Is there some good reason that WotC's online content is divided between Dungeon and Dragon?
I'm curious why they didn't put all the material under one title.
Yep, I agree, this is the only reason they are separate. WOTC really angered a lot of people by dropping the printed magazines to begin with. I'm one of them. This alone is all it took for them to lose me as a customer, and once I get angery, nothing changes that. My decisions are final. But then I have almost a complete collection. Once I had started collecting I never missed an issue plus I bought used issues, with my oldest going back to like issue #5, #7, somewhere in there. Ok, I need to stop now or I shall go on to a rant and I am tryng so hard not to do that anymore. Wow, didn't take much to rile me up.
I'd assume for the same reason they were always divided. Dungeon mostly has modules/DM tools, while Dragon caters to all gamers. From what I've seen so far, both online versions continue in this trend, with Dungeon putting out modules and DM help articles while Dragon has more generalized articles.
Cheers! :)
PS: Eilieen, I know how you feel about collecting. When my wife let me know I had lost pretty much all of AoW because of Katrina, I was really sad. :(
My thoughts were just to help categorize online information, as its always been. Player information is in Dragon, DM information is in Dungeon. Easy.
Yep, I agree, this is the only reason they are separate. WOTC really angered a lot of people by dropping the printed magazines to begin with. I'm one of them. This alone is all it took for them to lose me as a customer, and once I get angery, nothing changes that. My decisions are final. But then I have almost a complete collection. Once I had started collecting I never missed an issue plus I bought used issues, with my oldest going back to like issue #5, #7, somewhere in there. Ok, I need to stop now or I shall go on to a rant and I am tryng so hard not to do that anymore. Wow, didn't take much to rile me up.
You do realize that it wasn't in Wizard's best interest to keep the print magazines, right? I really don't understand why this got people so angry.
Yes I realize that it may not have been in Wizards best interest but I'm not looking out for the best interest of WOTC, just as they are not looking out for mine. They are a company and they will produce what is in their best interest. I am a consumer so I will purchase what is in my best interest. WOTC eliminating the printed version of the magazines was not in my best interest which did not make me as a happy consumer. Why did it upset me? Because I had been collecting the magazine for several years as indicated above, I enjoyed it, and did not care to see it discontinued. I wanted to see the collection grow. Collections of any kind become emotionally investing. That is why I am upset!
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You do realize that it wasn't in Wizard's best interest to keep the print magazines, right? I really don't understand why this got people so angry.
That actually remains to be seen.
I've heard a lot of people say they will purchase the 4E core books to get a feel for the game. At the same time, I have not heard or read of a lot of people being excited about the DDI's current offerings. There was a lot of emotional investment tied up in those magazines and a lot of the current D&D fan base appear... less than enthusiastic when it comes to reading an electronic copy of something allegedly replacing them. Counting on a younger generation of MMO players to pick up an online subscription to READ to make up for lost customers seems a little risky to me, but I don't have the market research that's been trumpeted as justifying the decision... Then again, neither does anyone else outside of WoTC.
As for the dual e-zines, they probably retained them so they could hold a continuity appeal for print subscribers. Calling them Dungeon and Dragon is much more appealing that DM Only or Player Friendly.
To be honest, Dragon was fine a couple of years ago, but last issues were 50% publicity, 50% content. Not the best ration IMO.
Furthermore, I had one year subscription left for Dragon. I chose to give pathfinder a try, and I haven't regretted it.
So I was a little disappointed that Dragon (printed version) was cancelled, but it made me discover another excellent product line that I would have missed otherwise.
- Zorg
I'm not sure I agree that terminating the print editions of Dungeon and Dragon is in Wizards' best interests. I'm sure that's how they calculate it, but I just don't think it's accurate. Unfortunately, the die is cast, and that's an end to it. Time will vindicate one viewpoint or the other.
I've been following the online issues while they're still free (because hey, free stuff), and with the exception of a couple of articles which were clearly in the pipeline for the print issues, they've been uniformly abysmal. One might charitably assume that this is because the best writers have been busy on 4th edition, and the freelancers don't have access to anything to work with. Nor has there been enough turn around time. I seem to recall reading that a typical print article took something like four months from initial proposal to final draft, after which it went into the production queue.
