Monte Cook mentioned the DM Screen on his website, so I Googled it.
I found this review with pictures on a website called Gamer Bling.
It looks cool, but I can't imagine where I would store it. And, at 5' 4" (And 1/2!!!!) I might need a bigger chair to see over it. ;)
EDIT: I got beat to it... but I'll leave the link.
Monte Cook mentioned the DM Screen on his website, so I Googled it.
I found this review with pictures on a website called Gamer Bling.
It looks cool, but I can't imagine where I would store it. And, at 5' 4" (And 1/2!!!!) I might need a bigger chair to see over it. ;)
EDIT: I got beat to it... but I'll leave the link.
Oooooooh. We wants it, my precious.
Wayfinder, PaizoCon Founder
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Ya, Hastings let me keep the box of stuff they got. So I plan to use it up at my buddies store. A lot of people seem interested.Speaking of swag....
the Coolest Freakin' DM Screen EVAR (tm).
It was molded gray plastic, weathered with black to look like a three-paneled castle wall, with towers in each "joint" like so:
\o____o/
Yeah, I saw Andy Collins and James Wyatt using those at Game Day HQ. No, I did not think to get pictures, as they were only being used by those two, so I figured it was a Special item.
For Swag at the event, everyone got a Jinx shirt featuring the gnome in the cartoon saying, "I'm a monster! RAWR!" on the front and "Dungeons & Dragons" on the back. I stepped out for a beer next door and missed a lottery drawing for a poster, though. The beer was OK...
BTW, neither of the players that had the wizard stuck to the magic missile the way your guy. Or if they did, they didn't complain about it.
She was excited when she got to slap the BBEG off of his perch with Thunder-whatever, but aside from that I think that she was hoping for a greater variety of at-will abilities, and compared to the others, her damage output didn't seem that stellar. She didn't want to get stomped on in melee, which didn't leave much beyond the Magic Missile after the first round or two of combat. I think she could have survived a few fights myself, but that was her choice and she stuck with it.
Out of curiosity, what else did your guys do while playing the wizard once the Encounter and Daily powers were used up?
It played smooth enough, but I got kinda bored fighting the white dragon. That might have been the judge, but I am not sure.
Jason
I know what you mean. Neither of my groups got "kinda bored" with the white dragon encounter, but at one point at the end of the big fight (the point where everyone realized that noone was on the verge of death but there were still bad guys to put down) the fight turned into a "roll-fest."
Granted, I've had encounters like that before in 3.x where I simply stopped the fight and said "You eventually kill the remaining zombies using your hit and run tactics, never giving them an opportunity to hit back."
Out of curiosity, what else did your guys do while playing the wizard once the Encounter and Daily powers were used up?
I had to look at the photo copied character sheets I made to see what the wizard's abilities were.
The players used the magic missile more against the hobgoblins, and the thunderwave more in the other fights, and neither player ever used their dagger.
The big fight against the skeletons, the statues, and Helvec, quickly turned into a battle for position as the skeletons pushed the PCs out of the room with Helvec and the PCs tried to hold the line and push back.
In the dragon encounter, the dragon moved into a healing circle, and the PCs used their abilities to push the dragon back and out of it.
So, maybe my guys did use magic missle as much, but just didn't say anything about it.
It also just occured to me that the players in my second group are the guys I play with in our (sometimes) weekly group. The DM's wife (I'm a player in that group) plays a wizard and had purchased a wand of magic missiles as soon as we had the party funds for it, and now at 6th level, is on her second wand, but now a caster level 3 wand.
So she's been quite accostomed to having "free" magic missiles to fall back on when all else fails. She didn't like that she had to hit to use it, but she liked the damage, so she gave it a "one thumb up, one thumb down" review.
Here's a link to my Game Day pictures.
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Sadly, no one seems to have brought a camera to the Game Day at GranLan. I brought enough Master Maze for two of the games. Erik ran with one set, I ran the other. Steve Schend didn't get the terrain to use, but I hear they lent him the GM Screen of DOOOOOM!!!
I cast envious eyes at the GM Screen, but having just dropped a bundle on Confrontation minis (the last of the metal ones), I know better than to say peep about getting the screen.
