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Liberty's Edge

Kirth Gersen wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
I already have an Elvish wizard ready to roll. He's first level, stats/feats upon request.
Awesome! If you can give me a brief summary (including birthplace/bakcground, if you've made that up), I'll fit him in for Monday.

Homebrew?

Elvish, Hylore most likely, bookworm, student of the Academy, bored with books, wants to add some practical application to his studies.

Comes from a minor noble family, second son (rare enough in Elvish society, I suppose), frozen out of any inheritance. He is physically weak from a rare muscle disease from his youth (6 STR, again, second son, no sense in wasting precious gold on a healer), bitter and cynical about his life situation and unaccustomed to dealing with people socially (8 CHA), but quite nimble and VERY intelligent (17 DEX, 19 INT).

My assumptions on the way a second son would be though of by his family comes from my take on the Pharisee coldness exhibited in THaTL. If I am mistaken as to the personality of the Hylore noble born elves, let me know.

Liberty's Edge

houstonderek wrote:
Kirth Gersen wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
I already have an Elvish wizard ready to roll. He's first level, stats/feats upon request.
Awesome! If you can give me a brief summary (including birthplace/bakcground, if you've made that up), I'll fit him in for Monday.

Homebrew?

Elvish, Hylore most likely, bookworm, student of the Academy, bored with books, wants to add some practical application to his studies.

Comes from a minor noble family, second son (rare enough in Elvish society, I suppose), frozen out of any inheritance. He is physically weak from a rare muscle disease from his youth (6 STR, again, second son, no sense in wasting precious gold on a healer), bitter and cynical about his life situation and unaccustomed to dealing with people socially (8 CHA), but quite nimble and VERY intelligent (17 DEX, 19 INT).

My assumptions on the way a second son would be though of by his family comes from my take on the Pharisee coldness exhibited in THaTL. If I am mistaken as to the personality of the Hylore noble born elves, let me know.

Forcing a phantom post...


houstonderek wrote:
My assumptions on the way a second son would be though of by his family comes from my take on the Pharisee coldness exhibited in THaTL. If I am mistaken as to the personality of the Hylore noble born elves, let me know.

The nobles out in Hirschwald (the more traditional elven tree-city) would be "nicer," but the hardcore elven nobles nearer the city of Hylore would be much as you describe -- except even more so: they choose their successors, rather than simply sire them, and can feel free to leave their entire estate to the butler (for example) if they decide both sons (and/or daughters equally) are incompetent!

Noble: "My health begins to fail; soon I'll be gone. I have chosen a scion."
Eldest Son (boldly): "I will strive to be worthy, father!"
Noble: "You are a reckless idiot."
Younger Son (cautiously): "Then am I to be the next lord?"
Noble: "You're much too innocent."
Daughter (coquettishly): "Haven't I always pleased you, father?"
Noble: "Excessively so, which makes you too weak to rule!"
All: "Who, then is scion?"
Noble: "Bill the halfling. He's done a great job with the horses, and most people aren't much smarter than livestock."


Kirth Gersen wrote:
Andostre wrote:
The more I think about it, even if nothing changes, multi-classing into Archivist coould be pretty cool.
Only if I can think of a nifty way for the spellcasting to stack; otherwise, at cleric 4/archivist 4, for example, you're casting 2nd level spells (max) instead of 4th level spells. And that would suck.

I agree, but I didn't make myself clear. I'm really only thinking of taking the first level in Archivist. That alone would get Jazeed ("Jafar?" Typical Avionan ignorance!) light armor, 3 uses/day of the Dark Knowledge ability, and the Scribe Scroll feat. It will cost Jazeed one level of spell progression, but I wouldn't even want to multiclass too far in to that class, anyway, because the Archivist's spell stats are WIS and INT, and Jazeed's INT is....

Ouch. Jazeed's INT is 8. I wouldn't even be able to cast the 0th and 1st level spells I would get from multiclassing one level into Archivist! Or even any of the 0th or 1st level non-cleric spells that he might encounter and want to copy into his prayerbook. Still might be worth it, though. Hmm....

