Hey Jade, glad to hear you are going to have a go at writing a book. You can put me down for a pre-pub order, as well.
I would add to the word count discussion that you should look at that as your target final count. If you over-write, it is all to the good, as it will help when you go back and edit and re-edit it. For an awful lot of writers, the real quality came in through the sometimes drudgerous editing process.
Also, do any of your connections in NYC extend into the formal publishing realm? I've heard tell that regardless of the quality of the writing, having someone who can open a door for you is a pretty valuable thing.
Hey Jade, glad to hear you are going to have a go at writing a book. You can put me down for a pre-pub order, as well.
I would add to the word count discussion that you should look at that as your target final count. If you over-write, it is all to the good, as it will help when you go back and edit and re-edit it. For an awful lot of writers, the real quality came in through the sometimes drudgerous editing process.
Also, do any of your connections in NYC extend into the formal publishing realm? I've heard tell that regardless of the quality of the writing, having someone who can open a door for you is a pretty valuable thing.
Thank you for the encouragement, Trey. It means a lot.
If I overwrite, he says. ;)
I do have some strong connections in publishing. I've even gotten away with forgetting to send in SASEs. And there is a though shalt not ya never want to forget.
Shazam! I'll tell you, having you guys behind me is a call to arms. (if by arms I mean pages filled with writing)
Thanks, Shiny!
Man, I need to talk to you more often. Look at you, writing a novel and all!
You know I won’t touch it unless it has pictures of naked people in it, so I suggest publishing the story Kilgore Trout style, spread out in two-to-three page increments in the back of nudie mags.
I can't promise anything but I may be able to push for folksy woodblock nudes.
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I can't promise anything but I may be able to push for folksy woodblock nudes.Man, I need to talk to you more often. Look at you, writing a novel and all!
You know I won’t touch it unless it has pictures of naked people in it, so I suggest publishing the story Kilgore Trout style, spread out in two-to-three page increments in the back of nudie mags.
I can see it now:
"The Big Book of Victorian Erotica" by Rone Barton
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In another thread some posters agreed that a certain book looked a bit daunting in length.
That was probably me.
To clarify, the reason the size of the book was daunting is that I don’t have a great deal of time to read right now, I kind of feel like something that I can digest in a few days. The other reason is that what time I do have to read is mainly on the bus, and I don’t enjoy lugging chunky books onto the bus (particularly since I don’t often get a seat, so Im holding the book reading standing up).
But in general I enjoy a long book and don’t worry that much about page count. Some of my fav books are The Lord of the Rings, The Reality Dysfunction and Magician, all of which are quite hefty.
I can't promise anything but I may be able to push for folksy woodblock nudes.Man, I need to talk to you more often. Look at you, writing a novel and all!
You know I won’t touch it unless it has pictures of naked people in it, so I suggest publishing the story Kilgore Trout style, spread out in two-to-three page increments in the back of nudie mags.
I can see it now:
"The Big Book of Victorian Erotica" by Rone Barton
You may not think so, to look at my current portfolio, but I am actually quite skilled in the rendering of Victorian Erotica.
Why, is that the entire House of Commons in a daisy chain that I see in the pamphlet?
I almost lost my monocle.
I can't promise anything but I may be able to push for folksy woodblock nudes.Man, I need to talk to you more often. Look at you, writing a novel and all!
You know I won’t touch it unless it has pictures of naked people in it, so I suggest publishing the story Kilgore Trout style, spread out in two-to-three page increments in the back of nudie mags.
I can see it now:
"The Big Book of Victorian Erotica" by Rone Barton
Oh, is that how my blind friend acquired all those splinters on his right hand?
In another thread some posters agreed that a certain book looked a bit daunting in length.That was probably me.
To clarify, the reason the size of the book was daunting is that I don’t have a great deal of time to read right now, I kind of feel like something that I can digest in a few days. The other reason is that what time I do have to read is mainly on the bus, and I don’t enjoy lugging chunky books onto the bus (particularly since I don’t often get a seat, so Im holding the book reading standing up).
But in general I enjoy a long book and don’t worry that much about page count. Some of my fav books are The Lord of the Rings, The Reality Dysfunction and Magician, all of which are quite hefty.
I also have little time to read fiction these days, but I do recall liking books I could toss off a balcony and kill a car with.
