In a thread about an issue rather important to the company (a customer deciding to leave) and which included a serious discussion (whether or not WotC and Paizo's outsourcing of labor to China should influence our buying decisions), we ended up with seven pages of posts, the vast majority of which were about some sort of wierd ongoing jokes about potatoes and donkeys. So we're not even talking about garden-variety "I hate you! I hate you! I hate you!" ad hominem attacks here.
In short, this behavior completely obscured any positive result that might have come about from the OP's rather petulant post.
Now, on some boards, this kind of thread jacking--comic or otherwise--would be considered incredibly juvenile and rude. It would be considered graffiti by moderators and members.
On other boards, this kind of thread jacking is par for the course and to be expected. It would be considered good old fashioned razzing.
What I want to know is: Is comic threadjacking considered to be rude here? Should it be?
And why is the Off-topic Discussions forum not used for this kind of thing?
You really think that poster was going to check back or that he would have been swayed? I think the forums would be extremely boring if we had to stay perfectly on topic. Of course, I am one of the worst offenders, so my opinion is biased.
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I'd like to agree that comic threadjacking (good name by the way) has been a problem here on the boards and continues to be. While many of those participating have good intentions, decorum requires a post to be topical. Adding something 'funny' that is not related to the original post should be considered rude.
However, I like that Paizo is self-regulating. This is a problem associated with it, since it can be so very hard to take the high road and refrain from posting.
So, I'm with the OP. Paizo has a 'guidelines' for what is considered acceptable behavior, but this is not addressed.
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Well that particular thread was one of several which were pretty pointless if the guy was serious about trying to influence Paizo's management. Starting off the thread saying "I'm Out of here... blah blah..." is sort of being a drama queen and invites trolling.
If you are seriously concerned about it then you can start another thread about that. What kind of a premium would you pay for an American printed Paizo product? What sort of premium would you be willing to pay for a product printed in the USA?
Another possibility is you could just buy the PDFs and print them yourself. That way you are paying purely for the American IP and not for the Chinese printing. You could then print it at your local Kinkos.
In a thread about an issue rather important to the company (a customer deciding to leave) and which included a serious discussion (whether or not WotC and Paizo's outsourcing of labor to China should influence our buying decisions), we ended up with seven pages of posts, the vast majority of which were about some sort of wierd ongoing jokes about potatoes and donkeys. So we're not even talking about garden-variety "I hate you! I hate you! I hate you!" ad hominem attacks here.
If you don't like running gags about potatoes and donkeys, then I don't think there's anything I can say that will sell you on Pathfinder.
Director of Game Development
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I recognize that I am a chronic comic threadjack offender. The frequency of that particular type of post is actually why I decided to make this place my gaming community years ago. I would much rather see levity than people acting rude. I'm sorry if I've ever pissed anyone off with any of my posts. I totally didn't realize that this was an issue. I could always just be a dick.
You want Heathy to stay on topic?! That would ruin his whole schtick. And change the whole tenor of the boards. Count me in as a fan of comic threadjacks. Especially because they tend to occur only when things are getting heated and flame-y.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I think that it's fine, as long as the 'comic' part isn't comic in a way that's offensive or otherwise breaking the general board rules. I look at it this way - if you're having a conversation with someone, it's fine for them to crack a joke, so the same should be fine on the boards.
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You want Heathy to stay on topic?! That would ruin his whole schtick. And change the whole tenor of the boards. Count me in as a fan of comic threadjacks. Especially because they tend to occur only when things are getting heated and flame-y.
Ironically enough, checking all my posts on the thread in question, I posted all serious posts about the subject at hand.
Ironically enough, checking all my posts on the thread in question, I posted all serious posts about the subject at hand.
Yeah, I'm the MF threadjacker here, 'cause I don't think I even know what started all this... I just believe in cutting people some slack, when they try to lighten things up a bit.
P.S. What, are you like instantly summoned whenever your name is mentioned? That was impressive as hell!
Make them stop!
Make them stop!
Beat, beat.
Ooh, I'm a drummer.
I have no issues with the wacky posts on the boards. It's part of the personality of the community.
