...by putting the smaller stores out of business, and then deciding which video games are "fit" to sell in a small town, for example, they create a system of de facto censorship.
Well I guess it is lucky that we live in the internet age then, so people can just go online find what they want when their local store does not have it for one reason or another (chooses not to carry it or merely does not have it in stock).
I feel that if free speech is valid, Ice-T's crap would flop on its own because not enough people would be stupid enough to buy it (which I suspect is pretty much what happened; I don't see him featured in too many stores anymore).
And I am sure that is exactly the reasoning the execs took initially. "We just put it out there, it is the people that are buying it."
There's no need to demand that the record company stop producing his albums because one disagrees with his viewpoint; ...
Unless of course if one is a stock holder, then one has every right to speak up for the image that the company execs are choosing to put forth. I mean, I guess if all you care about is money could just keep your mouth shut and just worry about selling off your shares before the stock tanks, but some folk actually give a damn about what the companies they invest in actually do. Yeah, I know, locos.
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I mean, I guess if all you care about is money could just keep your mouth shut and just worry about selling off your shares before the stock tanks, but some folk actually give a damn about what the companies they invest in actually do. Yeah, I know, locos.
And those kind of people don't have to shop at Wal-Mart, after finding out that the unpaid labor they use in the Marianas (and then stamp 'Made in the USA!' because we consider them a territory) are forced to get abortions if they get pregnant, because their 'bosses' don't like how being pregnant cuts into their productivity. Tom Delay, after going there and seeing the working conditions of the slaves there, said it was a free market paradise, the sort of thing that he wished America could be, if we ever got rid of those darned unions.
But, given the size and worth of Wal-Mart, obviously people who do 'give a damn what the companies they invest in actually do' are few and far between. Kudos to you if you're one of them, btw. People who stand by their convictions are very cool.
But refusing to buy music from Virgin / Sire because Madonna once told the Pope that if he wanted to see her, he could buy a ticket like anyone else? Seems a little extreme. I don't buy music (or watch TV, or choose movies, or play role-playing games, or read books) based on the artists lifestyles or political views. Indeed, I'd probably have to just walk away with gritted teeth if I ever got into a political debate with some of my favorite actors / writers / etc. I'll even watch the occasional Tom Hanks movie, despite his fanning the anti-D&D flames back in the day, or pop in War of the Worlds or the Last Samurai, regardless of the fact that Tom Cruise is batshiat insane.
But please think about whether you are actually using comedy as a weapon to silence viewpoints you disagree with and chill future legitimate expression. Because that's not fine.
On the 'net, we don't all meet and discuss it beforehand; people just post.
Unless, of course, you start a thread to ask people to think about netiquette beforehand...
They're both right, of course, but it's a matter of where you draw the line. (In Europe, they draw that line pretty far from where we do in the U.S.)
Actually, the difference here is that I'm not asking for there to be legal enforcement (e.g. moderators intervening), which makes it different from your examples of the US or EU take on hate speech.
I am not at all sure that (at least in this case) the threadjacking was a problem. From what I've seen, people have cracked jokes in many of these threads as a way to relieve the tension, defuse the situation, or in place of calling the poster a dirty so and so.
Did the OP in the mentioned post have a good point? To some extent, yes. However, here and elsewhere there have been a torrent of "I'm taking my ball and going home because .." posts, and I think people are getting slaphappy from it all.
If the poster was actually concerned about the issue of printing and where it is taking place at, there are more successful ways of bringing it to Paizo's attention and indicating why they think it is wrong. A bullet point in a "I am leaving" post would tend to get overlooked, I think.
It isn't a matter of free speech, or hate speech, or whatever. I think it is more a matter of the collective posters growing weary of the seeming never-ending litany of "I am leaving, but wait, let me argue for a while and tell you why your game and company suck first, now I am leaving for real" posts and are trying to head it off, or at least keep the mood light.
Unless, of course, you start a thread to ask people to think about netiquette beforehand...
Yes, you did indeed! And it sparked a lively discussion, with only one or two minor comic threadjacks of its own...
I am not at all sure that (at least in this case) the threadjacking was a problem. From what I've seen, people have cracked jokes in many of these threads as a way to relieve the tension, defuse the situation, or in place of calling the poster a dirty so and so.
Please see the second thread that I posted, in which there's the same conflict=avoidance and same thread-jacking on a perfectly legitimate OP.
It isn't a matter of free speech, or hate speech, or whatever. I think it is more a matter of the collective posters growing weary of the seeming never-ending litany of "I am leaving, but wait, let me argue for a while and tell you why your game and company suck first, now I am leaving for real" posts and are trying to head it off, or at least keep the mood light.
I wonder how many of those same "tired" people would be applauding the same thing if it was done on the Gleemax/WotC boards and was talking about not playing 4e. Just curious how much is actually dislike for that type of post and how much is out of a sense of loyalty.
Unless of course if one is a stock holder, then one has every right to speak up for the image that the company execs are choosing to put forth.
I think so, too. But Heston argued against Wal-Mart "caving in" to stockholders who felt that way about its gun sales... so by the same token, the record company execs should have ignored Heston's concerns as well.
Let me make it clear that I can like and even somewhat admire the guy, but still be aware that he sometimes applied different standards to others, vs. to himself. I'm not saying at all that he was a bad person; only that he was like almost everyone else in some things.
It isn't a matter of free speech, or hate speech, or whatever. I think it is more a matter of the collective posters growing weary of the seeming never-ending litany of "I am leaving, but wait, let me argue for a while and tell you why your game and company suck first, now I am leaving for real" posts and are trying to head it off, or at least keep the mood light.I wonder how many of those same "tired" people would be applauding the same thing if it was done on the Gleemax/WotC boards and was talking about not playing 4e. Just curious how much is actually dislike for that type of post and how much is out of a sense of loyalty.
From what I've seen of that board, there is less comedic posts and more screaming and cursing withg regard to the "I'm leaving" posts. Speaking for myself, it is more being weary with the posts rather than loyalty. I like Pathfinder, and I've liked WOTC products in the past. That aside, if you are leaving, go. I'll wave and continue on. I can honestly say that someone's post about leaving forever because Paizo prints with puppy blood or WOTC beat up their favorite class doesn't affect my buying habits.
Honestly the jesting posts tend, for me at least, to break up the fighting and arguing a bit and offer a nice change from the lengthy arguments that sound like something from a college ethics/economy/goverment/history class. There are a lot of armchair experts that tend to crop up on RPG boards (among other places) and that tends to make my eyes glaze over about the fifth iteration of "I am right! No, no, *I* am right!" That doesn't make the threadcrapping right, but it does at least make it a little more interesting, at least for this reader.