Jess Door wrote:

I think the cleric is clearly ahead in this exchange. Domain abilities and spells alone are quite a big loss - to add the lost of Channel Energy (which is much more valuable, imo, than Turn Undead unless you're using DMM cheese) adds insult to injury.

I think sacrificing medium armor for the skill points, as with cloistered cleric, and giving up domains for Dread Knowledge is probably a pretty even trade - maybe still slightly in favor of the cleric.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I might just stay cleric even if I don't multiclass. I really like my domain abilities, and I think I could have played Jazeed smarter, last night (despite his 8 INT).

What is 'DMM?'


What if I made Dark Knowledge into a feat/feat chain? Then an archivist could be a wizard or a cleric. Or a bard, for that matter.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
What if I made Dark Knowledge into a feat/feat chain? Then an archivist could be a wizard or a cleric. Or a bard, for that matter.

Please do Kirth, I want to steal it lol.

Liberty's Edge

Cool.

It isn't that Fiachra (Fiachra Felamid) is incompetent (far from it, actually), it's that his brother is PERFECT; charming, cut throat, amazing with the rapier as well as the politics of Hylore's court. Fiachra, of course, HATES his brother (Gwalchmai? Sounds properly arrogant in Welsh, I suppose, and apt, "Gwalch" means "hawk" (Welsh), "Fiach" means "raven" (Gaelic), which bird has the better reputation?), but loathes his parents even more for almost allowing him to die. Sometimes, he thinks the only reason he survived his childhood disease (some odd Elvish form of polio, perhaps) is out of spite.

I think I'm going to have fun with this one.

Does universalist work as per the PfRPG?


houstonderek wrote:
Does universalist work as per the PfRPG?

Pretty much, with the exception of some of the bonded item/familair statistics (and a third option), and the item crafting feats.

P.S. Love the character. I'll get right to work on how, 6 days from now, he'll find himself in a small cave somewhere outside of Kaisersburg...


Kirth, could he possibly be trapped on another level?


silverhair2008 wrote:
Kirth, could he possibly be trapped on another level?

I like that. A lot.

Liberty's Edge

Kirth Gersen wrote:
silverhair2008 wrote:
Kirth, could he possibly be trapped on another level?
I like that. A lot.

Should I leave a spell slot or two "expended" in this case? To simulate being captured or lost?


That's a good idea, HD. Perhaps you were with the party that we found the remains of so far.


silverhair2008 wrote:
Perhaps you were with the party that we found the remains of so far.

That won't work, since they're bones now, unless he brought a wagon train full of food with him... Derek, I'll leave it to you to fit into your backstory why you're imprisoned in a "dungeon" -- I'm sure you can come up with something suitably evocative.

Liberty's Edge

Can you e-mail or spoiler some information about the area, any possibly interesting magical trinkets or maybe a piece of apocrypha that would pique Fiachra's interest? He's arrogant enough to think his wit would allow him to survive any obstacles that may come across his path.

Knowledge, Lore: 1d20+8=27


Derek -- email sent!

Spoiler:
Fiachra took some money and stole or "borrowed" or was given two potions (or scrolls) (invisibility and levitation). He's after a very valuable "trinket" indeed. The money got him from Aviona to Kaisersburg, on the shore of the Lake of Fallen Stars. There, the first potion got him past some hungry wolves; the second up to a magical elevator downward. Now, out of potions, he's temporarily at an impasse -- not wanting to go past a dangerous-looking corridor of statues, but unable to get back to the surface.


Howdy folks! It's a slow day here at work, so I thought I would ask some or all of you (even those who don't play with us but still follow this thread) for some help with one of my play-by-post characters, whom I'm very fond of.

He's a level 2/2 Dwarf Barbarian/Druid, and he is SUPER DUPER fun to roleplay, and he does very well in combat and many skill/creative spell use encounters, but I created him before I really had a good handle on the 3.5 rules. After a while of running this character, I started planning his future, and only then did I realize that balancing his Barbarian and Druid classes was going to gimp him as he levelled up.

