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This is the News from Wizards the coast on 6 June.
We are excited to announce that the Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition Game System License will be released early next week.
The license with accompanying System Reference Document (SRD), Statement of Acceptance (AKA confirmation card), Compatibility Logo, and FAQ will be posted to http://www.wizards.com/d20 and will go live immediately upon publication. The license, logo, and acceptance form will be posted as downloadable files.
Anyone wishing to participate in the D&D 4E GSL will need to fill out a Statement of Acceptance and return it by mail to Wizards of the Coast.
First on-sale date for GSL compatible products is October 1, 2008.
We are also working on a new fan site policy, to be made public at a later date.
Am I missing something or is it now the end of the next week and still no GSL?
One of the few things upsetting me this whole 4E roll out is the constant blown Deadlines set by WotC with no word from them..
ARGGH!!!!
Like I said... Did they actually release it and I am missing it?
There was a thread started on these boards over the weekend regarding the GSL or lack of sightings of it: *Anyone Seen The GSL*
Also I think there was a post on the WotC forums from yesterday that said it wasn't ready yet.
Aye, I think it has been pushed back unfortunately. The Rouse said they were adding in stuff from PHB II, and something about waiting for Psionics?
Hopefully we get it before the week itself is done, but with the work week rapidly ending I'm not sure if they can convince anyone to pull a weekend gig ...
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Aye, I think it has been pushed back unfortunately. The Rouse said they were adding in stuff from PHB II, and something about waiting for Psionics?
Hopefully we get it before the week itself is done, but with the work week rapidly ending I'm not sure if they can convince anyone to pull a weekend gig ...
What I don't understand is if it was not ready why would you say at the end of last week you were releasing it early this week?.... They did update it Friday to say this..
The Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition Game System License and System Reference Document are in the final editing stages. We will be publishing these documents, the Statement of Acceptance (AKA confirmation card), Compatibility Logo, and FAQ to http://www.wizards.com/d20 as downloadable files.
Anyone wishing to participate in the D&D 4E GSL will need to fill out a Statement of Acceptance and return it by mail to Wizards of the Coast.
The GSL will be live upon posting. First on-sale date for GSL compatible products is October 1, 2008.
The new fan site policy, to be made public at a later date, will be posted upon completion
They should have said that originally... Stating that it would have been released early this week makes the assumption that it was done...or very very close..
Missed deadline? From WotC? How could it be?!?
:/
Chief Technical Officer
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First on-sale date for GSL compatible products is October 1, 2008.
I find it amusing* that they continue to delay the GSL, yet they continue to restate the October 1 date for products to appear.
To give you an idea of how long it takes to put out a quality Paizo product, Wes is just about to start the main push on writing Pathfinder 16, which is due for release in the middle of November.
In short, if we wanted to have any 4E products out by October 1, we really needed the GSL and the rules at least six weeks ago. (And that assumes that we could have come up with a product concept on the spot and then immediately assigned it to an author who was able to start writing that same day.)
At this point, it's not very likely that Paizo will have any 4E products to offer in 2008.
It kinda seems like they waited till the last minute to do all this stuff...
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It kinda seems like they waited till the last minute to do all this stuff...
No, they didn't wait till the last minute.
The last minute was back in January and this is June and its still not done. As noted above, there is not really much of a chance that there will be any 3rd party 4e stuff on the market until the very end of the year or next year.
Yeah, this sucks... Was kinda hoping to see Necromancer's Advanced Player's Guide for the missing classes, and now it'll probably come out near the actual Player's Handbook 2.
That would kind of negate the value of that particular book wouldn't it?
Yeah, odd that. I'm sure WotC wouldn't intentionally do that... ;)
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In short, if we wanted to have any 4E products out by October 1, we really needed the GSL and the rules at least six weeks ago. (And that assumes that we could have come up with a product concept on the spot and then immediately assigned it to an author who was able to start writing that same day.)At this point, it's not very likely that Paizo will have any 4E products to offer in 2008.
It really doesn't look like TPD is really a part of thier business strategy. Rather, they are focused on delay as long as possible in an attempt to burn more competition out of the marketplace.
Likewise, they probabaly feel they have little at stake. Their product will continue to sell.