"The Big Book of Victorian Erotica" by Rone Barton
You may not think so, to look at my current portfolio, but I am actually quite skilled in the rendering of Victorian Erotica.
Why, is that the entire House of Commons in a daisy chain that I see in the pamphlet?
I almost lost my monocle.
Um... where exactly did you lose your monocle? I've got a not-so-fresh feeling.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Um... where exactly did you lose your monocle? I've got a not-so-fresh feeling.
And yet, you always smell like Summer's Eve to me.
And yet, you always smell like Summer's Eve to me.
Um... where exactly did you lose your monocle? I've got a not-so-fresh feeling.
You know, when I made a douche joke, I never thought I'd be called a douche! You brute you brute!
::said while hammering away harmlessly on Eyebite's chest::
Mother always warned me about you!
Naw, just kidding. I smell like that because I can't get enough of the stuff. I keep an iced pitcher of it in the fridge at all times during the warmer months. Zero calories and it tastes like flowers smell? How much? What's more, they're never out of my favorite flavors at the supermarket.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Naw, just kidding. I smell like that because I can't get enough of the stuff. I keep an iced pitcher of it in the fridge all all times during the warmer months. Zero calories and it tastes like flowers smell? How much? What's more, they're never out of my favorite flavors at the supermarket.
lol. Always a good day when you come across a thread and douche varieties are referred to as "flavors."
Well played sir!
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Oh, is that how my blind friend acquired all those splinters on his right hand?I can't promise anything but I may be able to push for folksy woodblock nudes.Man, I need to talk to you more often. Look at you, writing a novel and all!
You know I won’t touch it unless it has pictures of naked people in it, so I suggest publishing the story Kilgore Trout style, spread out in two-to-three page increments in the back of nudie mags.
I can see it now:
"The Big Book of Victorian Erotica" by Rone Barton
Maybe...
I think Rollins is just so buff he's always looking for ways to get in some extra exertion. His approach to onanism strikes me as 'why take the elevator when you can take the stairs' taken to an Olympic extreme.
Maybe. I seem to recall a story from one of his shows about him and a toilet seat.
Maybe. I seem to recall a story from one of his shows about him and a toilet seat.
"I'm alone in a hotel in Stockholm. I have a toilet and I have a penis. And I have a night off. And a cuuurious mind...."
Maybe. I seem to recall a story from one of his shows about him and a toilet seat."I'm alone in a hotel in Stockholm. I have a toilet and I have a penis. And I have a night off. And a cuuurious mind...."
LOL, that's the one! Thanks for refreshing my memory.
I think. :-\
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Eyebite, that's a really interesting factor. The continuity of the read. Keeping that forward motion going in order to deliver the most visceral impact. When I read The Stand as a kid, I dropped the book at page 400, but when I returned to it a few weeks later I felt I needed to reread about fifty pages back in order to ground myself. When I put it back down at page 600 for another couple of weeks I didn't want to have to go back to page 550. Why bother? I was no longer feeling the book.
Now put a 260 page book in front of me? Gobble gobble done. I'm living it in my head for a week afterwards.
This is one of the reasons why I've liked the four Tim Rackley novels by Gregg Hurwitz so much. Short enough where I can buy the thing, drive home from work, read until about 1 in the morning, and have the thing done. The other reasons are more standard: cool characters, fun plots, and satisfying endings, that last of which, incidentally, Mr. Hurwitz is the master of.
...ok, going against the common opinion here...
I prefer tight storytelling. Short stories and relatively short books. Which is probably why I read so little conventional fantasy or scifi nowadays, while I love writers like Borges, Calvino, Krohn, Noon etc. I have little interest in grabbing on of those 500-page part 1 of what I hope is a trilogy.
If I have no previous experience with the writer in question, I opt for shorter books: 200-250 pages is acceptable sacrifice, even if book is not that great it's no major loss (and I am also likely to stop reading the book unless the first 50 pages interest me). Longer books by unknown authors are a possibility if it manages to interest me in other ways but a 700-page book better be titled "Magdalena, You'll Love This Book".
With authors I have read before it's a different matter though for them too grabbing some magnum opus with 800 pages is a daunting task.
