So last session the DM tells us that there are two brazeers that are on fire and moving toward us. Of course he meant braziers. [i][/i].
My response: "So we are being attacked by hot lingerie."
So last session the DM tells us that there are two brazeers that are on fire and moving toward us...
This has happened in one of my games as well. We are still reminding him about the "big giant flaming brazeers" to this day. Funny stuff. :)
Well, we played again tonight, continuing from our first session last week. After we defeated the boarders, we learned that they were hired by a local crimeboss based on Al Swearengen from Deadwood (I'm the only one who noticed). We visited the crime boss and after a tense skill challenge, learned that he didn't mean for his men to go as far as they did and as recompense, he told us that the "box" that was stolen from our airship (a box we never knew about) was taken to an abandoned copper mine a few hours away from the city of Hearth's Peak, which was now inhabited by kobolds (former slaves).
When we arrived, we found evidence of a battle between the kobolds and a tribe of fearsome orcs. Foolishly IMO, we entered the mine shaft and quickly fell prey to a group of kobolds and their traps (mine carts rushed at us from one spur and there was a quite dangerous pit trap that almost took out our dragonborn fighter). We were rolling very poorly (especially me), so it took us a while to take out all of the very mobile kobolds. After we finally dispatched the little buggers, we took a short rest and investigated the aftermath of the battle between the kobolds and orcs.
After we were ready, we advanced farther down the tunnels. We avoided a tunnel apparently full of wounded kobolds and descended farther into the mine. Since my artificer multi-classed into rogue, I assumed the role of scout and took point. I advanced ahead and found a large room (a former temple) filled with bodies. Some undead massed in front of a pair of double doors: an orc zombie, two decrepit skeletons, and a pair of grave hounds. I had an idea and gestured back to my compatriots, who were trailing behind me. I didn't tell them what I was doing and pantomimed what I was trying to do (our warlock player looked at me quizically as I gestured). I took aim with my crossbow and struck with surprise, and thus combat advantage, with my encounter power, an area burst power. I hit every single one of the undead with the burst centered on the zombie, immediately bloodying it (thank you sneak attack) and destroying the two decrepit skeletons. I didn't take us much to finish off the remaining undead, though the dragonborn was taken down to 1 hit point from ongoing necrotic damage.
After investigating the temple (a defiled shrine to a demigoddess known as the Faceless One), we threw open the double doors only to meet the necromantic pirate captain from our first combat and his skeleton minions. The thing about the room was that there were a pair of strange, ebony pillars that allowed the necromancer to summon additional skeleton minions. Now facing six skeletons and a powerful spellcaster, I came up with an idea. Since the room was extremely cramped, I used my daily power, caustic ramparts to build a wall of acid totally around the necromancer, cutting him off from his minions and the ebony pillars (not to mention, he would take damage when he began his turn). I totally screwed the DM's plans, and as I laughed, the dragonborn took out the minions with his breath weapon. The necromancer fled into an adjoining room, where he made his last stand (I was content to let him go, but the dragonborn decided to break the door down).
That's where we ended the session.
Based on the dozen or so sessions played so far by my group:
- Character creation is fun.
- 4th edition makes being the DM so much easier to manage (esp. regarding prep time) that it is a breeze to run the game.
- The streamlining/changing of things such as invisibility, grapple (grab), being able to drink potions and open doors as minor actions, not being penalized for standing up from prone, nat 20s being criticals automatically, etc. do make the game easier/fun.
- The streamlining of character choices in the initial player's handbook is limiting.
- Fights are longer due to the high HP count of monsters, and usually eat up a lot of the session.
- No one in my group enjoys skill challenges.
- Passive perception checks save time, but annoy my players.
- Wizards are not "artillery" characters. Of course, it says that right in the Player's Handbook, but old habits die hard.
- The whole 1/2 level bonus to skills makes buying them easier, but makes my players feel like their skill choices aren't as relevant.
- No one in my group is that wild about Keep On The Shadowfell, but they all think its a great name for a module.
Why don't you guys like skill challenges? We've had two of them in our campaign (so far); we succeeded so easily on the first one (didn't fail one roll), which gave us the sweet thrill of victory, while the second was very tense for me (I was convinced that the crime boss we were talking to was going to have us killed, especially since the dragonborn kept on trying to intimdate him; it was getting so bad, I was seriously considering a pre-emptive strike).
