What about Knowledge as an Intelligence save?


New Rules Suggestions

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

Right now knowledge is skill; you invest points and get more knowledgeable. It's a good system and represents learning in specific areas well. But it makes one's knowledge kind of narrow and doesn't account for crossover knowledge or knowledge outside of one's areas of expertise. If Knowledge worked like a save, the smarter and more experienced you were, the more knowledge you'd have. Specific knowledge could work two ways:

1) You could add areas of knowledge like languages, based on Int bonus. You could make a Knowledge save within the areas you'd chosen with your full save, or outside those areas with just an Int check.

2) Areas of knowledge could be feats that grant +5 to Knowledge saves in one area or +2 in two areas.

Or both.

Races and classes could also get +2 bonuses to Knowledge saves in certain areas.

With this, Knowledge no longer needs to be a skill, no longer eats up skill points, and classes that need lots of knowledge - like wizards - don't need as many skill points to represent their learning. Increasing wizards' skill points was always a little dangerous because most people didn't like proscribing a certain number of skill points to Knowledge skills but no one wanted wizards to ignore Knowledge and become quasi-rogues either. Knowledge saves could solve this problem.

[BTW, I also like the idea of a Grip save for Strength, moving Will to Charisma, and a Judgment save to see through illusions for Wisdom.]


Not gonna happen. For the simple reason that it would really mess with the idea of maintaining backwards compatibility. Frankly, adding another save to the game is likely to be something few people would care for.

This probably wouldn't fly with Pathfinder for maintaining backwards compatibility either, but you could adopt Star Wars SE skill rules where a character gains +1/2 levels to every skill. Trained skills have a +5. Skill Focus gives you an additional +5. It would be a much simpler way to accomplish what you want.

Dark Archive

Why should there be a new type of saving throw, especially something like "knowledge save"? I doesn't just make any sense to me -- not to mention that if one skill group is included as a saving throw, the rest of the skills should, too.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

The difference between a save and a skill is that every member of a class advances at the same rate in saves and at different rates in each skill. Saves represent something that all rogues or all wizards are good at. All rogues are good at dodging so they all get the same high reflex save. Unless you get into Flaws or Weaknesses, you can't really build a non-dodgey rogue.

I was thinking along these lines with Knowledge and bards and wizards. Right now, because Knowledge is a skill, you can build a bard or wizard who knows nothing. I guess that's okay, but it doesn't seem right to me. Bards and Wizards should just be knowledgeable. If Knowledge were a save, all bards and wizards would automatically become more knowledgeable at each level. Other characters too, but at a slower rate. If you wanted to be really knowledgeable you could take feats that give you a bonus to your save, but at it's base, all bards and wizards would have a minimum amount of Knowledge determined by their level.


That's why I am thinking about increasing some classes skill points per level and make INT-bonus points ONLY for Knowledge skills (or Language)

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