Big font does annoy me, it feels like a cheap ploy to make book look bigger (acceptable for children's books and those Clear Text books meant for people with vision impediments).
Small font just makes my eyes hurt.
Oh, and allow me to say that I utterly loathe the American way of not giving any kind of information about the book or author on back cover and instead putting there quotes, hype and spin given about the book or even worse, about the author's last book. There is one or two critics who I trust so much that I consider anything they are willing to recommend me, but majority of them...naah.
Hmm, that all came a bit negative...but so that you know.
Oh, for the record, I haven't got around to reading that Jonathan Strange book, despite several people with tastes I appreciate recommending it.
I have little interest in grabbing on of those 500-page part 1 of what I hope is a trilogy.
Obviously you're no big fan of Alexandre Dumas, then, who published part 3 of his Musketeers trilogy as a trilogy itself...
Not a fan of Dumas, no.
About that page count, I remembered one very odd Finnish writer, Antti Hyry...who writes these short novels (as in ~100 pages) and short stories, which are almost ridiculously devoid of any action. Yet they are strangely compelling, he somehow can handle the dynamics of the story in such a way that it works.
But with those I noticed the stories have to be read in one sitting, if you pause for a while and then continue the story falls apart. So maximum page count of immersion on that level is limited to about 100...
This might be a novelty for established authors.. but try putting an outline of major story points and selling that to the publisher. The publisher will tell you how long they want the book anyway.
Might actually have an easier time selling the story in that form rather than a finished form anyway.
This is one of the reasons why I've liked the four Tim Rackley novels by Gregg Hurwitz so much. Short enough where I can buy the thing, drive home from work, read until about 1 in the morning, and have the thing done. The other reasons are more standard: cool characters, fun plots, and satisfying endings, that last of which, incidentally, Mr. Hurwitz is the master of.Eyebite, that's a really interesting factor. The continuity of the read. Keeping that forward motion going in order to deliver the most visceral impact. When I read The Stand as a kid, I dropped the book at page 400, but when I returned to it a few weeks later I felt I needed to reread about fifty pages back in order to ground myself. When I put it back down at page 600 for another couple of weeks I didn't want to have to go back to page 550. Why bother? I was no longer feeling the book.
Now put a 260 page book in front of me? Gobble gobble done. I'm living it in my head for a week afterwards.
Thanks for your read on reading, Timespike. I have book ideas that could easily fill but an afternoon of reading, but the one I've got cooking just has to be longer to be true to itself. I'm thinking planning it for 300-350 is probably the way to go based on what everyone has said. Left to my own devices, my style for this book is one of compression, and I'm crushing quite a bit of information into a tiny space. That said, graceful, sweet language is there to alleviate some of the pain associated with getting wrecking balled by the density of it all.
That a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down.
Medicine go dow-wown, medicine go down.
Just a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down
in the most delightful way.
...ok, going against the common opinion here...
I prefer tight storytelling. Short stories and relatively short books. Which is probably why I read so little conventional fantasy or scifi nowadays, while I love writers like Borges, Calvino, Krohn, Noon etc. I have little interest in grabbing on of those 500-page part 1 of what I hope is a trilogy.
If I have no previous experience with the writer in question, I opt for shorter books: 200-250 pages is acceptable sacrifice, even if book is not that great it's no major loss (and I am also likely to stop reading the book unless the first 50 pages interest me). Longer books by unknown authors are a possibility if it manages to interest me in other ways but a 700-page book better be titled "Magdalena, You'll Love This Book".
With authors I have read before it's a different matter though for them too grabbing some magnum opus with 800 pages is a daunting task.Big font does annoy me, it feels like a cheap ploy to make book look bigger (acceptable for children's books and those Clear Text books meant for people with vision impediments).
Small font just makes my eyes hurt.Oh, and allow me to say that I utterly loathe the American way of not giving any kind of information about the book or author on back cover and instead putting there quotes, hype and spin given about the book or even worse, about the author's last book. There is one or two critics who I trust so much that I consider anything they are willing to recommend me, but majority of them...naah.
Hmm, that all came a bit negative...but so that you know.
Oh, for the record, I haven't got around to reading that Jonathan Strange book, despite several people with tastes I appreciate recommending it.
