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Sovereign Court

Aberzombie wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
knightnday wrote:


That actually isn't a bad idea, given the number of "I am leaving because ..." threads.

As far as the rest goes, this is the 3rd forum I've watched Razz leave from, and I'm waiting on this post to appear on the 4th. Goodbye Razz.

You have my deepest sympathies.
Sebastian offering sympathies? Let me see....yep, that is #6 on the "Ten Sure Signs of the Coming Apocalypse". Damnit! Pull yourself together man! You're better than that.

Don't forget that he apologized to numerous people, cried like a baby and needed hugs in another thread.


Callous Jack wrote:
Don't forget that he apologized...

Proof that it was not actually Sebastian. I demand the body snatching aliens tell us what they have done with the real Sebastian.

Sovereign Court

CourtFool wrote:
Callous Jack wrote:
Don't forget that he apologized...
Proof that it was not actually Sebastian. I demand the body snatching aliens tell us what they have done with the real Sebastian.

Aliens? I thought they were bright pink and purple ponies...


You’ve seen them in their true form?!


Wow...
I never expected Paizo to join the sickening PC (politically correct)crowd.
WotC is bad enough, but now the 4e Avengers have infected this forum with their blind Obama-like faith...

I never expected that...
However, I will battle them here too until such a time that I get perma-banned...

And by the way... WotC and 4e suck... bad...

Scarab Sages

DoppleGangster wrote:

Wow...

I never expected Paizo to join the sickening PC (politically correct)crowd.
WotC is bad enough, but now the 4e Avengers have infected this forum with their blind Obama-like faith...

I never expected that...
However, I will battle them here too until such a time that I get perma-banned...

And by the way... WotC and 4e suck... bad...

I have a feeling that might not take long. :)

Really, I don't think anyone has ever been perma-banned here. Usually they just get into a huff over a supressed post or a temporary time-out and then never come back.

I'll let others with more authority tell you whether your dreams of banning can come true...

Sovereign Court

CourtFool wrote:
You’ve seen them in their true form?!

A herd of them galloped by on a dark, moonless night once.


Jal Dorak wrote:
DoppleGangster wrote:

Wow...

I never expected Paizo to join the sickening PC (politically correct)crowd.
WotC is bad enough, but now the 4e Avengers have infected this forum with their blind Obama-like faith...

I never expected that...
However, I will battle them here too until such a time that I get perma-banned...

And by the way... WotC and 4e suck... bad...

I have a feeling that might not take long. :)

Really, I don't think anyone has ever been perma-banned here. Usually they just get into a huff over a supressed post or a temporary time-out and then never come back.

I'll let others with more authority tell you whether your dreams of banning can come true...

Well, WotC was handing out bans like Crack in Compton over any negative reviews of 4e...

Why does Paizo even care?

Sovereign Court

Paizo is a company, it needs to make money and keep it's customers happy. The money of 4E folks is just as good as anyone else and many 4E fans support the Pathfinder line. So why let trolls drive these customers away and make what is a good forum into a hostile environment for anyone that is "against 3E?"

Scarab Sages

DoppleGangster wrote:

Well, WotC was handing out bans like Crack in Compton over any negative reviews of 4e...

Why does Paizo even care?

Because people don't want to come to a messageboard to feel bad or be unfairly attacked. Also, Callous taps into Paizo's feelings accurately above.

I'm just getting an "aggressive poster" vibe, not helped by making comments about living conditions, and using words like "battle", and admitting you plan or expect to be banned. This is a pretty tolerant* community, but things have gotten a little hot recently.

People won't take kindly to you coming in here guns blazing looking to stir up trouble. This is just some helpful advice for getting along with others here.

*Except for Sebastian. He is a pony-raising lawyer. ;)


Jal Dorak wrote:
DoppleGangster wrote:

Well, WotC was handing out bans like Crack in Compton over any negative reviews of 4e...

Why does Paizo even care?

Because people don't want to come to a messageboard to feel bad or be unfairly attacked. Also, Callous taps into Paizo's feelings accurately above.

I'm just getting an "aggressive poster" vibe, not helped by making comments about living conditions, and using words like "battle", and admitting you plan or expect to be banned. This is a pretty tolerant* community, but things have gotten a little hot recently.

People won't take kindly to you coming in here guns blazing looking to stir up trouble. This is just some helpful advice for getting along with others here.