Meet Emus Graymullet:

Emus Graymullet
Neutral Dwarf Barbarian (2)/Druid (2)

STR: 14 (+2)
DEX: 14 (+2)
CON: 16 (+3)
INT: 8 (-1)
WIS: 14 (+2)
CHA: 8 (-1)

HP: 39/39
AC: 17 (12 touch, 17 flat-footed)
(Hide Armor, Masterwork Heavy Shield)

Base Attack: +3
Dwarven waraxe (+1): +6 melee (1d10+3, x3)

Saving Throws: Fortitude +9, Reflex +2, Will +5

Feats: Power Attack, Cleave

Skills:
Appraise: -1 (0-1) (+2 if related to stone or metal)
Craft: Alchemy 4 (3-1+2)
Handle Animal: 0 (1-1) (+4 if involving Animal Companion)
Heal: 2 (0+2)
Jump: 5 (3+2)
Knowledge: Architecture 1 (0-1+2)
Knowledge: Engineering 1 (0-1+2)
Knowledge: Nature 5 (2-1+2+2)
Listen: 5 (3+2)
Profession: Engineer 1 (0-1+2)
Search: -1 (0-1) (+2 concerning unusual stonework)
Spot: 2 (0+2)
Survival: 10 (6+2+2)
Swim: 4 (2+2)

All of the normal Dwarf/Barbarian/Druid 3.5 rules apply.

He's got a Coonhound (Dog, Riding) named Skeeter as his animal companion, and I enjoy roleplaying him because he tries to balance the rage of his Barbarian training vs. the serenity of nature, and his Dwarven duty vs. his desire to protect the land. Plus, I get to have him say things like "I reckon so" and "It's colder than a witches titties in here!"

So, I guess I might be looking for some thematically-approporiate gish-like prestige class that doesn't involve heavy armor or arcane spells? Failing that, it looks like I'll have to cut my losses and concentrate on either his combat or druidic abilities. If I go the latter route, Bear Warrior from Complete Warrior, looks very thematically appropriate for a Druid that rages.

Sovereign Court

Nature's Warrior

Prerequisites:
Neutral Alignment, Base Attack Bonus 4, Knowledge (nature) 8 rnaks, Knowledge (the planes) 2 ranks, Survival 8 ranks, Track feat, Wild shape ability.

Basics
d10 hit dice. 2 skill points, full base attack bonus, high fort save, special abilities added on to shapeshifted forms:

  • Natural Armor increase +1 / level (max +5)
  • Fire element form gains fire shield
  • +3 Damage on natural Weapons
  • Gain DR 3/-
  • +1 attacks with natural weapons, treat as magic to overcome dr
  • gain concealment in air elemental form
  • +4 on grapple checks whilein a form that has improved grab
  • transform into a stream of water to move (only move) without getting attacked 3 times / day
  • Fast Healing 1
  • Flying forms and air elementals forms gain +30 feet to movement
2 levels advance spellcasting, levels of Nature's Warrior stack with Druid levels for wild shaping ability. Class is 5 levels long.

Warshaper

Prerequisites:
Base attack bonus 4, must be able to shape change (wild shape qualifies)

Basics
d8 hit dice, 2 skill points, medium BaB progression, high fort save. Gain:

  • Immunities to stun
  • Immunities to critical hits (which by extension makes you immune to sneak attack)
  • Reshape normal form to add a new weapon to the form - or increase the effective weapon size and damage of existing natural weapon. Weapons created or changed by this ability can morph as often as every round.
  • +4 Strength, +4 Constitution
  • Reshape normal form to get longer reach. At 5' to reach of creature its in the form of. Enemies are not aware of this longer reach until it is utilized.
  • Fast Healing 2, can heal self 10 pts with a full round action and a concentration check.
  • Gain multimorph - the ability to change your form while wild shaped without using up your wild shape ability - as long as you don't return to your natural form.
This is also a 5 level class.