Very informative, quite funny and much appreciated. I'd probably read far more often if I wasn't attracted to books the size of bricks. My book does actually bear the title, 'Magdalena, You'll Love This Book'. How scary is that?!
This might be a novelty for established authors.. but try putting an outline of major story points and selling that to the publisher. The publisher will tell you how long they want the book anyway.
Might actually have an easier time selling the story in that form rather than a finished form anyway.
That plus a couple chapters. Yep, that's exactly what I did. ;) Sound advice, Paul, and yes, it can work for first timers as well.
1. When you look at a new book, what are your thoughts about length?
I don't even make a note of a book's page length, unless it's noticably thin (like 1/2 inch) or exceptionally thick (like 2 inches). Even if I make a note of its page count, it's not likely to influence my decision to read it or not.
2. How many pages is too many?
10,000 +
3. How many pages is too few?
- 50
4. Is font size a consideration? (Not that I can control such things if I'm not the publisher... but I want to know. Does font size sometimes trick you into thinking a book is longer or shorter than it really is? Or do you open a 250 page book, see a tiny crushed font size and realize that its going to be a ponderous read and eventually more difficult on the eyes?)
Yes, font size and spacing are considerations. If it's smaller than 10 or 12 point font, the strain on my eyes will be a point against the book. If it's larger than 14 point font, I have a habit of assuming the book was meant for a teen or pre-teen audience and therefore not interesting enough to read.
All that said, my decision to read something is based 99% on non-sizist factors like recommendations and how much I like the back cover plot summary. I might not be your target demographic here, as I am a writer myself and have a very high tolerance for factors that many other people don't want to deal with. Right now for example I'm reading "Holy Blood, Holy Grail"--for the second time. If you're not familiar, this is not a fiction book; it's a book of speculative research which was Dan Brown's inspiration for writing "The DaVinci Code." HBHG is basically a textbook of almost 500 pages including dozens of sources for each chapter. For someone like me, HBHG is an incredibly captivating page-turner but I know several people who have tried and failed to finish reading it the first time through.
TS
I could care less how long a book is as long as I can carry it. Two writing choices I despise are
1: chapters that alternate with different groups; places or story lines; makes me what to throw the book out.
2: A book needs to introduce a character and some story thread that captures my interest in the first couple chapters ;there are to many books and two little time to slog through a slow book waiting for the author to get the story going. A couple main characters and the problem should be outlined pretty early; then developed in later chapters.
I am not really into short stories, but if you have trouble writing a story that can stand alone in say 1000 words or so; your longer story will be problematic and probably have a lot of deadwood.
Cost is an issue with books; longer books cost more; I dont want to shell out money for a book like a Robert Jordan length book unless I know the author can write and keep my interest.
that said; I really like an author that has a good Authors page; tell something about themself and why they wrote the book
hope this helps
If your with a publishing house already; have you picked or been assigned an editor?
if you have a publishing house; see if they publish a magazine on your material topic or type; write a prelude or story in a similar setting that will set up your book and try to get it published.
Until your well know; font and spacing are not going to be up to you so dont worry about it; if your story is too long for a single first novel; then they will just cut it in two for two novel the second released pending the first sales figures maybe; all this is negotiable depending on your presumed customer draw. Try to consider in say the middle of your book how you might end it smoothly to set up the next book ;that way if this happens to you; you will not be blind sided and will appear flexible and easy to work with. Just a thought.
I could care less how long a book is as long as I can carry it. Two writing choices I despise are
1: chapters that alternate with different groups; places or story lines; makes me what to throw the book out.
2: A book needs to introduce a character and some story thread that captures my interest in the first couple chapters ;there are to many books and two little time to slog through a slow book waiting for the author to get the story going. A couple main characters and the problem should be outlined pretty early; then developed in later chapters.
The first point can be a bit gimmicky, though at least Gregory Keyes uses it quite a lot and manages to do it well.
For the second point, definitely. I know people who insist on finishing every book they start but I am not one of them, if I don't like the beginning chances are quite big that I won't like what's coming either.Though I have heard that at least Umberto Eco has a habit of writing first 50 pages in impenetrably dry manner to drive away all the casual readers, and after that the actual story kicks in...dunno, I like his beginnings too, though I admit that those books do get better after a while...