I also have no issues with people who don't like the wacky posts. But I won't apologize for it.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Comic threadjacking is what makes this place awesome. What irritates me is when the regulars have derailed a flametastic troll thread into a hilarious tangent and some Very Serious Poster with a Very Important Opinion has to show up and get the bonfire going again. If an angry thread has turned funny, just accept the fact that you missed your chance to post your Very Important Opinion and move on.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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I think that it's fine, as long as the 'comic' part isn't comic in a way that's offensive or otherwise breaking the general board rules. I look at it this way - if you're having a conversation with someone, it's fine for them to crack a joke, so the same should be fine on the boards.
Yeah, but if you're having a conversation about politics with someone IRL and they start talking about pigs in hot air balloons, it could get annoying. That said, I am a fan of comic threadjacking because it typically occurs after I'm done with any given thread anyway. It keeps me coming back to threads I would otherwise ignore because I got sick of the bantering. And based on the Paizo staff's participation and even instigation of such at times, I don't think they frown upon it too much. (Though now that Mike's gone, it might decrease a little bit--That guy showed up and it was instantly a thread about Japanese schoolgirls or gnome gninjas. ^.^)
[edit: HA! Sebastian's a horsie. I'll never get over that!]
(whether or not WotC and Paizo's outsourcing of labor to China should influence our buying decisions)
What's odd is that the guy's post really bothered me. The comment about China was so biased and inflammatory that I just let it drop. I live and work in China and have objected to such remarks in the past, but I just don't care anymore. It's not my job to correct everyone's ignorance....
I mean hey! I can only correct a few people's ignorance.
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You really think that poster was going to check back or that he would have been swayed? I think the forums would be extremely boring if we had to stay perfectly on topic. Of course, I am one of the worst offenders, so my opinion is biased.
I feel the same way, I'm not sure why it's a big deal.
EDIT: What's up with My Little Pony Sebastian?
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Director of Brand Strategy
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(whether or not WotC and Paizo's outsourcing of labor to China should influence our buying decisions)What's odd is that the guy's post really bothered me. The comment about China was so biased and inflammatory that I just let it drop. I live and work in China and have objected to such remarks in the past, but I just don't care anymore. It's not my job to correct everyone's ignorance....
I mean hey! I can only correct a few people's ignorance.
But Kruelaid, there's REDS there. And you have no objection because they brainwash you through their media. You probably won't even be able to see this post. It'll be redacted to hell! Anyone criticizing China knows their stuff cause they learnt it on FOXNews!
Bit Kruelaid, the Chinese race is superior. And you have seen the beauty of the pinacle of world civiliaztion and live in harmonay and balince. You are broad minded and wise. Anyone criticizing China is a capitalist running dog cause they learnt it on FOXNews!
Totally, man.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I think that it's fine, as long as the 'comic' part isn't comic in a way that's offensive or otherwise breaking the general board rules. I look at it this way - if you're having a conversation with someone, it's fine for them to crack a joke, so the same should be fine on the boards.Yeah, but if you're having a conversation about politics with someone IRL and they start talking about pigs in hot air balloons, it could get annoying.
Oddly, in a serious conversation about politics, I wouldn't consider pigs in a hot air balloon off topic!
(whether or not WotC and Paizo's outsourcing of labor to China should influence our buying decisions)
I actually posted serious and angry on this one and it didn't feel good. I'll stay with donkeys , hijacked avatars, llamas and whatever. I need my fun.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Comic threadjacking is what makes this place awesome. What irritates me is when the regulars have derailed a flametastic troll thread into a hilarious tangent and some Very Serious Poster with a Very Important Opinion has to show up and get the bonfire going again. If an angry thread has turned funny, just accept the fact that you missed your chance to post your Very Important Opinion and move on.
I am generally one of the comic threadjackers, so I don't see it as a problem. Of course I do post serious posts, I'm not purely a comic threadjacker, but levity is a great form of breaking up a particularly heated discussion (plus some posts just beg for a comic threadjacking).
As an aside: WTF is up with Sebastian's Avatar and Charter Superscriber Tag??? I love it, but did I miss something?
Plus I haven't seen KC's Smurfy Avatar around lately... did it piss him off a bit too much?
I'll own up to comic thread jacking now in then, or at least giving support to other comic thread jackers.
I don't do it in every thread, there are certain threads that seem to cry out for it. I did post in the thread in question as "The Trolls" primarily in response to Sir Urza's "Don't feed the Trolls" post. The comic stuff needs to appear in certain threads because, let's be honest, sometimes we turn into a bunch of a$~%&+!s. A reminder that this is game that we can all enjoy and discuss without turning into Sebast--- uhh... a jerk needs to appear now and then.
