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hey all, i tried to use the search for this topic but all i get is pdfs and books for sale , dont know why i can search boards for topics but anyways sorry if this as been askewd before it has just link me to that thread.
I just dl pathfinder and am liking it so far, i love the races OTHER than the extra +2 they get, now when i run my game with pathfinder i WONT be using the extra +2 but just got to ask has the devs said why they thought this was needed? i think too many players cry when the dont got a 18 in stats, but stats dont make a PC players do.
You can read in the Alpha Rules a little side bar disigner note from Jason. Essentially they want to make the core races once again take center stage - so that those player who prefer the power creep of playing alt races from splat races may be inclined to play the bread-n-butter races of D&D.
Too many people shucked their elf and gnome and halfling for catfolk, goliath, whispergnomes, and tiefling.
Personally - I think it was a great move.
Robert
You can read in the Alpha Rules a little side bar disigner note from Jason. Essentially they want to make the core races once again take center stage - so that those player who prefer the power creep of playing alt races from splat races may be inclined to play the bread-n-butter races of D&D.
Too many people shucked their elf and gnome and halfling for catfolk, goliath, whispergnomes, and tiefling.
Personally - I think it was a great move.
Robert
Of course a big reason alot of those races ended up being played was because players were bored with the core races, not because they were substantially weaker. For example, I game with several women, so it is perhaps not surprising when one of them wanted to play a catfolk, not because they thought the race was powerful, but because the player likes cats.
hey all, i tried to use the search for this topic but all i get is pdfs and books for sale , dont know why i can search boards for topics but anyways sorry if this as been askewd before it has just link me to that thread.
I just dl pathfinder and am liking it so far, i love the races OTHER than the extra +2 they get, now when i run my game with pathfinder i WONT be using the extra +2 but just got to ask has the devs said why they thought this was needed? i think too many players cry when the dont got a 18 in stats, but stats dont make a PC players do.
You can read in the Alpha Rules a little side bar disigner note from Jason. Essentially they want to make the core races once again take center stage - so that those player who prefer the power creep of playing alt races from splat races may be inclined to play the bread-n-butter races of D&D.
Too many people shucked their elf and gnome and halfling for catfolk, goliath, whispergnomes, and tiefling.
Personally - I think it was a great move.
Robert
Or people weren't playing Core races cause they were bored of them.
Too many people shucked their elf and gnome and halfling for catfolk, goliath, whispergnomes, and tiefling.
Yep, when I've seen goliaths and whispergnomes played, its solely for the (possibly over powered) abilities these races provide. Their selections rarely have anything to do with a "roleplayed" choice.
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Yep, when I've seen goliaths and whispergnomes played, its solely for the (possibly over powered) abilities these races provide. Their selections rarely have anything to do with a "roleplayed" choice.
That is my experience also... The only time I ever seen any play a race for Roleplaying reasons was when the played a Half-Elf... Why else would you play a Half-Elf? ;-)
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Another benefit, from a mechanical standpoint, is that it allieviates some of the burden of MAD. That strengthens some of the classes who had the most problems with MAD (monk and paladin), while simultaneously justifying Pathfinder's push toward expanding MAD slightly on classes that were previously single attribute classes (wizard, druid and particularly cleric).
For instance, a 1st level half-orc monk could have the following statline, using the "default array:" Str 17, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 8. All 4 of the class' important attributes have positive modifiers, but more importantly, the two most important have +3s. That's a 32 point buy for a 3.5 human, or 31 points for a 3.5 half-orc (29 points if you were willing to have a Cha 6). But in Pathfinder, that's standard equipment. This improves the overall functionality of the game, allowing for a better balance between classes and characters.
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It also helps to distinguish races that before were too similar, Gnomes and Dwarves both had con bonuses but a dwarf got large size and a cha penalty (traditionally less important) whereas gnomes got small size and a str penalty, this meant really that no one played gnomes unless it was for roleplaying reasons because they were to mechanically similar to the dwarf and had no real benefit.
The reason for +2 and -1 is so that each core race could have a bonus in both a mental and a physical stat. This is also mirrored in the favored classes with each race having a caster class that uses it's mental boost, and a martial class that leverages it's physical stat. The exceptions to this in Alpha 3 are the Gnome which has 1 1/2 caster classes and the Halfling with has 1/2 of a caster class.