Now maybe if I can get Erik to wrestle me for it...
:o)
Times are tough rigth now. I work 7 days a week and couldnt attend game Day.
My good friend pulled through for me though and somehow was able to get a DM kit for me.
So dont have it in hand yet but Im guessign I own the adventure, minis and all that good stuff.
I think I host my own personal gameday in my house soon enough :)
So, I went to a Game Day here in Dallas. There were so many people wanting to play, I had to sit out for the next game, and ended up just watching the folks in the 11 o'clock game.
Eight people played through the encounters, and while the increased number of players helped, there were more monsters accordingly. They had twice as many hobgolbins to deal with, and extra skeletons in the final encounter.
The surprising thing wasn't the difficulty, and it was difficult even with 8 players (with two clerics). The monsters put some serious smack down onto people, and the dwarf got beat to death by the statues. (Who while frightening the life out of everybody, seriously amused everyone because of the cool names for their powers.)
What surprised me was the speed and simplicity of the game play. The whole thing was finished in three hours, with nine people crowded around the table. They did quite a lot of roleplaying with each other, as the party sniped and argued in character, but the fighting was so easy, even for the new players, that nobody had any trouble.
I remember playing in large games under older editions. The five hour marathon battles they caused made me limit the number of people I allowed in my games, and that kind of speed is just crazy enough to make me reconsider.
As a DM, watching how combat worked, with all the nice healing minor powers and fighter options, I'm looking forward to 4th edition more then ever.
BTW, neither of the players that had the wizard stuck to the magic missile the way your guy. Or if they did, they didn't complain about it.She was excited when she got to slap the BBEG off of his perch with Thunder-whatever, but aside from that I think that she was hoping for a greater variety of at-will abilities, and compared to the others, her damage output didn't seem that stellar. She didn't want to get stomped on in melee, which didn't leave much beyond the Magic Missile after the first round or two of combat. I think she could have survived a few fights myself, but that was her choice and she stuck with it.
Out of curiosity, what else did your guys do while playing the wizard once the Encounter and Daily powers were used up?
I wound up playing the wizard when we did it and I think some of her powers were a bit limited by the size of the rooms and the low numbers of bad guys. I DID use the frost ground thing on the statues and wound up catching one of the boys in the blast, too. Oooops. Collateral damage! I used my fey step to jump up behind the Elf and the thunderthingy to knock him off the pedestal. One of the fighters then swooped in and bashed him to death with his daily so I didn't get to use my acid arrow after all.
I was there with my two sons at our (somewhat local) FLGS and we all had a pretty good time. More fun playing at home with our group, though!
I used my fey step to jump up behind the Elf and the thunderthingy to knock him off the pedestal. One of the fighters then swooped in and bashed him to death with his daily so I didn't get to use my acid arrow after all.
I think almost everyone that I've talked to knocked that poor evil elf off of his fancy perch. I mean, the whole setup just screams "c'mon, I DARE you to blast me off of my tower!". Good times.
More fun playing at home with our group, though!
Yeah, I'm always a lot more tensed up when I'm running for strangers. I definitely want to run at least one game with some of my regulars.
I wrote about my Game Day experiences on my blog. Sorry for just the link, but I'm too tired to re-type it all. My D20
William,
You don't clearly say what you thought about 4e, or what you felt about the gaming experience.
Just reading it, though, I was automatically put off by your DM's attitude toward running the game, and your description of the events were further proof that he made no or very little effort to try to run the game as it should have been.
You were robbed.
Even if you had a good time, and you didn't mind the DM "taking a relaxed approach" to a scenario where you're supposed to see the 4e mechanics for what they are.
Even if you later decided the game isn't for you, you would have had a chance to see the game.
The DM set you up for failure in the event. He did so by not being familiar with the adventure. He did so by tainting your experience with his own biased opinion. He did so by not using the 4e rules, or taking the time to figure out the rules.
Now... I'm still on the fence about 4e. I don't have the books, and the only exposure I've had is through Game Day and reading Keep on the Shadowfell. So I'm not saying this as a 4e Fan Boy.
