.
Everything I have to say is very important.
That's true! And anything Trog has to say about the monk revision is equally important...
Speaking of Trog, if she became Fiachra's familiar, it would be amusing if she served as his spellbook (like the witch class), and could withhold spells if she was in a bad mood or otherwise angry with him. Just a whimsical thought that popped into my head...
P.S. Does anyone have any of those Binder or Incarnum books from 3.5? Is there anything in them that looks like good options for our houserule classes?
The Tome of Magic Binder class?
The Tome of Magic Binder class?
Yeah, I don't know anything about it. Wasn't there another class in there, too? And what in blue blazes is an arcanum? People are always talking about Tome of Battle or Spell Compendium or Complete Whatever, but I never seem to hear about that other stuff. Is that because it sucks? Or are there potential gems there, waiting to be mined?
There's alot of good stuff you might want to consider in both of them, but the subsystems (binding and Incarnum) are both rather... different to say the least. I'm not sure how well I could describe them without you reading the material.
Ah. The only reason I never used Bo9S in 3.5 was because I didn't have the motivation to sit down and actually figure out how maneuver refreshing worked. :)
Tome of Magic had the Binder, the Shadowmage and the.. umm.
hrm. umm.. wait.. i know this.
oh yeah, the True namer.
-S
Incarnum is an ability to shape a limited amount of "essentia" basically soul energy, into unique 'soul melds' to your 'chakra points'(which translate into being your magic item slots) These soul melds function as magic items and consume those magic item slots, and grant a number of abilities depending on the soulmeld in question.
Magic items with another name, then? Guess I'll skip it, then. Thanks!
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There's alot of good stuff you might want to consider in both of them, but the subsystems (binding and Incarnum) are both rather... different to say the least. I'm not sure how well I could describe them without you reading the material.Ah. The only reason I never used Bo9S in 3.5 was because I didn't have the motivation to sit down and actually figure out how maneuver refreshing worked. :)
Lol. I'll gladly explain it. Generally, it involves cards. I liked the flavors the powers gave non magical characters. The system was...unweildly.
Lol. I'll gladly explain it. Generally, it involves cards. I liked the flavors the powers gave non magical characters. The system was...unweildly.
Is that Bo9S you're talking about? Or Incarnum?
BO9S. never saw the reason to deal with incarnum. :)
Ah, OK. Sorry; I was kidding a bit about Bo9S -- I'm not actually always as dumb as I pretend to be! Mostly I never used it because I started looking at it after I gave up on 3.5 edition. But you've probably noticed that I've "snuck in" a lot of the maneuvers as feats and talents in the homebrew rules! :)
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Yup! I noticed!
The systems varied between classes and in general you could tell it was as much a playtest as an actual design - I like paizo's preference for open playtest isntead of selling something only halfway thought through as a finished product in order to test for a later product.
But I liked a lot of what the book offered. MOstly, the ability to make viable meleers without having to go gish for high level relevence.
But I liked a lot of what the book offered. MOstly, the ability to make viable meleers without having to go gish for high level relevence.
I can't WAIT 'til we get to higher levels and see what the melee characters can really do now!
Your going to have to learn to wait since you insist on playing at such a slow leveling pace :P
A slow leveling pace, and switching off between two different parties, both starting at 1st level... (Grumble, grumble). But the second party would have all died last session, speeding things along, except the guy who normally yells "Glaive to the face!" decided to lower his weapons this time... :(
(Raspberry to the GM) :p
(Raspberry to the GM) :p
I keep forgetting your current half-orc is like a hundred times smarter than your usual half-orcs.
Sneaky players.... ;P
The PC may be but the player still isn't very good at roleplaying.