But anyway. I am a fan of short stories and I am willing to sample collections of unknown writers, because that way I can get quite quickly the idea if the artist is worth following or not. Sometimes I do reconsider the judgments though (for example my first introduction to Patricia Highsmith was quite "meh", but after some recommendations did try her other work and grew to like it).
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I guess I fall at the large end of the spectrum. The books I like the most tend to be 600 to 1000 pages long. The smaller books are good too, just that they leave me wanting more. The bricks let me have something that I can really get in to. Also, I kind of like the ability to step away from the book. Gives me time to digest all those plot elements in the gigantic novels I read.
Gosh, thinking about it, I've probably read over 10,000 pages in the last 5 months. Wow.
Keep up the work, Jade. I'll look for the book when it's out. I know I liked your style in the Dark Vistas podcast, so I'll definitely like the book. ;)
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I'm in the camp of those who don't care how big the book is but how well the material is presented. That said, I can generally devour a single book of about 300 pages in an afternoon if left to myself so I either prefer bigger books or more of them. Terry Pratchett's Discworld series is a perennial favorite, but my all-time favorite single book is less than 300 pages - Harper Lee's To Kill A Mockingbird.
Two more suggestions on books to help you write:
Zen and the Art of Writing by Ray Bradbury
The First Five Pages by Noah Lukeman
The first is great for inspiration; the second helps hone the craft.
I look forward to seeing your work, too. :)
Neither length nor font size are a consideration for me normally. They would only be a consideration if I were choosing a book for a specific occasion. But, I'm an academic, and much of my reading is either academic or its primary source material ranging from late antiquity to 19th century...so, probably not a good person to ask, unless you're shooting for oddness.
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For me there's only one consideration with a long book (or series). 'Will the ending be worth it?'
I've read some standalone novels (Idoru, by William Gibson) where I was completely let down by a limp ending, and some five book series (Reality Dysfunction/Neutronium Alchemit/Naked God by Peter Hamilton) where I loved 4.75 books of them and then wanted to hunt down and beat the author with a spoon for the end of the last book.
It's vital, IMO, that any long novel, or series of novels in particular, have *some* continuity seeded throughout it. The ending absolutely has to be thought out and carved in stone.
On the one hand, the foreshadowing has to be subtle enough or clever enough that the ending isn't telegraphed and the reader doesn't feel like he's got to read another 600 pages to see what he's already figured out. Ideally, the reader will be able to go back through the book and smack his head repeatedly going, 'Oh yeah! Now I see what she meant!' or 'That's why he smelled roses!' Re-reading such a book is a delight, as you get to see all of the little clues that you missed, that, individually, would never have have given away the ending, but, after reading that ending, lend a sense of consistency and versimilitude to the journey.
On the other hand, there's very little in reading that bugs me more than 'figuring out' a cool ending based on all of the foreshadowing, and then having the author pull a completely different ending out of their butt that doesn't relate to *any* of the background stuff they've been talking about for two to five books now.
Example:
Rowlins spent various chapters in at least three of the Harry Potter books having the Sorting Hat telling various characters (or even lecturing the entire school!) about how having seperate 'houses' was part of the problem and needed to be addressed, and was a pointless artificial distinction that the dark forces would be exploiting (with the main characters 'belonging' in other Houses anyway, with Harry pleading the Hat to not place him in Slytherin, Ron similarly expressing his terror that he'd be sent to Hufflepuff and be the first non-Griffondor in his family and Hermione being flat-out asked why the heck she isn't in Ravenclaw where she belonged). And then, the big finale, and, nothing. The main characters are lost in a blizzard or something and miss half of the book. The Sorting Hat? Apparently drank too much cough syrup or something, because everything it ever said turned out to be completely wasted paper. Whole lotta foreplay, and then the author runs off to the bathroom for a completely different ending, leaving the reader rapidly transitioning from aroused to royally pissed-off.
When I was younger and didn't realy have any money I always bought books with as many pages as possible for as low a price as possible. Nowadays I buy anything that looks cool.
In another thread some posters agreed that a certain book looked a bit daunting in length. As I'm now writing my first fantasy novel and considering such issues as pacing and wordcount, I'm curious to know the thoughts of those of you who currently buy fantasy novels. Many will read a classic that's 1000 pages if they've been told it's excellent, but what of a potential buyer approaching a new author? Where's the sweet spot and what are the limits?
