I'm intrigued and excited by Paizo's continued evolution of the 3E ruleset with the Pathfinder RPG, as opposed to the revolution in rules represented by 4E. After reviewing the Alpha, I thought I'd post my own suggestions.
1. Point Based Ability Scores and Fixed Hit Points: These should be the default character generation methods, with random ability generation and hit points as options for gamers who prefer this method. Why? For one, you can generate higher level PCs and NPCs faster. Second, it enhances portability of characters between campaigns by establishing a standard - which is why point based ability scores and fixed hit points are used in RPGA's Living Campaigns. Third, I've seen too many 'Randomness is fine - just reroll 1s, 2s, etc' comments - if 1s and 2s aren't acceptable, then the method itself is flawed. Again, lets not eliminate the option of randomness for those that prefer this method, but the inherent balancing and fairness of the fixed system should make it the default method.
2. Multiclassing: I already like what Pathfinder does with Favored Classes. Lets go further. The Unearthed Arcana rules are OGL and have a lot of great ideas for multiclassing - incorporate what works. Magic Rating for non-spell casting characters makes multiclass spellcasting a more attractive option. Fractional BABs and Saves also eliminate the multiclass penalty. Multiclass Feats in the theme of those that the Complete books introduced - that allow certain class levels to stack for specific features (such as Ascetic Hunter) can also enhance the multiclass experience.
3. Arcane Spell Failure: Time to go, completely. ASF is a clumsy mechanic - nothing else in the game relies on percentile rolls in combat. I recommend disallowing arcane casting in armor for anyone who does not have the requisite class feature or feat. Instead of reducing the arcane spell failure chance, the Arcane Armor feats should permit spellcasters to use a class of armor - i.e., Arcane Armor Training (Light) would permit casting in all Light Armor, Arcane Armor Training (Medium) would permit casting in all Medium Armor, etc. Use level and feat prerequisites to ensure these feats are balanced.
4. Saves as Defenses: Saves as Defenses isn't a 4E innovation - this has been around since Unearthed Arcana. I prefer that player spell casters make the roll to see if their spell works, as opposed to the DM making a roll to see if it doesn't. Putting the dice in the hands of the players is almost always a good change. This also speeds up combat - instead of the six Goblins in the Wizard's Fireball burst radius each rolling a save, the Wizard makes one roll, which is compared to each Goblin's Reflex Defense.
5. Class features: Love the Rogue Talents. I'd like to see some of the Shadowdancer prestige class features appear as Rogue Talents. If Rogues are masters of stealth, then Hide in Plain Sight should be a class option. A talent that grants Darkvision should be another.
6. Spells for Rangers, Paladins: I've always liked the Holy Sword spell for Paladins - a great pinnacle spell for the class. Rangers and any other 4 level spell caster need their own pinnacle spell, such as Bane Bow from the Complete Warrior. If Rangers are to remain spell casters, give them worthwhile spells!
Welcome your thoughts, and thanks to Paizo for giving us the opportunity to voice our suggestions!
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I'm intrigued and excited by Paizo's continued evolution of the 3E ruleset with the Pathfinder RPG, as opposed to the revolution in rules represented by 4E. After reviewing the Alpha, I thought I'd post my own suggestions.
1. Point Based Ability Scores and Fixed Hit Points: These I agree with. Buy Ability Scores for portability, and we use a modified HP system, which I really like. For d4 hp use 1+1d3, for d6 use 2+d4, d8 use 3+d5, d10 use 4+d6. Thi system gives you at least half the max, so you always have at least decent HP. I also advocate using CON instead of -10. You hit 0 HP, no prob. But -1 is direct to your CON and you are Fatigued, -1/2 CON Knocks you unconscious with a failed FORT Save (DC=10+Damage taken that knocked you down). When CON hits 0 you are dead.
2. Multiclassing: Like all this
3. Arcane Spell Failure: you roll % to stabalize... only one I can think of. I do prefer to allow cloth armor. No inherent AC bonus but can be enchanted for magical bonuses and effects.
4. Saves as Defenses:Loved this idea too. makes the PCs feel more in control and takes a big burden off the GM
5. Class features: Love the Rogue Talents. Love to see Fighter Talents!
6. Spells for Rangers, Paladins: I'd like to see the Ranger ditch spells all together and use Ranger Talents for special abilities.
