Hi Forum folks.
I just stumbled over the reworked Divine Power spell (Cleric 4), which gioves you an CL/3 Luck bonus to Attack and damage.
(And an extra Attack if doing a full attack afaik).
The good old Divine Favor does the same (except the extra attack) with a fixed +3 luck Bonus.
So why on Earth (or whatever world we live on) should I use the divine power spell, if I can get a better result with a 1st level divine Favor ? (Based on a CL 7 cleric. If you are Lvl 12, you get better results, but this I expect from a 4th level spell...)
Why has the divine Power changed ?
In addition Divine Power bonus is a luck bonus and so it does not stack with Prayer/Recitation.
My suggestion is to make the Divine Power an Insight bonus
(There are only a very limited number of spells, which gives you an insight bonus on Attack and Damage).
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So why on Earth (or whatever world we live on) should I use the divine power spell, if I can get a better result with a 1st level divine Favor ? (Based on a CL 7 cleric.
Divine Favor gives a +1 luck bonus per 3 caster levels to attack and damage, max +3.
Divine Power gives a +1 luck bonus per 3 caster levels to attack, damage, Str checks, and Str-based skill checks, all maxing out at +6, 1 temporary hp per caster level, and one extra attack at your max BAB with a full attack action (which does not stack with Haste or Speed weapons)
The bonus progression continues out to a +6, +1 hp per caster level, an extra attack at max BAB with a full attack, and the bonus also applies to Str checks and Str-based skill checks. Maybe not worth being 3 spell levels higher, but certainly a better spell, and one that makes sense for a cleric to have prepped.
Edit: Long story short, it's part of the nerf "a cleric with enough prep time is a better XXX than an actual XXX, where XXX is just about any class you care to mention" strategy in Pathfinder. Clerics should be competent at anything with prep time, not the absolute best. Divine Power as written in 3e makes them the equal of a fighter, but for the lack of feats.
Personally I would cap this spell at max 5 because the old Divine Might by lvl 20 gave only a +5 bonus to attack (or raised the BAB from 15 to 20). So having +6 at lvl 18 is too much and makes this spell even stronger at that level.
Not to mention old Divine Power only game +3 damage that did not stack with Str items. Now you can have a +6 Str Bracer and get an additional +6 to damage on top of that.
Only real nerf is the extra attack that does not stack with Haste but again before the extra attack you would get would be the last one (the one that has the lowest chance to hit anything) while now it is the strongest one.
Not sure if Divine Power really got nerfed...
Personally I would cap this spell at max 5 because the old Divine Might by lvl 20 gave only a +5 bonus to attack (or raised the BAB from 15 to 20). So having +6 at lvl 18 is too much and makes this spell even stronger at that level.
Not to mention old Divine Power only game +3 damage that did not stack with Str items. Now you can have a +6 Str Bracer and get an additional +6 to damage on top of that.
Only real nerf is the extra attack that does not stack with Haste but again before the extra attack you would get would be the last one (the one that has the lowest chance to hit anything) while now it is the strongest one.
Not sure if Divine Power really got nerfed...
Basically that´s true. Doesn´t really seem like a nerf only a shift. The only real differece apllies to characters with levels in another class without full spell progression. As far as I remember the old version raised your BAB to your character-level and not just caster level( correct me if I am wrong).
Personally I would cap this spell at max 5 because the old Divine Might by lvl 20 gave only a +5 bonus to attack (or raised the BAB from 15 to 20). So having +6 at lvl 18 is too much and makes this spell even stronger at that level.
Yes, but the old Divine Power was essentially a typeless bonus that stacked with everything. Also, if you took some prestige class that hurt your attack bonus (like Loremaster, say), then Divine Power could add even more than +5 to your attack.
As Kvantum correctly pointed out, Divine Favor also gives you CL/3 luck bonus to attack and bonus. My Bad.
Divine Power gives you the same bonus as Divine Favor, only the cap is removed (or set to 6, I don't know).
The Bonus to Strength checks and Skills is a nice treat but not a real incentive. That extra attack is one...
On the other hand Divine Favor is a first level spell with the same bonus, only capped at 3.
The bad thing is that cou can't combine it. In 3.5 you could.
In the low and mid levels, where I have to learn the 4th level spells with care, my normal pics would be Deathward and Freedom Of Movement.
With the bonuses Divine Favor gives me, I will consider Divine Power useless until CL 15. And when Divine Power gets rocking, Divine Favor is useless...
BTW: afaik both spells are personal.
If one of the two is not personal but touch range, a Cleric would mind learning both spells as he can give his Fighter-buddy an additional boost... but then Prayer /Recitation becomes useless as they also bestow luck bonus.
So my impression is that they shifted the Divine power effects and unintentionally nerfed it.
My suggestion: Change the type of bonus Divine Favor/Power gives or (if this is too good) make one of the two spells a touch one.
I prefer Divine Favor as this does not make the spell absolutly usless in higher levels.
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Benefits of a 20th level Cleric casting the 3.5 Divine Power: net +5 to BAB and a further net +3 to melee attack and damage (from the Str bonus), or +8 to attack and +3 to damage while in melee, and +20 temporary hp.
Pathfinder Divine Power:+6 luck bonus to attack and damage, +1 attack with a full attack action, and +20 temporary hp.
Basically it trades some of the attack bonus for a damage bonus, but limits by making the bonuses Luck-type, however this spell does stack with enhancement bonuses to Strength... it just doesn't provide one directly.
In some ways, the Pathfinder version might actually be slightly more powerful, not less, at least for clerics who cast their buff spells in combat, and not beforehand. It won't stack with Divine Favor, but it will stack with a Belt of Giant Strength.
Edit: One more thing I just noticed that may invalidate my conclusion: the BAB increase of 3.5 gives the effective extra attack of Pf's version, but 3.5 would also stack with Haste, so that's one more thing to take into account.
So my impression is that they shifted the Divine power effects and unintentionally nerfed it.
No, I'm pretty sure they intentionally nerfed it. The idea was that one 4th level spell would turn a cleric into "just as good" a melee combatant as a fighter (with full cleric casting, to boot). Compare that to Tenser's Transformation, which is a higher level spell that forbids casting while it's in effect. (Of course, Tenser's Transformation is a terrible spell, but that's neither here nor there.)
Don't forget, the BAB difference that 3.5 Divine Power added could provide extra attacks. The BAB increase was actually the strongest aspect of it.
Pathfinder Divine Power doesn't do that.
-Matt
Hmmm, I like Pathfinders Divine Power. I just don't think it's good enough to qualify as a 4th level spell. If it stays this way through the Beta I'll house rule it to either A. Be a touch spell so the cleric can give his buddies a boost or B. Dumb it down to 3rd level and keep it as is. The 3.5 one was simply superior and in my opinion not over powered.
For example. Sure a cleric with even two rounds of prep time can over come the fighter in attack an damage bonus, especially if they're built for such. But it's only for 1 round a level. Not to mention, there are many encounters where a Cleric won't have a chance to buff and might only want to spare one round casting such a spell before joining in the melee. I know in the games I run 2/5's of the encounters... maybe... give the players any prep time, the rest are them being attacked or a battle happening right then. That and I would laugh at any cleric who memorized more than 2 of those precious 4th level spells. More than 3 if they have an exceptional wisdom.
Honestly I think 3.5 version is fine but if they keep it I think they should at least either lessen it a level or give it the target of 'ally' and the range of 'touch'. Especially compared to some of the increased powers wizards already get. It seems cleric spells have been toned down while wizard spells have been given a bit of a boost (on average) not sure how that balances out.