Elf: Dex/ Int - Ranger/ Wiz
Dwarf: Con/ Wis - Fighter/ Cleric
Half Orc: Str/ Wis - Barb/ Cleric
Gnome: Con/ Cha - Bard/ Sorcerer
Halfling: Dex/ Cha - Rogue/ Bard
Halfling and Human don't have 2 bonuses because their flexible stat bonus always allows them to have a bonus in their favored class.
-- Dennis
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The reason for +2 and -1 is so that each core race could have a bonus in both a mental and a physical stat. This is also mirrored in the favored classes with each race having a caster class that uses it's mental boost, and a martial class that leverages it's physical stat. The exceptions to this in Alpha 3 are the Gnome which has 1 1/2 caster classes and the Halfling with has 1/2 of a caster class.
Elf: Dex/ Int - Ranger/ Wiz
Dwarf: Con/ Wis - Fighter/ Cleric
Half Orc: Str/ Wis - Barb/ Cleric
Gnome: Con/ Cha - Bard/ Sorcerer
Halfling: Dex/ Cha - Rogue/ BardHalfling and Human don't have 2 bonuses because their flexible stat bonus always allows them to have a bonus in their favored class.
-- Dennis
obviously you meant half-elf not halfling heh.
And the lack of a penalty for humans/half-elves is to offset the lack of a secondary bonus.
It also has the (possibly unintended) benifit of making some of the low-powered end level adjustment creatures (such as Hobgoblins and Aasimar) better balanced to be PCs in the reverse.
Under the new racial balance... do Hobgoblins still really need a +1 level adjustment?
Too many people shucked their elf and gnome and halfling for catfolk, goliath, whispergnomes, and tiefling.
Not one of those races exist in my campaign world. Heck dwarves and elves are pretty rare and children follow them around when they are in towns.
I have a lot of trouble with the concept of a world that developed 15 primary races let alone the hundreds or thousands in splat books. I've also seriously consolidated the monsters so there are far fewer red-shirt races. Overall the game just runs smoother if I can see how the races interact with each other in the world scale. Hey... I'm not suggesting you guys play that way.
I've found that generally the people who decide they want to play some uber race are either munchkins or total newbs. The munchkins are doing it to break the game and will be enough trouble without their special race. The newb is probably picking a race that is sub-par and would have enough trouble pulling their weight with a normal race.
Again... I'm not suggesting my way of DMing is for every group... *shrug*
-- Dennis
I been thinking about this and how many DM have to now deal with PCs with 20 stats? I mean +5 att and dmg 1st lvl, even wizards with DC of 15+ how many people that are using the system have seen an increase of 20s in starting stats? ahhh am starting to miss the 2e max stat charts heh
Well honest rolls with 4d6x6, or the 15 point buy in tend to seriously limit the number of 20s you see on character sheets. Granted when rolling up characters you do see those 18s but not nearly on every character.
Overall though, mental stats are getting a major boost from the new racial limits.
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I been thinking about this and how many DM have to now deal with PCs with 20 stats? I mean +5 att and dmg 1st lvl, even wizards with DC of 15+ how many people that are using the system have seen an increase of 20s in starting stats? ahhh am starting to miss the 2e max stat charts heh
I have never understood this mentality. I'm not saying it's faulty, just that I never understood it.
As DM, you have access to unlimited creatures, resources, and ad hoc alterations at your fingertips.
Does a +5 modifier vs a +4 really disrupt things that much?
Personally, if the PCs seem more powerful than they should for a particular level or encounter, you can simply add another wolf to the encounter, or easier yet - just rule of 1. Increase all variable D20 modifers by 1 for the NPC/Creatures of that combat (saves, attacks, skills, and AC increase by 1 - certainly balances that out)
Relatively speaking - when that happens, the character(s) is no more powerful than if they didn't have a 20. But ultimately, the player doesn't actually KNOW or SEE that slight modifier you made and so instead they're simply blissfully ignorant and just happy as a lark that they have a 20 thinking they're all-mighty.
I have never had a problem challenging PCs who get a better stat etc. It just not a problem. And ultimately the players feel good about it, and smile - even when you're kicking their teeth in "hey at least you have that 20 wisdom!"
Robert