A possibility:

Druid 2 / Barbarian 2 (current build)

Add at least three more levels of Druid to get Wild shape. You would only have 1 wild shape / day, for a total of 5 hours. Levels 5,6,7 all increase your number of wild shapes, while level 8 gives you large shapes, which is very nice.

If you have the skills, take nature's warrior - you'll continue to slowly improve your casting and your attack bonus will be higher, you'll increase your wild shaping as well.

Take 5 levels of Warshaper - the increased strength and con are very nice, and increase hit points, attacks, and rage duration. This gives you time to get the skills for Nature's Warrior

Level 4
+3 BaB, 2d12 + 2d8 HD, 1st level spells, rage 1/day, fast movement, uncanny dodge

Level 7: Druid 5/Barbarian 2
+5 BaB, 2d12 + 5d8 HD, 3rd level spells, rage 1/day, fast movement, uncanny dodge, wild shape 1/day, 5 hrs.

Level 10: Druid 8/Barbarian 2
+8 BaB, 2d12 + 8d8 HD, 4th level spells, rage 1/day, fast movement, uncanny dodge, wild shape 3/day, 8 hrs apiece, large

Level 15: Nature's Warrior 5/Druid 8/Barbarian 2
+13 BaB, 2d12 +5d10 + 8d8 HD, 6th level spells, rage 1/day, fast movement, uncanny dodge, wild shape 4/day for 13hs each,tiny and pland shapes, 3 nature's warrior abilities

Level 20: Warshaper 5 / Nature's Warrior 5 / Druid 8 / Barbarian 2
+16 BaB, 2d12 + 5d10 + 13d8 HD, 6th level spells, rage 1/day, fast movement, uncanny dodge, wild shape 4/day, 2 nature's warrior abilities, +4 str, +4 con, fast healing, reach, multimorph, immune to crits, stun and sneak attack

if you take warshaper sooner, you lose some BaB early and spellcasitng / wild shape progression, gain strength, con fast healing for survivability. If you take some barbarian instead of druid, you'll get fewer wild shap abilities and less spellcasting, but you'll get an extra rage each day.

with lower casting ability, I'd concentrate on natural spell feat (duh! shifter! :D) and self buffing spells in animal form.

Remember you cannot cast while raging.


Jess Door wrote:

Nature's Warrior

Remember you cannot cast while raging.

That's the one I was trying to think of! Thanks.

P.S. Isn't there a Rage Casting feat somewhere? I know there's a Rage Mage PrC, but I seem to recall a feat as well...
Aha! Check Dragon magazine, issue 310.

Sovereign Court

Kirth Gersen wrote:
Jess Door wrote:

Nature's Warrior

Remember you cannot cast while raging.

That's the one I was trying to think of! Thanks.

P.S. Isn't there a Rage Casting feat somewhere? I know there's a Rage Mage PrC, but I seem to recall a feat as well...
Aha! Check Dragon magazine, issue 310.

Does not has. :(

I had a changeling fighter that I was going to take into warshaper. mmm.....spiked chain tripper with rogue, fighter and warshaper levels. Extended reach, immunity to crits and sneak attacks, fast healing, combat reflexes, robilar's gambit....mmmm...cheesy.

I did not feel guilty. I was the only non-caster, and we were playing through Age of Worms.


Jess Door wrote:
and we were playing through Age of Worms.

That's all you had to say. So speaks the Slayer of Parties.

Sovereign Court

Kirth Gersen wrote:
Jess Door wrote:
and we were playing through Age of Worms.
That's all you had to say. So speaks the Slayer of Parties.

Immune to crits and sneak attacks is nice. And you get that the first level of that prestige class.

Jeff, is this 3.5 or Pathfinder? I assumed 3.5 in my post...

also, any special rules from the DM on prestige classes? For example, could you take a level of warshaper then a level of nature's warrior then another level of warshaper and then a level of barbarian? Or does he want you to finish a prestige class befor eyou start another?

You will also want to clarify exactly what wild shaping rules the DM's using. They've....morphed...over time. I believe the d20srd.org site is updated with the latest on it...