So I expect that, some time after they open things up for submissions, the quality will pick up a bit. Perhaps a couple of the old authors will write up something truly marvelous to showcase what 4th edition can do. I expect the first genuine effort to be ready sometime early 2009. A fair while to wait for a possible return to the quality of old.
I'm sure that technically, the magazines will be a success, in the sense that nobody can prove they're not bringing in money, since they're part and parcel of the D&D Insider. But as it stands, I doubt they'll bring in new players.
I mean, honestly, is anybody who isn't already a fan ever going to see them where they are now? I'm not, once the pay-to-view curtain descends, and I am a D&D fan.
I don't want to get back in the polemic of the cancellation of these two magazines and the politics of WotC.
All i've got to say is that i miss them. Especially Dragon :(
You do realize that it wasn't in Wizard's best interest to keep the print magazines, right?
No, I do not. Nor has a convincing argument been made to that effect. Though this is getting slightly off-topic from my question, I would point out that:
1) WotC is doing X and
2) X is in WotC's best interests
are not necessarily identical statements.
I really don't understand why this got people so angry.
That's a different question. Why they're angry is pretty obvious. Whether they have a right to be angry is more debatable.
Which still leaves the question: why have two online magazines? The argument that Dungeon = DMs and Dragon = Players doesn't strike me as a well-considered reason (though it may be the answer). Why not call it all Dragon (or even eDragon) and have separate sections for DMs and players?
I'll admit it's a moot point. WotC will do what they want, but I'm still looking for method in what I deem to be madness.
And it ain't there yet.
Regards.
I'm sure that technically, the magazines will be a success, in the sense that nobody can prove they're not bringing in money, since they're part and parcel of the D&D Insider.
I think you're right.
Fact is, it would be hard for the online subscriptions to not dramatically outnumber the number of hardcopy magazines sold (which was a shockingly low number).
Couple this to:
- the fact the online subscription will almost certainly generate more revenue per subscription
- the costs/overhead of paper publishing are eliminated
- all indications to date are that WotC will invest considerably less time/effort/money in Dungeon/Dragon than the magazines once enjoyed.
And as a side benefit, Dungeon and Dragon will no longer provide advertising for competitors' products (and the magazines were easily the best advertising platform for the industry).
I think this is going to be gold mine for WotC. More money for little or no work, and you screw the competition at the same time.
No, I do not. Nor has a convincing argument been made to that effect. Though this is getting slightly off-topic from my question, I would point out that:
1) WotC is doing X and
2) X is in WotC's best interestsare not necessarily identical statements.
But, I think you'll agree that the following could be accurate:
1) WotC is doing X and
2) WotC beleives X is in their best interest.
Otherwise, they wouldn't be doing it.
But, I think you'll agree that the following could be accurate... Otherwise, they wouldn't be doing it.
I agree.
Whether or not I consider all of their decisions to be sound is another discussion (and way off-topic).
Eileen, I definitely didn't mean to single you out, so I hope that wasn't the impression I gave you. I'm absolutely not trying to start a flame war, either.
I think this is going to be gold mine for WotC.
In other words, you agree that it was in WotC best interest.
...and you screw the competition at the same time.
This is what I suspected. There's this idea out there that somehow WotC was trying to screw Paizo by cancelling the magazines, and even that Paizo was becoming a threat to WotC.
I think many loyal fans of Paizo took it very personally when WotC cancelled Dungeon and Dragon. They saw it as an attack on Paizo and, by extension, themselves. I would be willing to bet a ridiculous amount of money that this is where most of the anti-4E sentiment on these boards comes from. Whether 4E is is a fantastic system or not is entirely moot. Whether the online versions of Dungeon and Dragon are any good is moot. WotC cancelled what people viewed as their magazines, so they're giving 4E and D&DI the finger and sticking with PRPG whether it's any good or not.
Dungeon and Dragon are not the only casualties of the online revolution. More and more businesses are moving online because it's convenient for the consumer, and that makes it profitable. Our society is obsessed with convenience. Don't blame WotC for the cancellation of the magazines. If you have to blame anyone, blame our cultural attitude.
