Consecrate and Desecrate need updated spell descriptions, as they both affect the Turning Check (which does not exist in PFRPG).
Here are the old spell descriptions, with the text I propose to change emphasized.
Consecrate wrote:
This spell blesses an area with positive energy. Each Charisma check made to turn undead within this area gains a +3 sacred bonus. Every undead creature entering a consecrated area suffers minor disruption, giving it a -1 penalty on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saves. Undead cannot be created within or summoned into a consecrated area.
If the consecrated area contains an altar, shrine, or other permanent fixture dedicated to your deity, pantheon, or aligned higher power, the modifiers given above are doubled (+6 sacred bonus on turning checks, -2 penalties for undead in the area). You cannot consecrate an area with a similar fixture of a deity other than your own patron.
If the area does contain an altar, shrine, or other permanent fixture of a deity, pantheon, or higher power other than your patron, the consecrate spell instead curses the area, cutting off its connection with the associated deity or power. This secondary function, if used, does not also grant the bonuses and penalties relating to undead, as given above.
Consecrate counters and dispels desecrate.
Material Component: A vial of holy water and 25 gp worth (5 pounds) of silver dust, all of which must be sprinkled around the area.
Desecrate wrote:
This spell imbues an area with negative energy. Each Charisma check made to turn undead within this area takes a -3 profane penalty, and every undead creature entering a desecrated area gains a +1 profane bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws. An undead creature created within or summoned into such an area gains +1 hit points per HD.
If the desecrated area contains an altar, shrine, or other permanent fixture dedicated to your deity or aligned higher power, the modifiers given above are doubled (-6 profane penalty on turning checks, +2 profane bonus and +2 hit points per HD for undead in the area).
Furthermore, anyone who casts animate dead within this area may create as many as double the normal amount of undead (that is, 4 HD per caster level rather than 2 HD per caster level).
If the area contains an altar, shrine, or other permanent fixture of a deity, pantheon, or higher power other than your patron, the desecrate spell instead curses the area, cutting off its connection with the associated deity or power. This secondary function, if used, does not also grant the bonuses and penalties relating to undead, as given above.
Desecrate counters and dispels consecrate.
Material Component: A vial of unholy water and 25 gp worth (5 pounds) of silver dust, all of which must be sprinkled around the area.
Note that if you refer to the table for the Turning Check, you see that a +3 bonus effectively lets you turn as a cleric one level higher (at least for the purpose of the Turning Check); while a -3 penalty corresponds to turning as a cleric one level lower. Therefore, my proposed spell descriptions read:
(New) Consecrate wrote:
This spell blesses an area with positive energy. Positive energy channeled by a character in the area of affect is done so as if her cleric level were one level higher, while negative energy is channeled at one cleric level lower. Every undead creature entering a consecrated area suffers minor disruption, giving it a -1 penalty on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saves. Undead cannot be created within or summoned into a consecrated area.
If the consecrated area contains an altar, shrine, or other permanent fixture dedicated to your deity, pantheon, or aligned higher power, the modifiers given above are doubled (+2 cleric level for channeling positive energy, -2 cleric level for channeling negative energy, -2 penalties for undead in the area). You cannot consecrate an area with a similar fixture of a deity other than your own patron.
If the area does contain an altar, shrine, or other permanent fixture of a deity, pantheon, or higher power other than your patron, the consecrate spell instead curses the area, cutting off its connection with the associated deity or power. This secondary function, if used, does not also grant the bonuses and penalties relating to undead, as given above.
Consecrate counters and dispels desecrate.
Material Component: A vial of holy water and 25 gp worth (5 pounds) of silver dust, all of which must be sprinkled around the area.
(New) Desecrate wrote:
This spell imbues an area with negative energy. Negative energy channeled by a character in the area of affect is done so as if her cleric level were one level higher, while positive energy is channeled at one cleric level lower. Undead creatures entering a desecrated area gain a +1 profane bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws. An undead creature created within or summoned into such an area gains +1 hit points per HD.
If the desecrated area contains an altar, shrine, or other permanent fixture dedicated to your deity or aligned higher power, the modifiers given above are doubled (+2 cleric level for channeling negative energy, -2 cleric level for channeling positive energy, +2 profane bonus and +2 hit points per HD for undead in the area).