Heh. I think my GM for this campaign would hate the Warshaper. We don't play with onine battle mats (or even initiative) to be able to make things flow faster, so he would hate it if I had a character that suddenly introduced that much of the reach mechanic into every battle.

Nature's Warrior is one I forgot about, though. I'm trying to remember why I ruled him out. I think that I was worried about with the class (and this applies to the Warshaper, too), is the Wild Shape prerequisite. As you say, that still necessitates three more levels in Druid, and if I get too far ahead in either my Druid or Barbarian class, then I start taking a 20% hit on xp gains. I also realize how silly it is that it's so hard for me to accept taking that 20% penalty now to avoid being so gimpy later. Part of the reason for this is that, as much as I love this campaign, it moves at a snail's pace. We've been playing since February of 2006, and Emus is still only level 4. I want results now! :)

I think subconsciously, I was willing to give up on Wild Shape if I could still advance the attack bonus and spell progression at a steady pace.


Jess Door wrote:
Jeff, is this 3.5 or Pathfinder? I assumed 3.5 in my post...

You assumed correctly. We're using 3.5. If sometime before the year 2020 we reach level 10, the planned campaign should be wrapping up, and then we'll decide if we want to continue those characters, and whether to switch to 4E or PF.

Quote:
also, any special rules from the DM on prestige classes? For example, could you take a level of warshaper then a level of nature's warrior then another level of warshaper and then a level of barbarian? Or does he want you to finish a prestige class befor eyou start another?

There aren't many house rules for this campaign, and I checked our campaign wiki page about house rules to confirm. The only prestige class house rule swaps out a skill prerequisite for an unrelated prestige class.

Quote:
You will also want to clarify exactly what wild shaping rules the DM's using. They've....morphed...over time. I believe the d20srd.org site is updated with the latest on it...

Emus will be the first of our characters to have to worry about any sort of polymorphing. If anyone in our campaign has given those rules much thought, they haven't shared what they were thinking. We usually discuss rules issues as a group and decide on a rule that makes sense for the campaign in terms of lore, playability, and level of cheese.

Sovereign Court

Andostre wrote:

Heh. I think my GM for this campaign would hate the Warshaper. We don't play with onine battle mats (or even initiative) to be able to make things flow faster, so he would hate it if I had a character that suddenly introduced that much of the reach mechanic into every battle.

Nature's Warrior is one I forgot about, though. I'm trying to remember why I ruled him out. I think that I was worried about with the class (and this applies to the Warshaper, too), is the Wild Shape prerequisite. As you say, that still necessitates three more levels in Druid, and if I get too far ahead in either my Druid or Barbarian class, then I start taking a 20% hit on xp gains. I also realize how silly it is that it's so hard for me to accept taking that 20% penalty now to avoid being so gimpy later. Part of the reason for this is that, as much as I love this campaign, it moves at a snail's pace. We've been playing since February of 2006, and Emus is still only level 4. I want results now! :)

I think subconsciously, I was willing to give up on Wild Shape if I could still advance the attack bonus and spell progression at a steady pace.

There's nothing I can think of that gives you what you're looking for, then. The only route that's covered in prcs that's really covered is wild shaping combining with attack bonuses.

You might want to talke to the DM about the xp thing for multiclassing without favored classes. Most DMs over time would forego it. You could keep advancing half and and half, and at ninth level you could enter nature's warrior.

I'll look for cleric based martial prcs and see if they'll work out for you too...there might be something.


Thanks! I don't want you to think that I'm asking for help, but rejecting all the help I get, however. You've got me seriously reconsidering Nature's Warrior.

Liberty's Edge

Boo!

Happy Halloween my gaming group (and other onlookers)!

Sovereign Court

houstonderek wrote:

Boo!

Happy Halloween my gaming group (and other onlookers)!

ah~! Don't startle me!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I was very brave. I only cried a little bit when Derek scared me.


I was so scared I added another six ogre zombie eunuchs to room 23 for Monday... er, I mean, I wasn't scared, either.

