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I like the idea that bloodlines grant specific spells and class skills, further differentiating any given sorcerer from the next. However, I notice that the Abyssal bloodline grants Intimidate as a class skill. Intimidate is already a class skill for sorcerers.
I also agree with what Smerg said in another sorcerer thread in this forum, that the various bloodlines need to be compared to each other side by side to make sure that no bloodline is universally better than another.
Director of Games
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I like the idea that bloodlines grant specific spells and class skills, further differentiating any given bard from the next. However, I notice that the Abyssal bloodline grants Intimidate as a class skill. Intimidate is already a class skill for sorcerers.
I also agree with what Smerg said in another sorcerer thread in this forum, that the various bloodlines need to be compared to each other side by side to make sure that no bloodline is universally better than another.
Hmm... I thought I fixed all those, but it looked like Abyssal slipped through. I will look into a replacement. As for power balance, I would like to see a discussion on that (as I have my own thoughts, but would like to hear yours first) in a new thread. That said, we should probably give everyone a day or two to absorb and start playing with the material before we come to conclusions.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
How about Fey bloodline ability Quicken Spell??? Is it going to be changed or doesn't it trigger the extra spellcasting duration for spontaneous metamagic?
Will the extended casting time apply to all other metamagic feats, though? I know there's a strong demand for sorcerers to not be penalized in such a way.
If you'd rather that sorcerers do suffer the penalty as a general rule, I proposed in another thread that a compromise would be that metamagic feats on a bloodline's bonus feats list not suffer the slow-down for sorcerers of that bloodline. If I've got a sorcerer with the Aberrant bloodline and Silent Spell (no matter whether I gained it as a bonus feat or a regular feat), it wouldn't increase the casting time. However a Destined sorcerer who did have Silent Spell would still have to pay the increased casting time. This helps cement certain metamagic schticks to each bloodline and reinforces the bonus feats list, which is a flavorful compromise if you can't just go and declare that sorcerers no longer extend casting time for all metamagics (which would be the optimal solution, IMHO).
I read that before, indeed. I think it is a very good idea, but it would be important to give each bloodline matching metamagic feats, for balancing reasons. (Maximize spell is equally great as Silent and Still spell combined imho)
Will the extended casting time apply to all other metamagic feats, though? I know there's a strong demand for sorcerers to not be penalized in such a way.Yeap, spontaneous casters will still have extended casting time. If you want to get around that, you can take the Arcane Preparation feat.
Which is, frankly, a terrible thing, because it takes away from what makes a sorcerer a sorcerer. Of course, there are other options in WotC books and 3rd party publishers.
I think I will give my compromise a shot, and also perhaps the general waiving of metamagics. If Pathfinder is going to waive the extention for Quicken Spell, I fail to see why they wouldn't do it for everything else.
So far what I see with the Sorcerer bloodlines is a massive improvement, I'm seeing more emphasis on magic as it should be then melee combat. (Save for the draconic feats where I feel the emphasis is appropriate.)
I agree 100%... Gotta love the new sorcerer!
I do think however that giving the Arcane bloodline the Arcane bond with the arcane utility spells that line gets as free spells may overall considerably tip that bloodline in balance over the others. I'd like to see that ability replaced with something more in line and perahaps Arcane bond rolled into a feat that sorcerers can take.
This I do not fully share... I see those things you mention are some of the reasons for the arcane bloodline to be the default. Also, I do not see such imbalance in the bonus spells: if you want those spells, I do not see the difference between gaining them as bonus spells or selecting on your own. The spells, feats and powers of every bloodline seem designed to make each bloodline unique. The arcane bloodline makes for the most "wizardly" sorcerer, and thus it's appropiate to gain the arcane bond and the rest of its features. Giving arcane bond to every sorcerer would substract to the flavor of the arcane bloodline IMHO.
I'd like to make one suggestion. I know there was concern over sorcerers getting a little too combat-oriented with all the claw abilities, etc. But I really liked the fist of thorns ability for the Fey bloodline. I notice it got cut in favor of a touch ability that now induces a 1 round laughing fit. And I think that's the wrong direction to go. Bring back the fist and the thorns. I want my fey a little more fearsome than laughable. If they want to induce laughing fits, that's what the hideous laughter bonus spell is for...
But if my plea doesn't convince, let me try one more spin on it. How about a compromise? Put the fist of thorns back in place so sorcerers with the fey bloodline can still take unarmed attacks without provoking an attack of opportunity. Lower the damage amount to that of a spiked gauntlet (1d3 for Small creatures, 1d4 for Medium) and rather than enhance the damage by +1 per 2 sorcerer levels, give it special effects. At low level, the thorns produce a poison-like effect that dizzies or inducing the laughing fit for 1 round. At higher levels, the poison becomes more lethal. And so on. To me, that's a much more interesting fey bloodline power than the newly revised one.
Just my two-cents,
--Neil
I'd like to make one suggestion. I know there was concern over sorcerers getting a little too combat-oriented with all the claw abilities, etc. But I really liked the fist of thorns ability for the Fey bloodline. I notice it got cut in favor of a touch ability that now induces a 1 round laughing fit. And I think that's the wrong direction to go. Bring back the fist and the thorns. I want my fey a little more fearsome than laughable. If they want to induce laughing fits, that's what the hideous laughter bonus spell is for...
But if my plea doesn't convince, let me try one more spin on it. How about a compromise? Put the fist of thorns back in place so sorcerers with the fey bloodline can still take unarmed attacks without provoking an attack of opportunity. Lower the damage amount to that of a spiked gauntlet (1d3 for Small creatures, 1d4 for Medium) and rather than enhance the damage by +1 per 2 sorcerer levels, give it special effects. At low level, the thorns produce a poison-like effect that dizzies or inducing the laughing fit for 1 round. At higher levels, the poison becomes more lethal. And so on. To me, that's a much more interesting fey bloodline power than the newly revised one.
Just my two-cents,
--Neil
I do rather like this idea. Making the fey something semi-toxic seems rather in keeping with them.
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However, I notice that the Abyssal bloodline grants Intimidate as a class skill. Intimidate is already a class skill for sorcerers.
Hmm... I thought I fixed all those, but it looked like Abyssal slipped through. I will look into a replacement.
Have we gotten a fix yet? I have a player who is using an Abyssal Sorcerer in my playtest and we'd really like to know what his class skill is.
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I would suggest climb or escape artist. Both fit really well into the long armed/ elastic body motif which seems to dominate the class.
The Paizo people might get more active on the forums once their deadline passes, but it's likely you won't hear what the official change is until the beta is out.
-- Dennis
I would suggest climb or escape artist. Both fit really well into the long armed/ elastic body motif which seems to dominate the class.
He said Abyssal, not Aberrant (the one with the long arms).
I'd go for Knowledge [the planes], considering that an Abyssal sorcerer can get Skill Focus (Knowledge [the planes]) as a bonus feat. Or maybe Climb or Stealth if you don't want to repeat the same bonus skill twice.