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Ironically enough, checking all my posts on the thread in question, I posted all serious posts about the subject at hand.Yeah, I'm the MF threadjacker here, 'cause I don't think I even know what started all this... I just believe in cutting people some slack, when they try to lighten things up a bit.
P.S. What, are you like instantly summoned whenever your name is mentioned? That was impressive as hell!
Skillz!
Given the level of venom and how ridiculous (plaid even) and frequent these drama-queen/shill topics have become, I think a good dose of comic-thread-jacking is completely appropriate. In the majority of the cases I've seen (including the instance under discussion), these are being made by people who are seemingly brand-new board members.
In my workplace, we refer to such a person as a pigeon. They fly in from out of nowhere, crap all over the place, and then leave. i.e. This isn't an issue of a concerned customer raising valid issues in a constructive manner, it's intentional inflammatory trolling, plain and simple.
In my workplace, we refer to such a person as a pigeon. They fly in from out of nowhere, crap all over the place, and then leave.
That is an excellent addition to my vocabulary. Thank you.
Hehe, happy to be of assistance Kruelaid. :)
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So this poses a new question for Jason:
Can we get a new Threadjacking skill for Rogues in the Pathfinder Beta?
Even better, put in subtypes like Perform:
Threadjacking (comic)
Threadjacking (flame)
Threadjacking (McArtor)
Threadjacking (off-topic)
Threadjacking (smurf)
Threadjacking (troll)
Threadjacking (vomit)
I like chocolate milk!
In my workplace, we refer to such a person as a pigeon. They fly in from out of nowhere, crap all over the place, and then leave. i.e. This isn't an issue of a concerned customer raising valid issues in a constructive manner, it's intentional inflammatory trolling, plain and simple.
Hmm, let me see the poster of the thread under discussion. Joined the forum, poked around and posted on a few threads acting genuinely curious and generally asking reasonable questions and making reasonable comments. Including one critical of the GSL and Wizards. He has 8 posts total.
His final post he wishes everyone well and explains in fairly reasonable terms why he's made the decision he's made. While some of his points are opinion most of them are reasonable concerns that others have raised. His post was not emotionally charged and was politely worded.
That thread expands into over 200 posts maybe 1/4 of which have any remote connection to the original comment and many of which are little more than wasted bandwidth. That's not even counting the 3 other threads mocking the thread he posted. It's ironic that the very people who are trying to drown out these posts are actually bringing more attention to them by dragging the posts on and posting secondary and tertiary posts about them.
Tell me again, who's trolling?
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I agree with Cheese--chocolate milk is quite delicious.
Also, comic threadjacking can serve to lighten an atmosphere that is becoming decidedly dismal and actually move it back on course, but under more civil terms.
It can also serve to show the true perspective of any particular thread and effectively end one that is going nowhere anyway, or that is devolved beyond recoupment.
Make them stop!
What we're doing the dead horse / sacred cow thing now?
I wasn't ready.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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I recognize that I am a chronic comic threadjack offender. ... I could always just be a dick.
Recognizing you have a problem is the first step.
I recognize that I am ... a dick.
There fixed that for you. :-P
No, seriously, I get enough of people who take the world far too seriously at work. Games iz fer funnen.
I for one, completely agree with you. Anyone who jacks a thread on these forums should be ostracised and marginalised. I think the moderators are not doing a good enough job of scanning the boards looking for humour. They should act to eliminate it wherever it occurs. These boards are a very serious matter, meant to elucidate and educate. Their purpose is not to entertain, and we have all spent many years of our lives in training for this responsibility. Every topic should be dealt with in a somber, reflective and suitably respectful tone. Outbreaks of hilarity are definitely not welcome on these forums. This is not a game, people.
Checking one another's character builds, asking for or delivering D&D facts, and arguing rules certainly is fun, boy howdy... but I'd never come here if it wasn't for the comic asides.
I don't think it's rude to create or participate in these tangents. What, the OP's going to cry because six of his thirty posts veered off into a discussion about troll schlong? Such rigidity is the province of wooden indians. Um... by rigidity I mean the lack of tolerance for subject changing... er... yeah...
Comic interrupts are the very heart of good forum. That intangible that makes a site come alive with the spirit of community and become so much more than the sum of its parts.
I don't think it's rude to create or participate in these tangents. What, the OP's going to cry because six of his thirty posts veered off into a discussion about troll schlong?