*Except for Sebastian. He is a pony-raising lawyer. ;)

If by aggressive poster you mean one who has their own opinion and are not afraid to share it and disagree with others opinions, and do not blindly follow the masses, then, yeah, I am an aggressive poster...

Have I come here with "guns blazing"?
Am I stirring up trouble?
Really?
Please provide links...


While I find the OP to be a bit... unconvincing... I thought other posters here might like the following article for support:
Go to Disappearing freedoms

"Companies in charge of seemingly public spaces online wipe out content that's controversial but otherwise legal. Service providers write their own rules for users worldwide and set foreign policy when they cooperate with regimes like China. They serve as prosecutor, judge and jury in handling disputes behind closed doors.

"The governmental role that companies play online is taking on greater importance as their services — from online hangouts to virtual repositories of photos and video — become more central to public discourse around the world."


roguerouge wrote:

While I find the OP to be a bit... unconvincing... I thought other posters here might like the following article for support:

Go to Disappearing freedoms

"Companies in charge of seemingly public spaces online wipe out content that's controversial but otherwise legal. Service providers write their own rules for users worldwide and set foreign policy when they cooperate with regimes like China. They serve as prosecutor, judge and jury in handling disputes behind closed doors.

"The governmental role that companies play online is taking on greater importance as their services — from online hangouts to virtual repositories of photos and video — become more central to public discourse around the world."

I suppose it's sort of like "It's my ball, I shall take it and go home"...

Scarab Sages

DoppleGangster wrote:


If by aggressive poster you mean one who has their own opinion and are not afraid to share it and disagree with others opinions, and do not blindly follow the masses, then, yeah, I am an aggressive poster...

Have I come here with "guns blazing"?
Am I stirring up trouble?
Really?
Please provide links...

I don't think I can link to the current thread. ;)

Saying you are going to come on these forums to attack something is not a great start, hence my "guns blazing" comment.

I don't want to go into an entire discussion here, it's just that expressing your opinion and disagreeing with someone doesn't have to go hand-in-hand with name-calling, passive-aggressive comments, or self-aggrandizing (not that you have done any of that, I am just tired of it).

EDIT: And to respond to roguerouge's post, I don't think Paizo ever said these messageboards were public. If people are concerned over their voice being heard, they should talk about the issues in true public forums. It's a bit like complaining that your letter to the editor didn't get published.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

DoppleGangster wrote:


If by aggressive poster you mean one who has their own opinion and are not afraid to share it and disagree with others opinions, and do not blindly follow the masses, then, yeah, I am an aggressive poster...

Yeah, I suffer that same problem with people who don't agree with my opinions too. Unlike those bunch of slack-jawed crowd followers, I have carefully thought out and nuanced views. Plus, given that I'm right 100% all the time, I always have the moral high-ground to use whatever tactics are necessary to crush the unbeliving heretics.

For example, just the other day, there was a thread here about someone leaving because this place was too pro-4e. WTF is that? Paizo produces a competing game system - that's like going to Fox News and complaining that it's too liberal.

But hey, I sympathize. There are some really stupid people out there who disagree with me.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
DoppleGangster wrote:

Wow...

I never expected Paizo to join the sickening PC (politically correct)crowd.
WotC is bad enough, but now the 4e Avengers have infected this forum with their blind Obama-like faith...

I never expected that...
However, I will battle them here too until such a time that I get perma-banned...

And by the way... WotC and 4e suck... bad...

Is it okay to be against 4th Edition and for Obama???

:)


Sebastian wrote:
- that's like going to Fox News and complaining that it's too liberal.

Hey now! Fox News is VERY liberal .... they liberally express their love for the current administration. They liberally use speculators (just as liberally as the other news orgs) to "report" their news. How much more liberal can you get?

Scarab Sages

Sebastian, you aren't an aggressive poster (that would be more like Frank), you are just stubborn as a mule. In a good way, though.

Hey, are there mules in Bella Sara?

And now I'm confused, is dopplegangster for or against 4th Edition? For or against Obama? Inquiring minds need to know!

The Exchange

Now thats the Pony loving Sebastian we all know and, love........

Sovereign Court

Hehe, Sebastian's a mule...

The Exchange

Callous Jack wrote:
Hehe, Sebastian's a mule...

Is that a Democrat then?

Scarab Sages

Crimson Jester wrote:
Callous Jack wrote:
Hehe, Sebastian's a mule...
Is that a Democrat then?