Yeah, this sucks... Was kinda hoping to see Necromancer's Advanced Player's Guide for the missing classes, and now it'll probably come out near the actual Player's Handbook 2.
It is my understanding that much of the APHB is being written by Ari Marmell, a playtester. Since he had advanced copies of the rules, he hasn't been as limited as others re: the GSL issues, so you may see it later this year yet.
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Yeah, odd that. I'm sure WotC wouldn't intentionally do that... ;)
That would kind of negate the value of that particular book wouldn't it?
It would be rather stupid of them to do so, even by WotC's impressive recent track record. Clark Peterson's about the only champion of 4e not working for WotC itself, and even he's fairly soured on the whole GSL thing lately.
It would be rather stupid of them to do so, even by WotC's impressive recent track record. Clark Peterson's about the only champion of 4e not working for WotC itself, and even he's fairly soured on the whole GSL thing lately.
Not necessarily stupid. If you can delay 3PP market entry for a little while, that's a plus, and once it comes out and the 3PPs get their products to market people will forget about the delay and move forward.
I mean, what's the practical effect of Clark Peterson being soured going to be from the point of view of WotC. Nothing. Same for everyone else.
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Yeah, this sucks... Was kinda hoping to see Necromancer's Advanced Player's Guide for the missing classes, and now it'll probably come out near the actual Player's Handbook 2.It is my understanding that much of the APHB is being written by Ari Marmell, a playtester. Since he had advanced copies of the rules, he hasn't been as limited as others re: the GSL issues, so you may see it later this year yet.
The writing is done, but Clark has been pretty upfront in saying he can't afford to do anything else with it until the GSL is out - Art, layout, etc.
He's also said he doubts anything can be released for October at this point.
I wonder how this delay will effect the Goodman Games 4e game for Free RPG day coming up June 21, '08. Sure it isn't selling the product, but if they just release it without the GSL in it, since probably had to be printed now to meet that date. How is that goign to work out?
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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I will believe that there will actually be a GSL the minute it is in my grubby hands, and not a second before. At this point there have been far too many blown deadlines and fumbled assurances to take the whole thing seriously.
I stopped seriously worrying about this about three months ago, and won't start again until Wizards has something real to show us.
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Chief Technical Officer
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I wonder how this delay will effect the Goodman Games 4e game for Free RPG day coming up June 21, '08. Sure it isn't selling the product, but if they just release it without the GSL in it, since probably had to be printed now to meet that date. How is that goign to work out?
Goodman realized several months ago that he wasn't going to be able to do a 4E product for Free RPG Day. Instead, he has done a Dungeon Crawl Classics Gazetteer—I don't think it has any rules content.
So now that Wizards has essentially screwed the third party publishers more times than one can count, and only iced the cake by sitting on the GSL so long they're unlikely to make GenCon deadlines, I can't imagine that it's going to fare well for relationships between Wizards and the licensees.
From my understanding of what's been stated here on the boards, GenCon isn't even a factor, as October 1st is the earliest 3rd party publishers can publish for 4th edition. Also, I gathered from other threads here on Paizo's site publishers needed to have stuff off the the printers this week in order to have stuff ready for GenCon. So yeah, I think this is one glaring dropping of the ball on Wizards part.
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...sitting on the GSL so long they're unlikely to make GenCon deadlines...Publishers can't make GSL products available until October 1, so even if we *could* have one ready by Gen Con, we wouldn't be allowed. The only 4E products at Gen Con will be from Wizards.
And thus why I was saying I can't imagine that this is endearing WotC and 4E to the third party publishers ;-) Missing out on the big premiere event and an opportunity to sell mass amounts of product can't be making anybody happy.
D'oh! Ya beat me!
Also, I gathered from other threads here on Paizo's site publishers needed to have stuff off the the printers this week in order to have stuff ready for GenCon.That's just us and our printer—other publishers and printers may have different deadlines.
Sorry to step on your toes Vic. I've been bored tonight (and sick with a cold) so have been doing a lot of reading on the boards here. But hey, at least I'm well informed :)
When it comes to making deadlines, WotC have mastered the art of Epic Fail. The core books being released on time was a tragic accident which they are still investigating. Fear not! Someone is going to lose their job over those 3 core books coming out on the day they were supposed to. A black mark on an otherwise perfect track record.