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I'm intrigued and excited by Paizo's continued evolution of the 3E ruleset with the Pathfinder RPG, as opposed to the revolution in rules represented by 4E. After reviewing the Alpha, I thought I'd post my own suggestions.
While there is nothing intrinsically wrong with any of your suggestions, I have a few concerns/comments...
1. Point Based Ability Scores and Fixed Hit Points: These should be the default character generation methods, with random ability generation and hit points as options for gamers who prefer this method. Why? For one, you can generate higher level PCs and NPCs faster. Second, it enhances portability of characters between campaigns by establishing a standard - which is why point based ability scores and fixed hit points are used in RPGA's Living Campaigns. Third, I've seen too many 'Randomness is fine - just reroll 1s, 2s, etc' comments - if 1s and 2s aren't acceptable, then the method itself is flawed. Again, lets not eliminate the option of randomness for those that prefer this method, but the inherent balancing and fairness of the fixed system should make it the default method.
I don't think any system needs to be made a "default". It would be more appropriate to preset all options and allow DMs to pick their choice of a standard. Frankly, many of us don't particularly like point-buy systems and would hate to see them presented as the "main" way to roll up scores. I don't want to see them go though, because as you've pointed out, they do enhance portability and quicken things a bit for campaigns of certain types and NPC generation. With that though, one of the things that bugs the living crap out of me is the "standard" set of ability scores that always seem to come out of a point-buy system, and they allow for far too much optimization and min/maxing. I feel the "ease of use", and "portability" only are really of concern for very specific campaign types, and that the random system is far more useful for most general campaigns. Characters should feel different, which is why I think delgating the random system to second fiddle is unfair; however, I do think they can exist on equal ground and probably should be presented as one of many "standard" methods of character generation. Finally, having people reroll 1's and 2's doesn't make a method flawed. I developed my own random system which was based on a lot of fiddling with the statistics on my end (such that they're skewed right) which in essence provide the same exact system as "reroll 1's and 2's" but streamline it all into a single roll.
2. Multiclassing: I already like what Pathfinder does with Favored Classes. Lets go further. The Unearthed Arcana rules are OGL and have a lot of great ideas for multiclassing - incorporate what works. Magic Rating for non-spell casting characters makes multiclass spellcasting a more attractive option. Fractional BABs and Saves also eliminate the multiclass penalty. Multiclass Feats in the theme of those that the Complete books introduced - that allow certain class levels to stack for specific features (such as Ascetic Hunter) can also enhance the multiclass experience.
I'm not a huge fan of the Unearthed Arcana rules for things like fractional BABs and Saves, but this is more of a personal preference thing. I also like the fact that multiclassing tones down casters (which I find funny, because I see tons of complaints about single-class spellcasters "breaking" the high level game, yet everybody complains that multi-classing a spellcaster makes them weaker). I feel that multiclassing is powerful in itself and should be left as-is. The use of feats to augment this are perfectly acceptable (as they take additional character resources to gain a benefit) and would be all for seeing more feats which allow for more streamlined multi-classing (practiced spellcaster for instance).
3. Arcane Spell Failure: Time to go, completely. ASF is a clumsy mechanic - nothing else in the game relies on percentile rolls in combat. I recommend disallowing arcane casting in armor for anyone who does not have the requisite class feature or feat. Instead of reducing the arcane spell failure chance, the Arcane Armor feats should permit spellcasters to use a class of armor - i.e., Arcane Armor Training (Light) would permit casting in all Light Armor, Arcane Armor Training (Medium) would permit casting in all Medium Armor, etc. Use level and feat prerequisites to ensure these feats are balanced.
I disagree with your alternative, but I agree that the mechanic is clumsy. What would actually be a better way to present it is to provide the percentages in simple d20 version. A 5% failure rate is a 1, a 15% failure rate is a 1-3. If you roll a d20 with your spellcasting and compare the number, it's pretty easy to see if your spell has failed. Instead of thinking in percents though (which admittedly a little clumsy) and replace them with the common d20, it becomes just another factor of spellcasting.
4. Saves as Defenses: Saves as Defenses isn't a 4E innovation - this has been around since Unearthed Arcana. I prefer that player spell casters make the roll to see if their spell works, as opposed to the DM making a roll to see if it doesn't. Putting the dice in the hands of the players is almost always a good change. This also speeds up combat - instead of the six Goblins in the Wizard's Fireball burst radius each rolling a save, the Wizard makes one roll, which is compared to each Goblin's Reflex Defense.