The person who posted the thread had 8 posts ever on the forum and none of them were at all trollish or even vaguely appeared to be trolling. In the post under discussion he brought up 6 points which were fairly valid. I don't agree with several of the points but I don't agree with a lot of peoples posts.
Overall, the original post had more interesting commentary than 99% of the other posts on that thread. Please go back and re-read it. Check out the posters post history. If there was any trolling going on it was not from Carnivorous_Bean.
Honestly, I'd rather read the comic comments than another "I am leaving because dot dot dot" post, myself. If you are going to leave, leave. The rest of the comments are at least entertaining, and can often be educational.
Vic Wertz cited a discussion on the site a year ago.
We had this discussion a year ago elsewhere on the boards.
First off, I'll note that the "comic" posts as graffiti syndrome goes all the way back a year on a topic that features not a single troll.
Second, the number of "comic" posts as graffiti has increased over time. They now actively obscure productive insight.
Third, you'll note that they are not, by and large, funny.
Fourth, I'm amazed that people on that thread consider there to be a flame war going on.
Considering all of that, I think that one effect of the "comic" posts seems to be a desire to silence any legitimate disagreement or intellectual debate that people have on those threads. I belong to three other boards--EnWorld, Football Outsiders, and The Chronicle of Higher Education--and none of them feature much in the way of "comic post" graffiti. There are comic posts on each of them, and thread jacks occur, but the culture in each keeps the thread-jacking from a minimum and, when it doesn't, the site owners intervene to set off a space for such debates.
Frankly, these comic posts read as extreme conflict avoidance, the posting board equivalent of sticking one's fingers in one's ears and yelling, "la-la-la! I'm not LISTENing!" Is conflict in threads that you don't have to go to really that hard to bear?
And could you at least be funnier if you enjoy making these posts? I mean, it's great that you're amusing yourselves and all, but could you maybe consider what might be funny to an audience that isn't actively engaged in the jibing?
Also, why do these comic thread jacks rarely occur in the discussions of the gaming products, like DMs asking for help on the Adventure paths? Is it something about PfRPG that brings this out in people?
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Also, why do these comic thread jacks rarely occur in the discussions of the gaming products, like DMs asking for help on the Adventure paths? Is it something about PfRPG that brings this out in people?
People on these boards like discussions, there are lots of them.
But they don't like arguments (as with the depressing 4e boards a few months ago). So if an OP just seems like he wants to start an argument then the argument gets rinsed away in a bath of good-natured humour. I think that's a good thing.
If someone started a serious thread about where Paizo print, i'm sure we'd get a serious debate.
If you want to have that debate; start the thread.
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Also, why do these comic thread jacks rarely occur in the discussions of the gaming products, like DMs asking for help on the Adventure paths? Is it something about PfRPG that brings this out in people?People on these boards like discussions, there are lots of them.
But they don't like arguments (as with the depressing 4e boards a few months ago). So if an OP just seems like he wants to start an argument then the argument gets rinsed away in a bath of good-natured humour. I think that's a good thing.
If someone started a serious thread about where Paizo print, i'm sure we'd get a serious debate.
If you want to have that debate; start the thread.
Exactly!
You'll notice that the threads asking a technical question, almost to a T, result in pure, serious responses.
Threads that begin with invective or are inherently inflammatory result in quid pro quo flaming, and quickly devolve to threadjacking.
I think that it goes to show a democratic consensus amongst the more permanent Paizo community (from which most of the comic threadkacking occurs), as so ably said by GeraintElberion.
I have to confess to 'comic thread-jacking' from time to time. I agree that a lot of the time it's insulting to the OP, but only when there's any chance of the OP actually sticking around to see any responses.
Ask a question and you will get serious answers - I've seen it happen, in fact it's happening now. Just post something intended to start an argument and you'll get levity - which I have to say is a refreshing change from a lot of other boards I've been on.
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We even have threads here at Paizo specifically for venting your frustrations, like the Top 10 Pet Peeves thread, or the Rants thread--even those are speckled and peppered with levity and very necessary comic relief from the community regulars.
I've posted my midlife angst before, honestly if not legitimately angry, and then Heathansson or yoda8myhead, et al, comes along and injects their sly non sequiturs, effectively forcing me to laugh, bringing me back down to the mortal plane, and then I move on with more important considerations.
I say, long live the threadjacking!