As for skills, man, while the 1/2 level bonus is nice, training makes the world of difference, especially if you have a low stat modifier (like me, with my now mighty +1 in every Charisma based skill). Everyone at our table is now seriously considering taking skill training and/or skill focus feats just to get an extra boost; our warlock took the Jack-of-all-Trades feat at 2nd level (we seriously need a character with decent social skills, plus a striker. If anyone in Madison WI wants to play a face-man ranger, just let me know).
I ended my first group session of homamade adv that took them from
1-3 level
So..do I qualify as experienched in the 4th editon?? lol
the 4th edition is all about team work guys =)
Lets face it in the first runs my players all choose their most hard hitting powers and went through hell to finish just the easy ones encs!
Latter they figured out their powers effects and how to help one another and go almost fluidly now...even if they do mistakes in strategy now and then.
From my point of view 4th is actually more fun in combat...it is way easier and has a <spectacular> thing going on. Battle just seems <cooller> for some reason!
And okie..skills are funny...but use ur imagination people to create complex skill checks for every thing.
In 3th..u picked a lock with a simple thievery check? Okie..now do it with a more complex (3 to 1 fail) skill...and flourish it...put intelligence...arcana...nature or whatever in traps =)
Gennerally get a nice booklet and make ur own common skill checks (it helps)
Afterall...Dming has become easier in converting the other stuff...and u get a nice selection of monsters in the new books...so use that time in making <skills look cool>
The only thing that bugs me are (and I want ur opinions in those)
...seriously...
1)is the limit in level for magic artifacs (that is a rule that I keep but...)
2)the 1/5price economy system...(I allow parties to spend time selling their wares by themselves and to fetch better prices with bartering and haggling..mainly series of streetwise/diplomacy/insight checks)
3)and most important...how does the hell the encounter making system works???
I have 6 characters...I have 600xps to distibute...sooo...I choose what? I just <pay> for the level of the creature not considering its level? Or I choose like only 4 levels up..(as I do now)
I do not mean for the solo and their roles...those I get and it is fun!
I just do not get how to make a enc more difficult...or easier...
I upgrade the level of them? or just put more exps in it?
And How many difficult ones must be in a level adventure...as many as I want as long as I soak up enc from my ten per level?
Like...I make an enc for a second level party...I use 2 level1 from my ten I have to create a campaing or what???
I do not think I made sense now do I? But it is messy anyway...
For some reason my party does not seem to cut through even goblins with the ease they had in 3rd edition....
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The only thing that bugs me are (and I want ur opinions in those)
...seriously...
1)is the limit in level for magic artifacs (that is a rule that I keep but...)
The good news here is that the limit is not a hard and fast rule for item use - you can be a 1st level character and use a 25th level item. You can only craft items that are your level or lower however.
2)the 1/5price economy system...(I allow parties to spend time selling their wares by themselves and to fetch better prices with bartering and haggling..mainly series of streetwise/diplomacy/insight checks)
Yeah. Not eactly sure why they did this. However a PC can disenchant items and use the bits to make new items.
3)and most important...how does the hell the encounter making system works???
I have not used it, so I can't really comment.
The encounter building system is fully described in the 4e DMG. Basically, an encounter of level x has a certain XP budget; you then spend your XP budget on monsters, traps, and hazards (their level determines the XP, as does there status as a minion, standard, elite, or solo creature).
The encounter building system is fully described in the 4e DMG. Basically, an encounter of level x has a certain XP budget; you then spend your XP budget on monsters, traps, and hazards (their level determines the XP, as does there status as a minion, standard, elite, or solo creature).
I know this as I say...
how u build a harder one? Only put more Exp in the limit?There are balancing issues. I can use these exp with high level creatures and it is way more difficut to be beated..
I need more pression in how we mix it up...I mean now strategic DMs can do a lot damage. We need rules to say how many of what we are allowed..And I mean more than the <wolf pack and all> descriptions..
We need like a tactica suplemment or something. (And a torret to download it)
D&D is kinda meeting warhammer in group strategy here =)
and can u use an item if it is more levels than u? Seriously?