1. When you look at a new book, what are your thoughts about length?
2. How many pages is too many?
3. How many pages is too few?
4. Is font size a consideration? (Not that I can control such things if I'm not the publisher... but I want to know. Does font size sometimes trick you into thinking a book is longer or shorter than it really is? Or do you open a 250 page book, see a tiny crushed font size and realize that its going to be a ponderous read and eventually more difficult on the eyes?)
Publishers have their own parameters for what they're willing to put out from a first time novelist, but I can always fix it in the mix.
For the most part page count isn't a factor for me. Reading is a joy, sadly one that I don't always have time for. But as soon as I own the book I can pick it up when I like.
TTFN.
Put me down for a pre-production autographed copy with a picture of you as a baby for a bookmark.
Oo! Replies!
I guess I fall at the large end of the spectrum. The books I like the most tend to be 600 to 1000 pages long. The smaller books are good too, just that they leave me wanting more. The bricks let me have something that I can really get in to. Also, I kind of like the ability to step away from the book. Gives me time to digest all those plot elements in the gigantic novels I read.
Gosh, thinking about it, I've probably read over 10,000 pages in the last 5 months. Wow.
Keep up the work, Jade. I'll look for the book when it's out. I know I liked your style in the Dark Vistas podcast, so I'll definitely like the book. ;)
Thanks, Wandlsinger. There's seems to be a sweet spot that appeals to almost everyone, 300 pages seem to be the ideal, moving toward the forgiveable 350 page mark. However, the 400+ page books I read took up large chunks of my time, and in so doing became a permanent part of my memory and who I am. Those 180 Frank Herbert books were flitting sparks compared to the roaring sun that were the Dune books, and I can barely remember their details. Dune on the other hand? I remember the character names and most of the words in that glossary of terms in the back. Hmm... then again, Clockwork Orange wasn't too long and I remember the Nadsat glossary as well.
I'm in the camp of those who don't care how big the book is but how well the material is presented. That said, I can generally devour a single book of about 300 pages in an afternoon if left to myself so I either prefer bigger books or more of them. Terry Pratchett's Discworld series is a perennial favorite, but my all-time favorite single book is less than 300 pages - Harper Lee's To Kill A Mockingbird.
Two more suggestions on books to help you write:
Zen and the Art of Writing by Ray Bradbury
The First Five Pages by Noah LukemanThe first is great for inspiration; the second helps hone the craft.
I look forward to seeing your work, too. :)
"So it took an eight-year-old child to bring 'em to their senses.... That proves something - that a gang of wild animals can be stopped, simply because they're still human. Hmp, maybe we need a police force of children." -- Atticus Finch
When writing an Xbox game recently, I was working off the game company owner's notes (English isn't his first language but he has a deep understanding of literature) and I asked him, "Are you looking for a Terry Pratchett feel?" He responded, "EXACTLY!" It was easy to sail through scenework after that because I just had to ask myself, What Would Pratchett Do?
Neither length nor font size are a consideration for me normally. They would only be a consideration if I were choosing a book for a specific occasion. But, I'm an academic, and much of my reading is either academic or its primary source material ranging from late antiquity to 19th century...so, probably not a good person to ask, unless you're shooting for oddness.
I never shoot at the odd. If I did I might shoot myself in the foot. The odd foot, that is.
For me there's only one consideration with a long book (or series). 'Will the ending be worth it?'
I've read some standalone novels (Idoru, by William Gibson) where I was completely let down by a limp ending, and some five book series (Reality Dysfunction/Neutronium Alchemit/Naked God by Peter Hamilton) where I loved 4.75 books of them and then wanted to hunt down and beat the author with a spoon for the end of the last book.
I'm reluctant to name names... but I've arrived at the end of some tragically long novels only to discover deus ex machina or a contrived resolve. Some very famous writers make practice of, IMO, botching their endings.
It's vital, IMO, that any long novel, or series of novels in particular, have *some* continuity seeded throughout it. The ending absolutely has to be thought out and carved in stone.