Liberty's Edge

Erik, call me if I need to pick anything up. I'll be away from the computer from the time of this post to until I get home from the game.


<grunts as she drags Virak's body back to the inn>

If I have to disarm his stupid scimitar from someone one more time, I swear, I'm going to keep it!


Oh, my goodness gracious!

Noble companions, why did you let my poor self sleep for two days?! Our terrible employer will employ many means with which to fatally discomfort us when we are not there when he is ready for us to be there!


Looks like I need some more training in how to use this stupid blade!


silverhair2008 wrote:
Looks like I need some more training in how to use this stupid blade!

"When bullies want to fight Trog, Trog knows it's bad to fight. Trog hits when necessary....then gets away. And Trog never starts fights with mean giant pig-faced Kullen!"


Being as I am new to this area. I will listen to your advice my little friend.


Don't know why those fools ever hired you worthless punks! Mess with me again and you'll all get the ax. Until then, I have more important things to worry about.


In the words of my immortal hero, "I'll be back".


You and what army? That foreign-born charlatan and his "familiar"? Ha!
Sissy human wanna-be's like you give the whole Orcish race a bad name!


Meh. Your tainted blood and foul breath are an offense to all that is civil.

And leave the little one alone. I'm toying with the idea of taking her on as MY familiar.


As promised, Archivist feats:

DARK KNOWLEDGE
Prerequisites: Spellcaster level 1, Knowledge (the planes) 1 rank.
Benefit: You have an expansive knowledge of aberrations, elementals, outsiders, and undead. When aware of creatures of one of these types within 60 ft., you can attempt a Knowledge (the planes) check as a move action. If successful, you and your allies (assuming you can communicate with them) receive an insight bonus on attack rolls against them for 1 minute. The magnitude of the bonus depends on the results of the check:

Results (DC) / Insight Bonus to Attacks
15 / +1
25 / +2
35 / +3

You can use this ability up to once per day, plus an additional time per day per 2 ranks in Knowledge (the planes) you possess beyond the first (i.e., 2/day at 3 ranks, 3/day at 5 ranks, etc.). One use of dark knowledge can affect all creatures of one specific race.

DARK KNOWLEDGE, FOE
Prerequisites: Spellcaster level 8, Knowledge (the planes) 8 ranks, Dark Knowledge.
Benefit: When using the Dark Knowledge ability, you can direct allies to attack vital spots of the affected creatures. On a successful Knowledge (the planes) check, you grant them a bonus to weapon damage rolls made against the target creatures equal to 1d6 points of damage per +1 to attacks your Dark Knowledge check grants.
If you have at least 14 ranks in Knowledge (the planes), allies within 30 feet of you gain an insight bonus to Armor Class that applies to attacks by the affected creatures equal to the attack bonus granted by your Dark Knowledge ability.

DARK KNOWLEDGE, DREAD SECRET
Prerequisites: Spellcaster level 11, Knowledge (the planes) 11 ranks, Dark Knowledge, Dark Knowledge (foe).
Benefit: By speaking aloud a dread secret, you can dazzle a single Dark Knowledge target creature for 1 round, if you succeed at a DC 15 Knowledge (the planes) check. If your check results are 25 or higher, then the target is dazed for 1 round. If the results are 35 or higher, then the target is stunned for 1 round (if the target is immune to being stunned but not immune to being dazed, such as most undead, then you can choose to daze the target instead of stunning it).

SCHOOL RESISTANCE
Benefit: Choose one school of magic. You gain a +2 bonus to all saving throws against spells and effects of that school.
Special: Elves and half-elves gain School Resistance (Enchantment) as a bonus feat (this also supercedes the monk's Still Mind class feature).
You may take this feat multiple times; each time, you may choose to select a new school, or to increase the bonus against an existing school by +2.

Sovereign Court

Fiachra wrote:

Meh. Your tainted blood and foul breath are an offense to all that is civil.

And leave the little one alone. I'm toying with the idea of taking her on as MY familiar.