I'm saying this as a gamer who likes to try new games.
But... as I said at the beginning, you didn't really say what you thought or felt about the game or the new edition.
-Casey
I wrote about my Game Day experiences on my blog. Sorry for just the link, but I'm too tired to re-type it all. My D20
Probably isn't my place to say, but...
Dude, you were robbed. The GM didn't get past the typo to actually read the module--because the answer to the riddle is right there. There's even DCs for clues, if the PCs get stumped.
I mean, I understand being roped into running at the last minute and not having the chance to look the whole thing over. Or not having the full ruleset in front of you and having to wing it. (they needed more pagecount so they could include things like say, falling damage)
But it sounds like your DM didn't give a crap about the rules and tried passing it off as a problem with the module rather than fessing up and saying, "I think 4e blows goats, so I'm just going to do my thing."
Bah.
Hmm . . . I guess you two are right in regard to never actually stating my opinion on fourth edition. That being said, I further agree with you as to not being able to get an idea about 4e from my Game Day experiences.
I will say that from what I've read of the rules books that I am looking forward to trying to game with my own gaming group. I've liked what I've read in the books and while I do see it as a completely different game from 3.5, it looks to be quite an entertaining game.
Hmm . . . I guess you two are right in regard to never actually stating my opinion on fourth edition. That being said, I further agree with you as to not being able to get an idea about 4e from my Game Day experiences.
I will say that from what I've read of the rules books that I am looking forward to trying to game with my own gaming group. I've liked what I've read in the books and while I do see it as a completely different game from 3.5, it looks to be quite an entertaining game.
I have a spare copy of the adventure and the map. I do not have the figures or character sheets. If you PROMISE to be a good and fair DM, I will send it to you. It can be a good ice breaker scenario but read this thread and other threads to get good ideas on how to make it a better 4th Edition Adventure. The best way to learn is to teach.
DClyborne@netscape.net
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Played the Eladrin Wizard in my first game of 4th, then DM'd one session afterwards. I will preface my observations by saying we had minimal access to a PHB and thus might have ruled incorrectly on some things.
A few things I noted:
- I spammed the crap out of my wizard powers (so much so that I really didn't care they were spells anymore, they just became an attack). Couple that with abusing certain capabilities:
thunderwave, blast 3, 1d6+Int damage and target pushed back 2 squares, in other words, I was pushing around anything I wanted, like the BBEG off his pedestal and the sarcophagi-filled-with-oil (basically this one power automatically negated a bunch of cool encounter designs). Oh, and when I DMd, the party suggested using the wizard as a mining tool, using at-will spell powers to blast away rocks...cool idea, but so broken.
- as mentioned, there are some creative encounters (a staged collapsing trap, BBEG on a pedestal, makeshift flaming-oil traps). But our "cool" powers negated them with no effort.
- combat took about the same amount of time as in 3.5, but this was likely due to inexperience with our characters abilities. But the only reason there were "more rounds" (a 4th edition selling point) was because monsters had obscene amounts of hp.
- auto-crits seriously hurt the PC's. Seriously.
- the Second Wind mechanic is not as bad as it seems, it really is a last ditch effort to stave off death (and more often than not it was better to attack at low level). However, outside of combat the healing mechanic was ridiculous.
- the party cleric felt useless: minimal combat ability as attack powers were not effective, unable to turn undead capably, while decent at healing, was very limited as to when he could use it.
- Fighters still felt ripped-off. Their attacks were not as cool as the wizards, and since they all target AC they generally sucked against most enemies in the adventure.
- rolling to hit for magic missile is the worst. The Wizard in my DM'd adventure rolled under 5 for every magic missile he fired. He felt like crap, and he was 12 years old.
- Rogue sneak attack is laughable, since it requires combat advantage, the easiest way to get it is by winning initiative. However, once enemies figured this out, it became a ridiculous game of "who can delay until next round" - the monsters won.
Oh, and the whole group ;aughed when the hobgoblins decided to grapple the human fighter to the ground to demand their release (this was totally improvised using the 3.5 rules, but it took less time to resolve than anything else we did that day).