On the one hand, the foreshadowing has to be subtle enough or clever enough that the ending isn't telegraphed and the reader doesn't feel like he's got to read another 600 pages to see what he's already figured out. Ideally, the reader will be able to go back through the book and smack his head repeatedly going, 'Oh yeah! Now I see what she meant!' or 'That's why he smelled roses!' Re-reading such a book is a delight, as you get to see all of the little clues that you missed, that, individually, would never have have given away the ending, but, after reading that ending, lend a sense of consistency and versimilitude to the journey.
I hear you. As a reader you begin to learn the formulas and so telegraphed endings can ruin a book even a single page in! I'm so happy when I actually get fooled by a twist in a book or movie because it happens so seldomly.
On the other hand, there's very little in reading that bugs me more than 'figuring out' a cool ending based on all of the foreshadowing, and then having the author pull a completely different ending out of their butt that doesn't relate to *any* of the background stuff they've been talking about for two to five books now.
I love when writers write for me, the experienced reader, and throw out red herrings designed to fool us. You easily accomplish that without troubling the story for readers of lesser experience and I wish more writers would.
When I was younger and didn't realy have any money I always bought books with as many pages as possible for as low a price as possible. Nowadays I buy anything that looks cool.
I'm a sucker for the packaging. Magdalena said she was annoyed by the way some books have blurbs and reviews on the back instead of a book summary. Put me firmly in her camp. That's said, show me a cool cover and yeah, I'm dipping in and taking a look. I've the predilections of a crow.
For the most part page count isn't a factor for me. Reading is a joy, sadly one that I don't always have time for. But as soon as I own the book I can pick it up when I like.
Some people are utterly unaffected by page count. Others find that page count is the thing that makes them reach or not reach for a book before they know anything about it. Since the unaffected crowd is "in the bag" if the book is good, I'm trying to ascertain how to maximize a book's appeal when first mapping it out. Perhaps that's commerce over art, but hey... paying the mortgage never anyone, right?
I had a sit down with Mike Stackpole at Gen Con and this guy is taking a few slams for writing these small soap opera like 1000 word story installments. Thing is, that form is really taking off for him. His writing is almost like old serial scripts, and each chapter leaves off in both action and relationship cliffhangers. In his estimation, shorter seems to be better for the emerging market of readers.
Put me down for a pre-production autographed copy with a picture of you as a baby for a bookmark.
How strange will it seem when I honor that... all the way down to the babymark? How appropriate for a novel writing career in its infancy... plus the chance that it will blow chunks at regular intervals. ;)
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As I've been reading quite a bit more novels lately, I figure I can pitch in to help!
Most novels that I've read and enjoyed have been in the 300-400 page range, but really, I think that's just because more books are published in that range. I have nothing to back this up besides my own beliefs, but I think that between 150-400 pages, it doesn't greatly affect the consumer's opinion. I would rarely buy a book that's greater than 500 pages unless it was a classic or many people had recommended to me, or I already knew the author, etc.
What's more important in selling books, I imagine, is the short blurb detailing the story and the cover (which, contrary to the adage, people judge by all the time).
I'd say that the "sweet spot" that has been the consensus in this thread (around 300 pages or so) is a great guideline, especially if you're thinking of writing a trilogy.
That said, I wish you the best of luck with your novel writing, and if it gets published, you'd better let us all know so we can all go out and buy 10 copies! :)
As I've been reading quite a bit more novels lately, I figure I can pitch in to help!
Most novels that I've read and enjoyed have been in the 300-400 page range, but really, I think that's just because more books are published in that range. I have nothing to back this up besides my own beliefs, but I think that between 150-400 pages, it doesn't greatly affect the consumer's opinion. I would rarely buy a book that's greater than 500 pages unless it was a classic or many people had recommended to me, or I already knew the author, etc.
What's more important in selling books, I imagine, is the short blurb detailing the story and the cover (which, contrary to the adage, people judge by all the time).
I'd say that the "sweet spot" that has been the consensus in this thread (around 300 pages or so) is a great guideline, especially if you're thinking of writing a trilogy.
That said, I wish you the best of luck with your novel writing, and if it gets published, you'd better let us all know so we can all go out and buy 10 copies! :)
Thanks for the feedback and kind words, Nameless! It sounds like you and I have very similar preferences when taking a book off the shelf. The pagecounts publishers are willing to pay for are of primary importance, but what readers want strikes me as equally vital information.