She bites!


Jess Door wrote:
Fiachra wrote:

Meh. Your tainted blood and foul breath are an offense to all that is civil.

And leave the little one alone. I'm toying with the idea of taking her on as MY familiar.

She bites!

I'm counting on it.

;)


This just in: added Spirit Guide as a 4th druid "nature's bond" option, thereby largely superceding the Spirit Shaman (Complete Divine).

Divine casters, at 1st level, should also be able to pick wizard or sorcerer casting mechanics to follow for the rest of their career -- I think it's cool for druids in particular to have "powers" rather than fire-and-forget spells.


Hey Kirth, are you SURE that the Archivist feats should require being a spellcaster? I could see some rogues, or heck, experts that would be pretty interesting while following that feat chain.

(Just picture an expert 'commander' leading a squad of warriors on a scouting mission in new territory lmao)


kyrt-ryder wrote:
Hey Kirth, are you SURE that the Archivist feats should require being a spellcaster? I could see some rogues, or heck, experts that would be pretty interesting while following that feat chain. (Just picture an expert 'commander' leading a squad of warriors on a scouting mission in new territory lmao)

That's a pretty good thought, Kyrt. I may eliminate that particular prerequisite after all...

Sovereign Court

Kirth Gersen wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
Hey Kirth, are you SURE that the Archivist feats should require being a spellcaster? I could see some rogues, or heck, experts that would be pretty interesting while following that feat chain. (Just picture an expert 'commander' leading a squad of warriors on a scouting mission in new territory lmao)
That's a pretty good thought, Kyrt. I may eliminate that particular prerequisite after all...

Dark Knowledge is just a step up from Knowledge Devotion...or maybe a step sideways.


Jess Door wrote:
Dark Knowledge is just a step up from Knowledge Devotion...or maybe a step sideways.

That's true! And, that being the case, I'd like to reconcile them into a single feat/chain if possible... (adds task to scribble pad "to do" list).


Jess Door wrote:
Dark Knowledge is just a step up from Knowledge Devotion...or maybe a step sideways.

OK, the following is really going to make you angry. Please try and understand my reasoning before getting too upset!

The Knowledge Devotion feat, and also the archivist's various Dark Knowledge class features, are better than a ranger with favored enemies and a hunter's bond in every conceivable way (except for the random skill bonuses) -- potentially better bonuses, against FAR more creature types (potentially all creatures), and the bonuses apply to more allies, etc. It REALLY bothers me that one feat (Knowledge Devotion) can supercede one of the ranger's major class features with nothing more than an easy skill check.

Unless someone can convince me to do otherwise, I have therefore converted Knowledge Devotion and Dark Knowledge to Favored Enemy feats, as follows. These supercede the draft Dark Knowledge feats posted above, and especially the Knowledge Devotion feat.

FAVORED ENEMY
Prerequisites: Knowledge (lore), Knowledge (the planes), Profession (mining), Spellcraft, Streetwise, or Survival 1 rank.
Benefit: You have an expansive knowledge of a specific type of creatures and their behavior, and are skilled in fighting them. Choose one of the skills listed above in which you possess at least 1 rank. Based on that skill, choose an associated creature type from the lists below:

  • Knowledge (lore): Dragons or giants;
  • Knowledge (the planes): Elementals and elemental outsiders, good outsiders, evil outsiders, lawful outsiders, chaotic outsiders, or undead;
  • Profession (mining): Aberrerations, uncivilized humanoids, monstrous humanoids, or oozes;
  • Spellcraft: Arcanists (those using arcane spells or spell-like abilities) or constructs;
  • Streetwise: Civilized humanoids;
  • Survival: Animals, fey, giants, magical beasts, plants.

    You gain a +2 insight bonus to attacks, damage, and Bluff, Knowledge, Perception, and Survival checks against creatures of the selected type.
    Special: You can select this feat multiple times. Each time, either select a different creature type, or increase the bonus to an existing type by +2. A ranger can select this feat to increase his bonus against a more specific favored enemy type (as a kind of specialization) or to gain access to a specific different type earlier than normal. This feat also supercedes the Knowledge Devotion feat (from Complete Champion), and also the Archivist’s dark knowledge class feature (from Heroes of Horror).