Whoa, people! Let's not go bringing politics into a friendly argument.


Jal Dorak wrote:


EDIT: And to respond to roguerouge's post, I don't think Paizo ever said these messageboards were public. If people are concerned over their voice being heard, they should talk about the issues in true public forums. It's a bit like complaining that your letter to the editor didn't get published.

From the article:

"But that underscores another consequence of having online commons controlled by private corporations. Rules aren't always clear, enforcement is inconsistent, and users can find content removed or accounts terminated without a hearing. Appeals are solely at the service provider's discretion."


Jal Dorak wrote:
Crimson Jester wrote:
Callous Jack wrote:
Hehe, Sebastian's a mule...
Is that a Democrat then?
Whoa, people! Let's not go bringing politics into a friendly argument.

Agreed.

One cannot argue with liberalism... it lacks reason.

Scarab Sages

DoppleGangster wrote:

Agreed.

One cannot argue with liberalism... it lacks reason.

I believe a more accurate version of that statement would be:

One should not argue on the internet... it lacks reason.


Ungoded wrote:
DoppleGangster wrote:

Agreed.

One cannot argue with liberalism... it lacks reason.

I believe a more accurate version of that statement would be:

One should not argue on the internet... it lacks reason.

Touche'

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Ungoded wrote:
DoppleGangster wrote:

Agreed.

One cannot argue with liberalism... it lacks reason.

I believe a more accurate version of that statement would be:

One should not argue on the internet... it lacks reason.

Your interpretation is correct; his is not. Liberalism has as much reason as conservatism; the rest is opinion.


dmchucky69 wrote:
Liberalism has as much reason as conservatism; the rest is opinion.

That, my friend, is very debatable...


I hate 4e and 3.5. I have not been banned yet.


CourtFool wrote:
I hate 4e and 3.5. I have not been banned yet.

HERO System sucks!!!

;-)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
DoppleGangster wrote:
dmchucky69 wrote:
Liberalism has as much reason as conservatism; the rest is opinion.
That, my friend, is very debatable...

Oh trust me; I definitely think one is more reasonable than the other. But that is my opinion, and I doubt that you and I would agree on it.


dmchucky69 wrote:
DoppleGangster wrote:
dmchucky69 wrote:
Liberalism has as much reason as conservatism; the rest is opinion.
That, my friend, is very debatable...
Oh trust me; I definitely think one is more reasonable than the other. But that is my opinion, and I doubt that you and I would agree on it.

Yeah...so do I.

LOL

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
DoppleGangster wrote:
dmchucky69 wrote:
DoppleGangster wrote:
dmchucky69 wrote:
Liberalism has as much reason as conservatism; the rest is opinion.
That, my friend, is very debatable...
Oh trust me; I definitely think one is more reasonable than the other. But that is my opinion, and I doubt that you and I would agree on it.

Yeah...so do I.

LOL

LOL. At least we can laugh about it. Maybe there is hope for us after all. :)

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8

Iron Sentinel wrote:
You obviously have a lot of passion for the game of D&D, and the way it's been played prior to 4th edition. Why not take that love of the game and pour it into the development of Pathfinder, which, in my humble opinion, is the spiritual successor to the game you've loved over the years. Even if you don't agree, there is a 3rd edition forum for you.

I believe that he has be told this at some point. He just talked about 4e almost all of the time anyway. He has has a much more limited exposure to other topics. If he were to stop posting about 4e, then it would almost be like he wasn't here at all.

Liberty's Edge

Zynete wrote:
then it would almost be like he wasn't here at all.

.....just like now!


Ixancoatl wrote:
(hateful lies and irresponsible propaganda)

You have just declared yourself a non-entity requiring a ‘final solution’.

Liberty's Edge

roguerouge wrote:


From the article:
"But that underscores another consequence of having online commons controlled by private corporations. Rules aren't always clear, enforcement is inconsistent, and users can find content removed or accounts terminated without a hearing. Appeals are solely at the service provider's discretion."

Fair enough; then the reality is that people just need to police themselves a bit more. If they did, and were a bit more responsible and use a bit more common sense, having the need for clear and concise rules all the time might not be a big issue.

The problem is many people as I said demand freedom of speech while failing to use their freedom of thought.

A good rule of thumb is "if you think it MIGHT be a unwise to submit it....don't."