On a side note, I need to remember to never loan them money.
On a side note, I need to remember to never loan them money.
I'll likely have no problem there -- after the 4e rules, my money is increasingly unlikely to be going in that direction :)
I'd rather find products made by a company that does business with honesty, integrity, professionalism, and respect for long-time customers.
To give you an idea of how long it takes to put out a quality Paizo product, Wes is just about to start the main push on writing Pathfinder 16, which is due for release in the middle of November.
UGGGH... don't remind me.
Paizo is looking smarter and smarter.
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To be fair to WotC, they've admitted spending "in the multiple 7 figures" on R&D for 4th edition. They worked very hard to put this product together and build their business around it. If they want to reserve for themselves the chance to recoup some of that investment at GenCon 2008 I think they might have a case.
I think if they would have presented it that way, too, it would have been a more palatable pill to swallow all around.
The handling of the GSL is as mystifying as it is inexcusable, though.
Thing is, although one might be willing to throw another company a bone on a personal level, when it comes to business development it all comes down to the WIFM (What's in it for me). WotC can do whatever they want when running their business, but success when working with another company revolve around the idea that it's win-win for both sides (in this case 3rd party publishers). I doubt this pill is at all palatable for any of the 3PPs out there; it means they're missing out on the big event and now have to wait nearly a full year to do it again (which is a LOOONG time in game parlance).
WotC's original plan: Charge $5000 for publishers to get early exclusive access to the 4e market in hopes of having high quality third party products out to set the bar for 4e support.
Reality: The GSL will be released so late that most print publishers will not be able release anything of substance until well after Oct 1, so the initial 4e third party products will mostly be a glut of PDFs from small publishers and rushed together low quality products.
The GSL is written in ironic.
I'll likely have no problem there -- after the 4e rules, my money is increasingly unlikely to be going in that direction :)I'd rather find products made by a company that does business with honesty, integrity, professionalism, and respect for long-time customers.
Darn tootin'
I'll be spending the next several months and beyond doing my "look at all of this extra money I'm not spending" dance. WooHoo! My decision is lookin' smarter every day!
:-D
So Mr. Wertz after having a chance to "thumb" through a copy of the rules by now, is there any plans to produce any 4E products if and when this Mythical GSL ever sees the light of day?
At this point, it's not very likely that Paizo will have any 4E products to offer in 2008.
I wouldn't expect an answer form that until that "if and when" happens and the GSL is in their hands. The companies that would support 4e pretty much no matter what have already declared their intentions to support it (Goodman Games and Necromancer among the print companies), the others have been waiting for all of the facts until they make that decision. The rules are, of course, a big piece of that decision, but so is the GSL and SRD. Without those, I'm willing bet the answer is still "we're waiting".
Although, I suppose you could decide NOT to support 4e without seeing the GSL and SRD. So I suppose a negative decision could have been made, but as for a positive one, I can't imagine that being made without the license in hand.
Latest word on ENWorld is that final approvals are in place, and we should see the GSL and SRD tomorrow.
Fear not! Someone is going to lose their job over those 3 core books coming out on the day they were supposed to. A black mark on an otherwise perfect track record.Actually, didn't they actually come out a few days early in some cases? ;)
-Lisa
Very true. No jobs lost, then. Everything is proceeding according to plan. :)
I find it interesting that the delay this time was caused by additional review on the SRD, due to the insertion of forthcoming content (4e PHB2, Psionics?). In the past (and maybe I'm wrong here) there were revisions to the SRD which openned up more content. I'm wondering if the GSL is going to be iron-clan and specific to the content included in the SRD and the time the GSL is released (basically, the GSL will not be extensible and will be closely tied to the SRD, and future 4e content releases will *never* be included in the SRD.)
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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When it comes to making deadlines, WotC have mastered the art of Epic Fail. The core books being released on time was a tragic accident which they are still investigating. Fear not! Someone is going to lose their job over those 3 core books coming out on the day they were supposed to. A black mark on an otherwise perfect track record.
It's not such a conspiracy after all. Weren't they originally supposed to be released one at a time starting in April or May?