- auto-crits seriously hurt the PC's. Seriously.
Random variability is almost guaranteed to always favor NPCs and monsters over PCs. This is one reason 3E used the confirm system.
- Fighters still felt ripped-off. Their attacks were not as cool as the wizards, and since they all target AC they generally sucked against most enemies in the adventure.
While AC is almost always the higher defense, Fighters (and other weapon users) get a proficiency bonus when using weapons they are proficient in to help offset this. Not sure how the characters/monsters in this module pair up though.
- Rogue sneak attack is laughable, since it requires combat advantage, the easiest way to get it is by winning initiative. However, once enemies figured this out, it became a ridiculous game of "who can delay until next round" - the monsters won.
I think you're doing this wrong. The easiest way of gaining Combat Advantage is through Flanking. The First Strike ability of Rogues works just like catching the monsters Flat-Footed in 3E. That is, you only have Combat Advantage against monsters that have yet to act in the encounter. Once they've had an action (even to delay) you don't have Combat Advantage anymore (and only Rogues get this ability!)
Cheers! :)
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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I think you're doing this wrong. The easiest way of gaining Combat Advantage is through Flanking. The First Strike ability of Rogues works just like catching the monsters Flat-Footed in 3E. That is, you only have Combat Advantage against monsters that have yet to act in the encounter. Once they've had an action (even to delay) you don't have Combat Advantage anymore (and only Rogues get this ability!)
Sort of. There is a feat that does it one better. Seize the Moment, Paragon Tier, gives you combat advantage in the surprise round and first round against anyone with a lower initiative than you.
Also, note only one sneak attack per round.
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Regarding pushing foes off pedestals: Note that under falling (not under pull/push/slide where it needs to be) it is explained that anyone pushed over an edge gets an immediate save to avoid going over the edge.
Ah, that would clear things up a bit. But as the power says "pushed two squares" if they were adjacent to the edge, I don't see the logic in giving them a save to avoid falling if they get blasted 10 feet over the edge...
As for the sneak attack, I admit we probably did it wrong, as our information was sketchy.
Also, we noticed that a few characters seemed to forget the proficiency bonuses from weapons, so that might have played a role in fighters not hitting things.
Ah, that would clear things up a bit. But as the power says "pushed two squares" if they were adjacent to the edge, I don't see the logic in giving them a save to avoid falling if they get blasted 10 feet over the edge...As for the sneak attack, I admit we probably did it wrong, as our information was sketchy.
Also, we noticed that a few characters seemed to forget the proficiency bonuses from weapons, so that might have played a role in fighters not hitting things.
By RAW, their forced movement ends if they make the save, and they simply end up prone in the square. I think the idea is the grabbed the edge at the last minute and luckily hung on. If that doesn't sit well with you, maybe allow the forced movement to continue but have them make another save for each square of movement that would push them off? (ie, a Push 2 on a guy standing on a single square platform would force him to make two saving throws to remain on top, and even then he'd be prone.)
Cheers! :)
I have a spare copy of the adventure and the map. I do not have the figures or character sheets. If you PROMISE to be a good and fair DM, I will send it to you. It can be a good ice breaker scenario but read this thread and other threads to get good ideas on how to make it a better 4th Edition Adventure. The best way to learn is to teach.
DClyborne@netscape.net
Thank you Duncan, I promise to indeed be a fair and good DM. I have e-mailed you my contact information. Thank you.
I had a great time at GameDay here in Seattle. They asked me to help out as a DM, and I was happy to oblige. Originally, I was only supposed to be showing up from 1-5, but I decided to have breakfast with Mearls, Andy Collins, and some other guys in Renton before heading up there. I figured I would hang out for 3 or 4 hours before I ran the game...but I was mistaken! When we got there, people were lined out the door, so they put me right to work.
I had the advantage of having run the adventure once before on Employee Gameday, but I must say I really like this one as an intro module. The riddle at the beginning lets people kind of get into the mode of gaming without throwing a ton of new mechanics at them, and frankly I thought it was a nice, kind of classic dungeon crawl set up. I liked that it encouraged the heroes to find their way into the dungeon and didn't just throw them in right away.