I think I read u need the level too...it was only for crafting?
I must really review thos books when I am more free in time!
ant tottally irrelevant...thes scale of war stories...how u get the maps for them? how u rint them out or anything? I want to use them...adventures look a lot more cooler with floorplans
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I know this as I say...
how u build a harder one? Only put more Exp in the limit?
There are balancing issues. I can use these exp with high level creatures and it is way more difficut to be beated..
A balanced encounter is one of equal level to the party. To have a more difficult encounter choose a higher level (and recommendations on this are in the DMG), and spend the xp budget for that level.
I need more pression in how we mix it up...I mean now strategic DMs can do a lot damage. We need rules to say how many of what we are allowed..And I mean more than the <wolf pack and all> descriptions..
We need like a tactica suplemment or something. (And a torret to download it)
D&D is kinda meeting warhammer in group strategy here =)
There is a lot more strategy involved but the learning curve is relatively easy to go with and unless your players are russian chess masters or military specialists you should be a ble to keep up and challenge them. Incidentally I assume your referring to a fan based tactics book and not alluding to any form of piracy?
and can u use an item if it is more levels than u? Seriously?
I think I read u need the level too...it was only for crafting?
I must really review thos books when I am more free in time!
You can use an item of any level, it's more a guideline for dm's for when the players should be getting them and yes it does relate to the level they can be crafted at.
ant tottally irrelevant...thes scale of war stories...how u get the maps for them? how u rint them out or anything? I want to use them...adventures look a lot more cooler with floorplans
You download the adventure and print them off? There are plenty of ways to increase the map size as required, lots of programs and such which I'm sure some technical soul here can advise on.
As an aside if your the DM I heartily suggest you read the book again, with respect whilst memorisation of the rules is not mandatory you need at least a passing familiarity or your game will struggle.
**Sigh, remembers big 2nd edition Shadowrun fiasco***
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This is my first ever post in the 4E forums, so please be nice ...
I have not played 4E, and in the interest of full disclosure, I have a pretty negative view of it based on what I have heard, read and experienced (note, of course, that I haven't actually sat down and played)
Having said that, I'm still trying to have an open mind. I do have one question that hasn't specifically been asked, but seems like it HAS to be asked:
Many people are comparing 4E to 3E, but I haven't seen anyone specifically compare experiences playing in a 4E game with playing in a Pathfinder (3.75 in other words) game. Given that the Pathfinder rules are striving to keep 3.5 BUT fix those things that need fixing (many of which have been listed so far as reasons why 4E is so much better) ... it seems like actual play experiences comparing how 4E plays VS how Pathfinder plays is pretty vital.
Let's face it. WOTC is not supporting 3.5 any more. So, really, we need to be comparing the two current D&D choices.
For example, 4E now has at will powers for spellcasters so they don't run out of cool things to do, but so does Pathfinder. So, it's not exactly fair or accurate to list this as a reason why 4E is superior to 3E. See what I mean?
I bring this up, personally, because I am playing using the Pathfinder rules and LOVING it!!!! What I need to know from those of you that have given both systems a reasonable chance is ... how do they compare?
Thanks!!!
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This is my first ever post in the 4E forums, so please be nice ...
I have not played 4E, and in the interest of full disclosure, I have a pretty negative view of it based on what I have heard, read and experienced (note, of course, that I haven't actually sat down and played)
Having said that, I'm still trying to have an open mind. I do have one question that hasn't specifically been asked, but seems like it HAS to be asked:
Many people are comparing 4E to 3E, but I haven't seen anyone specifically compare experiences playing in a 4E game with playing in a Pathfinder (3.75 in other words) game. Given that the Pathfinder rules are striving to keep 3.5 BUT fix those things that need fixing (many of which have been listed so far as reasons why 4E is so much better) ... it seems like actual play experiences comparing how 4E plays VS how Pathfinder plays is pretty vital.
Let's face it. WOTC is not supporting 3.5 any more. So, really, we need to be comparing the two current D&D choices.
For example, 4E now has at will powers for spellcasters so they don't run out of cool things to do, but so does Pathfinder. So, it's not exactly fair or accurate to list this as a reason why 4E is superior to 3E. See what I mean?