Robert

Dark Archive

Razz wrote:
Maybe I will create my own forums, call it "Gygax Legacy" or "True D&D" and it'll be a place where everyone can say what they want, negative or positive, about anything (especially 4E and WotC) and not get banned or warned for it --- as long as they don't attack other posters.

That'll work well until someone signs up who doesn't agree with the moderator/founder.


Robert Brambley wrote:
If they did, and were a bit more responsible and use a bit more common sense, having the need for clear and concise rules all the time might not be a big issue.

Common sense isn’t.


Seeing the drama over here made me go look up all of Razz's posts. Definitely gives you something to think about.

Gary Gygax, as far as I have understood from interviews with him, has always wanted gamers to play the games they wanted to play, whatever that may be. But why bother going out of your way to ruin someone else's fun? If you don't like a system, discuss it constructively so that others can gain the benefit of your point of view. If you only deal in absolutes, you are bound to be isolated at some point.

Dark Archive

DaveMage wrote:
joela wrote:
DaveMage wrote:

...

This place is too pro-4E?

I...

I...

*faints*

*Places smelling salts under DaveMage's nose*

Ack! Football practice!

He's up! Call off the mortician....

Sovereign Court

Ixancoatl wrote:
CourtFool wrote:
I hate 4e and 3.5. I have not been banned yet.

HERO System sucks!!!

;-)

What's a Hero system? Does that have something to do with the sandwich?

;-)


Robert Brambley wrote:
roguerouge wrote:


From the article:
"But that underscores another consequence of having online commons controlled by private corporations. Rules aren't always clear, enforcement is inconsistent, and users can find content removed or accounts terminated without a hearing. Appeals are solely at the service provider's discretion."

Fair enough; then the reality is that people just need to police themselves a bit more. If they did, and were a bit more responsible and use a bit more common sense, having the need for clear and concise rules all the time might not be a big issue.

The problem is many people as I said demand freedom of speech while failing to use their freedom of thought.

A good rule of thumb is "if you think it MIGHT be a unwise to submit it....don't."

Robert

Wise words. I've seen this same topic crop up on a variety of gaming sites and games. The sad part is, most of the people calling for so-called 'freedom of speech' are pretty much asking to do whatever they want in the open areas: curse, name-call, etc. When they are asked to moderate their tone and words, they break out the ol' Freedom of Speech and grab a soap box, determined to prove to everyone how their rights are being infringed on.

The only rights on boards, on-line games, or whereever is what the mods/admin/owners allow you to have. The same sort of thing exists in the real world. Wander into your local Wal-Mart and start screaming in the aisles about how much better Target is than Wal-Mart and how K-Mart's blue light specials were the greatest. You have the freedom to express yourself; however, they have the freedom to escort you to the door and let you do your ranting outside somewhere.

The article roguerouge quotes mentions that the rules aren't clear. How much clearer can 'don't run around screaming and waving your hands and acting like a maniac' be? I would daresay that the vast majority of gamers that frequent these boards (and other boards and places) know how to behave themselves, how to hold a discussion without turning it into a name-calling session, how to talk about the game without having a screaming fit. It isn't a matter of rights. It is a matter of self-control.


Callous Jack wrote:
What's a Hero system?

It is a dumbed down version of Bella Sera.


knightnday wrote:
The sad part is, most of the people calling for so-called 'freedom of speech' are pretty much asking to do whatever they want in the open areas: curse, name-call, etc. When they are asked to moderate their tone and words, they break out the ol' Freedom of Speech and grab a soap box, determined to prove to everyone how their rights are being infringed on.

I disagree. I am not agreeing with the OP, however, I happen to enjoy having the freedom to speak my mind. I understand that I have no ‘right’ to do so on Paizo’s board. However, I do not have to like having such a privilege being restricted.

Liberty's Edge

I'm all for freedom of speech. Thing is, the whole "champion of freedom of speech" farce is just one more little jagged snipe of passive aggression.
I *yawn* it away.


You say that like ‘passive agression’ is a bad thing.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

CourtFool wrote:
Callous Jack wrote:
What's a Hero system?
It is a dumbed down version of Bella Sera.

You sir, are hilarious.

Liberty's Edge

Not really bad, just insulting to people who have actually had their rights taken away from them.


Heathansson wrote:
Not really bad, just insulting to people who have actually had their rights taken away from them.

Fair enough.

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