NOTE: This is a cross forum post from the skills board.
One thing that no game I've ever seen, except Conan the RPG, got scholars or wizards correct in the skill system. These people are supposed to be book worms with lots of knowledge, yet they always get 2 + int in skills. Granted they have a high INT usually, but that doesn't make up for it.
I purpose the following as a class ability:
Scholar (Ex)
You gain 3 skill points per Hit Dice in addition to your current skill point total granted from your class. These additional skill points must go into knowledge, craft, or profession skills. This is to represent the vast knowledge your wizard gains through study and profession.
I'm not sure on the wording, but that's basically what I suggest. If you directly increase the wizard skill point total then they can put the skills anywhere, so it wouldn't work as well.
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?
Wizards have plenty of skill points as it is.
Here's a thought, make this an alternate class feature wizards can take instead of arcane bond.
Any thoughts?Wizards have plenty of skill points as it is.
Here's a thought, make this an alternate class feature wizards can take instead of arcane bond.
Consider this:
The average wizard will have an intelligence of 16, granting them a +3 modifier to their skill pool. This will gain them 5 skills to disperse among all knowledges, crafts, professions, spellcraft, and concentration. And that's just the skills required to best the role; we aren't giving any extras for those skills you may want as an actual character.
All wizards need Spellcraft, Concentration, and Knowledge Arcana -- minimum -- to perform in their role. Upon that, Wizards are seen as "Lore Masters" and those whom one would visit when seeking information or assistance.
To each their own, but I am always running out of skill points as a wizard and rogue.
Consider this:
The average wizard will have an intelligence of 16, granting them a +3 modifier to their skill pool. This will gain them 5 skills to disperse among all knowledges, crafts, professions, spellcraft, and concentration. And that's just the skills required to best the role; we aren't giving any extras for those skills you may want as an actual character.
Unless he's human, in which case he'll add at least 1 extra skill point, 2 if he rolled a 16 and put the +2 ability bonus into Int. And if wizard is his favored class, as per the Beta he can gain an extra skill point at each level instead of an extra hit point.
And this is only at 1st level, at higher levels a wizard is almost guaranteed to have more skill points than any other class, unless you have a rogue with an Int almost as high.
All wizards need Spellcraft, Concentration, and Knowledge Arcana -- minimum -- to perform in their role. Upon that, Wizards are seen as "Lore Masters" and those whom one would visit when seeking information or assistance.
Concentration for PRPG has been folded into Spellcraft (though the Beta might undo that, who knows), and given that the "average" wizard will have more than 2 skill points for each level, I don't see why they can't still be "Lore Masters" by putting a couple of points into the other Knowledge skills, or a couple of Craft or Profession ones.
To each their own, but I am always running out of skill points as a wizard and rogue.
Given that Pathfinder has consolidated a fair number of skills, reducing the size of the skill list, I think you'll find this happening far less than you do in 3.5.
I'd also like to point out that not every skill needs to have Ranks=Level. After 10th level, skills like Craft, Handle Animal, Perform, Profession, and Ride have almost no need for additional ranks. Especially for a wizard, who at 10th level could have a Craft modifier of +17 (10 ranks, +3 class bonus, +4 Int bonus), which means he can craft acid without needing to roll, and makes things like alchemist's fire on a 3 or higher.
However, if you still feel like wizards don't have enough skill points, consider bumping them and all the other 2 + Int mod classes to 4 + Int mod skills per level.
Doing that would give a 16 Int non-human wizard at least 7 skill points at 1st level.
Given that Pathfinder has consolidated a fair number of skills, reducing the size of the skill list, I think you'll find this happening far less than you do in 3.5.
I applaud this.
The average wizard will have an intelligence of 16, granting them a +3 modifier to their skill pool. This will gain them 5 skills to disperse among all knowledges, crafts, professions, spellcraft, and concentration. And that's just the skills required to best the role; we aren't giving any extras for those skills you may want as an actual character.
All wizards need Spellcraft, Concentration, and Knowledge Arcana -- minimum -- to perform in their role. Upon that, Wizards are seen as "Lore Masters" and those whom one would visit when seeking information or assistance.
To each their own, but I am always running out of skill points as a wizard and rogue.
First, concentration is gone so that frees up 1 skill point/ level. Second, Paizo added a +2 INT to humans and elves so they are more likely to start with 17 or 18 INT than 16. So by 4th level a typical wizard will have 6 skill points per level, a human 7 per level. This gives him enough skill points to max out spellcraft and 5-6 knowledge skills or more likely to max out a few and spread the rest around to maximize his skill bonus and INT bonus. So at 4th level the typical wizard's skills will look like this:
Assume wizard uses the elite array (15 INT +2 for Elf/ Human) adds 1 to INT at 4th level. Maxes out Spellcraft.
Skill total bonus/ ranks/ INT Mod/ Class Skill Modifier
K(Arc) +11 4/4/3
K(Dun) +11 4/4/3
K(Eng) +8 1/4/3
K(Geo) +8 1/4/3
K(His) +8 1/4/3
K(Loc) +8 1/4/3
K(Nat) +9 2/4/3
K(Nob) +8 1/4/3
K(Pln) +8 1/4/3
K(Rel) +11 4/4/3
A human would have 4 additional skill points to spread around. Whenever a wizard gains an INT boosting item it boosts every single K skill, whenever he increases his innate INT it boosts them and grants an additional Skill Point/ level.
Wizards were given a huge skill gift in Pathfinder with the change to the class skill bonus, and the retroactive Skill Point boost. INT boosting items also add skill ranks in specific skills as well (depending on the item).
The wizard is the one class that doesn't need any help with skills. Sorcerer, Fighter, Barbarian... They could probably use a little help there but not the wizard.
Oh... I just remembered. In the #2 Beta teaser Jason mentioned that the favored class mechanism now gives the option of +1 skill point/ level which boosts the number of skill points available for a wizard even more.
Well, that'd be Fast Learner (Specialized in Skills, Corrupted to Knowledges Only, for +3 SP/Level)(OGL free shareware Feat source here: http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=51255 ). Whether your GM will let you get away with that, or with the Fast Learner feat in the first place, is up to him or her. It all depends on how important knowledge skills are in a particular game I suppose.
The point that skills has been consolidated is true but that hasn't applied as much to the main skills of the wizard as it has to those of the rogue who already got the most skill points.
I agree with the skill consolidation that was done, but for a class that spends as much time in a library as the do adventuring, the 2 per level is woefully unrealistic. Of all the classes, the wizard should have some of the highest number of skill points.
Dividing skill point allotments between physical and mental would be a good adjustment to account for this discrepancy.
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I bumped the wizard to a (Int mod +3)x4 at first level and Int mod +3 every level after that. It seems to give my wizard PC enough skill points to do stuff with them, but not alot so it overpowers the already impressive wizard.
Also, have you tried giving your PC's "down time"? I try to let my PC's do things that aren't combat related. EX: researching spells might add a +1 to knowledge: arcana or Spellcraft when you memorize 5 spells or so.
Just my 2 cp.