I bring this up, personally, because I am playing using the Pathfinder rules and LOVING it!!!! What I need to know from those of you that have given both systems a reasonable chance is ... how do they compare?
Thanks!!!
It's a fair question. Having played both (though not a full or continuous campaign yet) I didn't find PFRG to fix any (or even some) of the issues I have with 3.x, nor maintain enough backward compatability to make it worthwhile to ignore them.
I find as a DM 4E to be more dynamic and generally more enjoyable
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I had a few problems with 4e though, I found combat took to long to resolve, an encounter equal to our CR could take 1 hour versus 15 minutes in 3.5.Wow! What's your secret? I would die for a 15 minute equal CR encounter in 3.5.
I think it's entirely an artefact of how comfortable / experienced you are with a system.
NPC creation, even complex NPCs (multiple classes, racial HD, races I'd just made up) goes really fast for me, as does combat. The 3.E mechanics really click for me, and reading Mike Mearls talk about how character creation is 'like really boring math' or how it takes an hour or more to write up a mid-level character just reinforces that what works so easily for me ends up being really cumbersome and counter-intuitive to other people, who are probably just as smart as me (or smarter!), but run along a different mental track.
Coming up with dialogue and scenic descriptions is the big slowdown for me, so I end up wasting most of my 'prep time' trying to think of snappy things for the NPC to say, or vivid descriptions that I have to write down so that I don't freeze up and forget them while DMing and end up naming every NPC 'Bob' and forgetting all of the room descriptions and stuff... I can do creative, but creative and spontaneous? Total brain-freeze!
Yes...but the DM book is very very fluid.
We come from Warhammer40000 lol...Strategy is well a think for us.
And of course I do not mean piracy....Arrhhhgg Harr...of course!
And these floorplans should be available...appart from floor and etc..
Why we need the others books? The pdfs are waayyyyy better! And they will make it with subscription anyway...so we better save up to pay when we would not be able to do otherwise!
I am thinking about ditching my tiefling warlock and replacing him with an eladrin warlock-wizard with the fey pact + thunderwave spell, which I guess gives me more stuff to do instead of just eldritch blast over and over again. Any players who tried that combination?
Last Sunday we had another go at 4e. I had my DM rework my original concept to the one I've quoted above and finally, in my opinion, we had a decent adventure. The main reasons 'why' are as follows:
- More options
- 1 combat encounter
- We finally got out of the dungeon!
More options
My new and improved concept gave me more powers from different sources, which I think gave me the feeling that I was beyond 4e's straightjacket, maybe I was / am fooling myself, but atleast I was finally having fun.
1 combat encounter
We finished with a major confrontation involving numerous foes. This is the encounter I enjoy running as a DM and I guess as a player too. Everybody got to use everything at their disposal, no holding back your daily power.
Getting out of the dungeon!
This was the key part, our DM uses the town that is in the DMG: Fallcrest(?), which the first two sessions we were aware of, but he put is in the kobold hall with mission from Fallcrest without first running Fallcrest itself. This is probably why 4e didn't suck me in, if you just put people in the dungeon, there is no involvement. You are just rolling dice and that doesn't work for me. So we roleplayed for 4 hours and then ended up doing the combat encounter which also lasted a full hour.
So lessons learned: You can roleplay in 4e and stay the hell away from WotC's idea of dungeons ;>
Maybe there is hope for 4e yet ;>
I am looking for peoples in game experiences and reviews.
After some getting used to, the rules seem to play well.
My group (unanimously) doesn't like the characters, though. Lots of customization and variety in combat abilities (and a lot of great rules), but we feel that character generation offers little to differentiate characters beyond that.
Your mileage may vary :)
I am looking for peoples in game experiences and reviews.After some getting used to, the rules seem to play well.
My group (unanimously) doesn't like the characters, though. Lots of customization and variety in combat abilities (and a lot of great rules), but we feel that character generation offers little to differentiate characters beyond that.
Your mileage may vary :)
I can't see that myself, I've a group of four players( although another couple of guys joined in last time).
A halfling RogueA human fighter(bit of priest)
A human fighter
A human priest of pelor
Each round is very different for each characters. The priest is calling holy healing onto the others whilst calling aiding blessings as he attacks, the rogue is dodging around cutting at the legs of enemies to force them to where he wants them, The human fighters lack a bit of variation(3 out of 4 At-Wills) but are played very differently from each other(ones a brash barbarian type who goes into battle swinging, whilst the other is a mace and board fighter and more intelligent).