I still maintain that the first trap in the adventure is fantastic, as it is really tempting for the players to trigger. The rest of the adventure went well, but my Gameday group nearly got themselves into trouble by having to fight the statues and the final encounter all at once! By the end, everyone had a pretty solid handle on the mechanics, so it was just some classic dungeon crawling and adventuring.
We had a great time, and lots of other people seemed to as well. The white dragon encounter is a bit less engaging, only designed to take about half an hour, and really is more to show off how solo monsters work and let people play with their powers. It's too bad Jason didn't get there early enough to play in my Shadowhaunt game!
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We had time for the White Dragon. It was almost a TPK. Everyone was dead but the Human Fighter and the Dwarf. The dwarf was unconsious inside the healing circle(he hit -13 and was slowly healing back up). The fighter held up rather well he had about half HP and I kept missing with the Dragon's fury and the recharge roll. Finally the dwarf was at -2, with the human down to 2 HP when the Fighter crited. Killing the dragon.
I still maintain that the first trap in the adventure is fantastic, as it is really tempting for the players to trigger. The rest of the adventure went well, but my Gameday group nearly got themselves into trouble by having to fight the statues and the final encounter all at once! By the end, everyone had a pretty solid handle on the mechanics, so it was just some classic dungeon crawling and adventuring.
I had a long post yesterday about this, but it got ate, so...
I ran the adventure twice on Sat. First time was for 2 members of my regular group, and three people with rpg experience. The player of the wizard was so enamored of Magic Missile at will that that's all he used. Second time was for 1 of my regular group and 4 total newbies.
Both times the Human Fighter won initiative, both times the player decided to jump up on the trap and use his shield push power to drive the hobgoblin back so he could follow in the space. Both times I let it work, shoving the hobgoblin back, then using the trap as an interrupt to keep the fighter from following. Sploosh, FOOM, burning fighter. In the first section, the guy playing the Dwarf fighter ran up and grabbed the lantern off the other sarcophagus. In the second, all the characters ran up to melee, so the sarcophagi got tipped and spilled the flaming oil everywhere. Which brought the Human fighter to 0 HP (I rolled really well).
I thought it was a pretty imaginative set up. And it got the players to thinking about whatelse might be lurking around the corner.
Both groups went into the kid's room, both groups looked at the circle, both groups left without triggering the statues or the trap, both groups fought the BBEG and Skeletons with the Statues.
First group did pretty well, they used good tactics, fighters engaged the statues, the cleric and wizard engaged the BBEG, the Rogue took on the skeletons.
The second group had really imaginative tactics, but they also thought that the skeletons were more dangerous, so the Dwarf Fighter took on both statues by himself. The Eladrin Wizard blasted the top of the pedestal with the Ice Sheet type power, and then followed it up with Thunderwave. I thought that warrented not letting the BBEG get the save to avoid falling. So he bounced off the ground. The rogue was feeling pretty useless, he wasn't hitting. So he ran over, used his per day power and critted, killing the BBEG. He later critted a statue with his encounter power. So in the end, he felt useful.
In both cases, the pc's went back and the Wizard rolled beautifully to remove the circle, so they waltzed the kids out.
In comparison to previous game day adventures, this was much better. It seemed more imaginative, and while last fall's for example had rooms for each pc to do something, more pc's were able to contribute at each point in time. Nobody was sitting on their hands bored waiting for their turn or scene to show up. Kudos for the person who wrote this.
Only got to run 1 dragon fight. The PCs all clustered at the boulder, trying to move it, so I double moved the dragon, the action pointed a breath weapon to get them. Took all of them to bloodied in 1 action. The dwarf and the rogue ran around the battle while the cleric and the fighter held the line from the front, while the wizard blasted dragon with magic. They were barely holding on when the Dwarf and Rogue arrived at the rear of the dragon, where they proceeded to punkslap it around.
Everyone seemed to have fun, and a couple of the newbies went and bought books. Several people asked to join the regular gaming group. Unfortunately, we've only got 1 position open in the fall.
All in all, it was a good 11-6:30 day.