Please no. Oh good god please no. I as a player disliked, hated, and absolutely loathed this mechanic when playing 4E. It may speed things up, but it felt absolutely terrible when you just "got hit" with spells that did full damage, no saves. There's something psychological about getting to roll your own defenses when 80 points of damage are being hurled your direction that's completely lost with this system.
5. Class features: Love the Rogue Talents. I'd like to see some of the Shadowdancer prestige class features appear as Rogue Talents. If Rogues are masters of stealth, then Hide in Plain Sight should be a class option. A talent that grants Darkvision should be another.
Rogues are not a master of stealth, rogues are the masters of skills (which by default allows them to be masters of stealth). Also I've never been a fan of non-racial or magically created darkvision abilities. Rogues should not be gaining spell-like abilities (which shadowdancers get because they're magically manipulating shadows). I just can't agree with this request (to a degree, there could be perfectly good Shadowdancer abilities that aren't spell-like).
6. Spells for Rangers, Paladins: I've always liked the Holy Sword spell for Paladins - a great pinnacle spell for the class. Rangers and any other 4 level spell caster need their own pinnacle spell, such as Bane Bow from the Complete Warrior. If Rangers are to remain spell casters, give them worthwhile spells!
That would be a cool idea. I don't know if they need anything more than the 4th level "master" spell, but you're right, they deserve something similar, but class appropriate, to the paladins.
Appreciate the feedback from everyone.
I think multiclassing is one of the great strengths of 3E (and one that was completely discarded by 4E). The 3E multiclassing system fixed many of the broken aspects of 2E, but at the expense of several classic character archetypes, in particular the fighter/magic-user (sometimes called the "gish"). I think there is a happy medium though for those who want to mix magic and melee classes - and whether using clever feats to optimize these class combinations or using the fractional or magic rating methods from UA - I'd like to see something more for multiclassers incorporated into the ruleset.
Everyone seems in agreement that ASF is a clumsy system. I'm glad to see the Arcane Armor Training Feat to deal with the restriction that ASF places on the multiclass spellcaster, but I still think the underlying mechanic is poor. I'm open to other suggestions, but perpetuating the current ASF method is not something I'm in favor of.
As for Saves as Defenses, I still think putting the dice in the hands of the player is the right way to go. Almost every other class attack in the game involves the player trying to roll high, but many spells require the DM to roll low to succeed. Just not as fun and it adds math. Nevertheless, I concede the point that it is hard for players to surrender their own saving rolls to the DM. Still, in this case, I think the simplified book keeping of Saves as Defenses carries the day. Perhaps the best method is one where players roll attacks against NPC defenses, yet NPC attacks force player saving throws. But that's even more complex, and a compromise that would probably leave everyone unsatisfied.
As for Rogues, I find their role as the master of stealth being encroached by the Ranger, who has gained Concealment and Hide in Plain Sight since the original 3E class was introduced. Hide in Plain Sight for Rangers is especially odd to me, considering that this ability was first introduced for the Shadowdancer Prestige Class in 3E and later in 3.5 the Assassin received this ability. These prestige classes were clearly Rogue oriented, yet the Ranger now incorporates this ability into the base class. I'm fine with that, as Rangers have always incorporated stealth into their skillset, but I think the Rogue should have this ability in its talent tree. As for Darkvision, I see that the Alpha ruleset is already allowing Rogues to gain 1st level spell-like abilities, so Darkvision for an Advanced Talent seems balanced. However, I'm far less attached to Darkvision than I am to Hide in Plain Sight. If Rangers get it, Rogues should also have the option.
As an old 1E player, I still remember Rangers casting a handful of magic user spells. It seems every iteration since 1E has further marginalized the Ranger's spell casting ability. In 3E, someone clearly spent more time on the Paladin, as their spell list included great and unique Paladin specific spells like Bless Weapon and Holy Sword. I think Pathfinder has a chance to correct that oversight and give the Ranger their due.
My two cents - again, appreciate your comments.
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Well I agree for the most part. I would add that IF the Ranger has to cast spells, he should have a better list, but also would like to see the Sorcerer have its own unique spell list.
I don't agree that the Rogue is a master of Stealth, but do agree that it is the master of Skills. The way an individual player chooses skills will determine if he is master of Stealth. It is just as likely that the Rogue is a master of SOcial interaction instead of stealth, or that master duelist, or the master anything.