Overall the game seems to be going well, the characters are second level going on third. The only thing I have found is critter HP's are too high for my style of play and I often change them to fit the 'feel' of the encounter.
In Star Wars Saga Edition, the majority of enemies(storm troopers) have only 10 HP's or a few more at higher levels which makes encounters interesting but quick allowing the story to progress and more time for roleplaying and skill challenges.
Each round is very different for each characters. The priest is calling holy healing onto the others whilst calling aiding blessings as he attacks, the rogue is dodging around cutting at the legs of enemies to force them to where he wants them, The human fighters lack a bit of variation(3 out of 4 At-Wills) but are played very differently from each other(ones a brash barbarian type who goes into battle swinging, whilst the other is a mace and board fighter and more intelligent).
That's my point -- combat rules and choices are excellent, but we feel 4e rules offer little or nothing to define a character beyond those combat stats.
It's not a question of good or bad, just what style of play we prefer -- and whether or not 4e improves those specific aspects of play. We don't think it does.
Though for the record, we've come to really dislike the new paradigm on magic items. In our game, magic items are powerful items that can define a character's abilities -- not so with the new rules. 4e defines magic item powers very narrowly, and almost universally in terms relevant to combat.
My group, in contrast, loves items that are not defined primarily in terms of combat abilities. The decanter of endless water was a good example. As first glance, it seems rather pointless. But it's neat, and with a little imagination can offer all sorts of roleplaying opportunities. Neat magic items are a thing of the past.
I think the imaginative use of magic items is something WotC is trying to prevent -- it's potentially unbalancing. By their own admission, great pains were taken to limit the effect of magic items in play.
Just my two cents -- again, your mileage may (and likely will) vary :)
Each round is very different for each characters. The priest is calling holy healing onto the others whilst calling aiding blessings as he attacks, the rogue is dodging around cutting at the legs of enemies to force them to where he wants them, The human fighters lack a bit of variation(3 out of 4 At-Wills) but are played very differently from each other(ones a brash barbarian type who goes into battle swinging, whilst the other is a mace and board fighter and more intelligent).That's my point -- combat rules and choices are excellent, but we feel 4e rules offer little or nothing to define a character beyond those combat stats.
It's not a question of good or bad, just what style of play we prefer -- and whether or not 4e improves those specific aspects of play. We don't think it does.
Though for the record, we've come to really dislike the new paradigm on magic items. In our game, magic items are powerful items that can define a character's abilities -- not so with the new rules. 4e defines magic item powers very narrowly, and almost universally in terms relevant to combat.
My group, in contrast, loves items that are not defined primarily in terms of combat abilities. The decanter of endless water was a good example. As first glance, it seems rather pointless. But it's neat, and with a little imagination can offer all sorts of roleplaying opportunities. Neat magic items are a thing of the past.
I think the imaginative use of magic items is something WotC is trying to prevent -- it's potentially unbalancing. By their own admission, great pains were taken to limit the effect of magic items in play.
Just my two cents -- again, your mileage may (and likely will) vary :)
I've found the powers to be more combat orientated but with imagination some of them can be used in a less combat based manner. but this is always the case, after all how often do you get a non 4th edition Fighter using Power Attack, Expertise in a non-combat way or even Sneak Attack of a Rogue!!
My players are roleplaying their characters as they always do. The halfing rogue is glib of tongue and whilst slightly dubious he is courageous and good natured, the Priest is fervent in his beliefs and takes responsibility for a great deal of the parties actions(bit Paladinic), the brash fighter is mouthy and prone to make himself a laughing stock but is enthusiastic and the fighter priest is in between, he's a solid defender and trustworthy but cautious.The section on building the character in the early part of the PHB is among the best I've seen and asks some good questions about the characters reactions to situations. Seems rather odd to put such detail in if the intention was to curtail roleplaying. Likewise with the skill challenge examples which are full of roleplaying demonstrations to back up the skill rolls.
As for magic items, I do agree but I was going to put my own fun\ individual magical items into the game.