    DEFENSE, FAVORED
    Prerequisites: Knowledge (lore), Knowledge (the planes), Profession (mining), Spellcraft, Streetwise, or Survival 5 ranks; Favored Enemy.
    Benefit: Select a favored enemy. You add your favored enemy bonus as an insight bonus to saving throws against the extraordinary, spell-like, and supernatural abilities of enemies of that type.
    Source: This feat supercedes the Archivist’s puissance class feature, from Heroes of Horror.

    DODGE, FAVORED (COMBAT)
    Study of your favored enemy's movements allows you to dance away from its most vicious attacks.
    Prerequisites: Dodge, favored enemy.
    Benefit: Select a favored enemy. When fighting a creature of that type you may add your favored enemy bonus to your Armor Class as a dodge bonus. This bonus applies to your Armor Class against creatures of the appropriate type only. If you lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class for any reason, you also lose this dodge bonus.
    Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Instead, each time you take the feat you must choose a different favored enemy type.
    Source: Dragon magazine, issue 335. This feat also supercedes the Archivist’s foreknowledge class feature, from Heroes of Horror.

    DREAD SECRET
    Prerequisites: Knowledge (lore), Knowledge (the planes), Profession (mining), Spellcraft, Streetwise, or Survival 11 ranks; Favored Enemy.
    Benefit: By speaking aloud a dread secret, you can dazzle a single favored enemy creature for 1 round. If you succeed at an associated skill check (see Favored Enemy, above) and the results are 25 or higher, then the target is dazed for 1 round. If the results are 35 or higher, then the target is stunned for 1 round (if the target is immune to being stunned but not immune to being dazed, such as most undead, then you can choose to daze the target instead of stunning it).
    Source: This feat supercedes the Archivist class feature of the same name, from Heroes of Horror.

    HUNTING PARTY
    Prerequisites: Knowledge (lore), Knowledge (the planes), Profession (mining), Spellcraft, Streetwise, or Survival 8 ranks; Favored Enemy.
    Benefit: You can spend a move action to grant half your favored enemy bonus to companions within 30 feet who can see and hear you. This bonus lasts for 1 minute. If you have the Favored Defense or Favored Dodge feat, half of those bonuses apply to affected allies as well.
    Special: This bonus does not stack with any favored enemy bonuses possessed by your allies; they use whichever bonus is higher. A ranger selecting this feat need not meet the skill prerequisites.
    Source: This feat supercedes the ranger’s hunter’s bond class feature from the Pathfinder RPG rules, and also the archivist’s Dark Knowledge class feature, from Heroes of Horror.


  • Kirth Gersen wrote:
    Jess Door wrote:
    Dark Knowledge is just a step up from Knowledge Devotion...or maybe a step sideways.

    OK, the following is really going to make you angry. Please try and understand my reasoning before getting too upset!

    The Knowledge Devotion feat, and also the archivist's various Dark Knowledge class features, are better than a ranger with favored enemies and a hunter's bond in every conceivable way (except for the random skill bonuses) -- potentially better bonuses, against FAR more creature types (potentially all creatures), and the bonuses apply to more allies, etc. It REALLY bothers me that one feat (Knowledge Devotion) can supercede one of the ranger's major class features with nothing more than an easy skill check.

    Unless someone can convince me to do otherwise, I have therefore converted Knowledge Devotion and Dark Knowledge to Favored Enemy feats, as follows. These supercede the draft Dark Knowledge feats posted above, and especially the Knowledge Devotion feat.

    You know... that wouldn't have been a problem if you'd accepted my advice on how to handle favored enemies.

    (For onlookers, the way it worked was a massive focusing in of them like Kirth's done, maybe 12 or 13 total, and each of them add's to the total with them all having the same value, aka at level 10 a ranger would have 3 broad favored enemies all at +6)

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