Furthermore, anyone who casts animate dead within this area may create as many as double the normal amount of undead (that is, 4 HD per caster level rather than 2 HD per caster level).
If the area contains an altar, shrine, or other permanent fixture of a deity, pantheon, or higher power other than your patron, the desecrate spell instead curses the area, cutting off its connection with the associated deity or power. This secondary function, if used, does not also grant the bonuses and penalties relating to undead, as given above.
Desecrate counters and dispels consecrate.
Material Component: A vial of unholy water and 25 gp worth (5 pounds) of silver dust, all of which must be sprinkled around the area.
These spells are slightly more powerful than the 3.5 version (they both affect both good and evil clerics, whereas the old spells affected only good clerics). Also note that if you a cleric of odd level when you cast these spells the effect is on the Will save DC for half damage (either +1 or -1); if you are even level, it increases the number of dice by one.
In my past experience as a cleric, I'd say double those figures. Let a cleric who cast the spell get the benefits of both odd and even levels. More clerics will be looking for the extra damage (cause we love tasty damage and the 1 in 20 chance of making a difference is pretty iffy) so when they only use it on half their levels to get a boost It'd be pretty odd.
The biggest boost that spell gave was a boost to the effects dealt with turning. Affecting undead of 1 HD higher could have meant the difference between scaring a vampire or amusing him. It meant the difference between a bunch of zombies shuffling away, or them falling to ash before you. With just dealing damage +1 character level is just more damage to an attack. As you have written its just not the same effect.
Its essentially a buff spell and without big rewards the round feels wasted. Add that to way turning either makes or breaks the encounter its effect probably won't be felt for long or too long, both which will make the effect feel more mundane. If the encounter ends too soon because of a good turning they wasted a spell for 1 round of combat. If it takes too long, then the bonus will feel like it didn't make much of an effect. I'm pretty sure if they roll all the dice at once on round 10 they'll pick the d6 with a 1 on it as their 'bonus' from the spell.
To feel better about giving +2 levels to turning checks, think about this. A owl's wisdom will add +2 to their DC. We're only adding +1. And a second level spell that adds a d6 to an attack? flaming arrows? But that spell applies to attacks that can be made more than once per round, so flaming arrows grants +1d6 to +4d6 depending on base attack bonus. 1d6 sounds pretty harmless.
I've been thinking about this as well. I'd just give a flat +1d6 to turning damage and +1 to save DCs. An altar doubles these. The penalties to undead still apply normally so they already have a -1 or -2 penalty on saves. So with an altar they would suffer +2d6 damage and a -4 penalty to will saves versus turning. That's pretty significant.
Desecrate would likewise significantly boltser (-1d6 to turn damage, -1 to save DC, doubled with altar).
Okay, I'm still on the fence. Here is my consideration.
Of the two spells, desecrate will benefit more often from the altar bonus than consecrate. After all, how often are you fighting undead in the Shining Temple of Pelor? So the two spells appear, on the surface, to be symmetric, hence equipotent. But they are not.
Under my proposed change, good clerics will receive +1d6 or +1 DC when they cast the spell, and evil clerics will often gain both benefits.
Under your proposed change, good clerics will receive both +1d6 and +1 DC when casting, and evil clerics will get +2d6 and +2 DC. This is on top of the -4 penalty that the players will take on their saves for a total of +6 increase in the difficulty in saving against this spell.
My point is simply that your version of these spells has a wider power gap between good guys and bad guys than my version. I haven't decided yet if this outweighs your valid concern about players only wanting to cast this spell if they are even level. Any suggestions? Maybe this power gap isn't even so bad?
It doesn't bother me that it's more powerful on the bad guys home turf. It should be. One should note that the good guy can still use a standard action to cast consecrate on a desecrated area with an altar and cancel the desecration effect completely. I rather like that his becomes a more viable and worthwhile action to take.
I'm not sure what you mean about the penalties to the good guys. The good guys would have no save penalties versus the turn check of an evil cleric in a desecrated area. The turn would have a higher damage and DC, but I don't see where the penalties are coming from.
Arne Schmidt wrote: I'm not sure what you mean about the penalties to the good guys. The good guys would have no save penalties versus the turn check of an evil cleric in a desecrated area. The turn would have a higher damage and DC, but I don't see where the penalties are coming from. You're right. My mistake.
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