Phew, I'd be careful Seb. You're tapping into a deep vent of magma over there. You never know when things might blow!
Cheers! :)
Edit: For what it's worth, I agree. I think many here have closed their mind to anything from WotC, in order to "get back" at them for taking the magazine licenses back.
Kobold Press
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It's not just convenience. As a publisher, I can see that PDF and online products are cheaper to produce, ship, and manage. MUCH cheaper. And if WotC charges $100 or $120 per year for web site access, they will make a lot of money.
The financial side is powerful for them. I think they'll find plenty of takers who want to pay for DDI access. They'll also find people who don't pay for sites. Ever.
So it's tricky. Paper magazines appeal to the collector mindset, and they have other advantages that PDFs do not.
In my case, I think it's worth doing both for Kobold Quarterly, because I'm not trying to maximize profits. In WotC's case, I think profits are more important, since their parent company and shareholders expect them, and I certainly think that the profit potential for WotC is huge.
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I don't know about getting back at WotC, but they did do something that most loyal fans of the magaznes saw as a betrayal. They announced 4th edition while that betrayal was still fresh on our minds,so of course many fans of the magazines didn't exactly welcome 4E with open arms. Even without killing the magazines, many of us are not passing on 4E just to get back at WotC. We genuinely don't like most of what we have heard about 4E, and we are disgusted with the "We have to save you from that awful 3.5 game we made for you several years ago." message that we have heard since August.
I think this is going to be gold mine for WotC.
In other words, you agree that it was in WotC best interest.
Actually, yes -- I guess I am :)
But I still want to know why they have two online magazines. It strikes me as a slightly cumbersome arrangement that continues to provoke controversy.
Name brand recognition? That's often the easiest answer to the inertia of product idenity through multiple editions/revisions.
Cheers! :)
I think many loyal fans of Paizo took it very personally when WotC cancelled Dungeon and Dragon. They saw it as an attack on Paizo and, by extension, themselves. I would be willing to bet a ridiculous amount of money that this is where most of the anti-4E sentiment on these boards comes from...
I think you're absolutely right.
I think there's room to criticize and complain, but that doesn't explain or excuse the level of vitriol sometimes seen on this board. But to be fair, some 4/e proponents have brought their own brand of hostility and arrogance, rejecting critics' arguments both reasonable and ridiculous.
But it doesn't really matter -- WotC will make lots of money and not care what I think. I probably won't buy 4/e, but that's because the changes appear to be more extensive than I'm willing to bring into our games. And they still won't care.
I feel so insignificant :P
Name brand recognition? That's often the easiest answer to the inertia of product idenity through multiple editions/revisions.
I thought of that, too. I would have thought the Dragon name would be sufficient -- it's the choice I would have made.
Am I wrong about reader attachement to Dungeon?
Eileen, I definitely didn't mean to single you out, so I hope that wasn't the impression I gave you. I'm absolutely not trying to start a flame war, either.
I understand different positions beyond just my own, though it doesn't lessen any level of disapointment or being upset. I can undertand from a bunsiness position that WOTC may hope to make more money with an on-line version versus a printed magazine. The announcement to do so as well as the 4th edition announcement was done prior to me visiting Paizo for the first time. The number of reasons I have a signficant damper on WOTC goes beyond the magazines, though this business decison was not going to win any points from me. I had already grown disappointed with 3.5 (not the game itself, but rather the company putting out the game). The numerous reasons I could give are best discussed elsewhere but I will make mention that I purchased a considerable amount of 3.5 material and most of it has yet to be used, which is a primary reason along with the cancellation of the mags which has allowed me to come to the conclusion that I am no longer a customer of WOTC.
What I said earlier about ending a collection was true. I collect other things in addition to D&D/Dragon and they are also emotionally binding. If they were to come to an end it would be upsetting as well.
I was snippy with you, I apologize for that. I get like that when I am angry and I am one of those people who once crossed are pretty unforgiving. WOTC has made a lot of decisions with D&D I don't like as well as with other products they carry the license to and eventually patience, understanding, and trust and my loyalty as a consumer come to an end. 4th editon may be a great game. Dragon and Dungeon could go on to be better than they ever were, I don't care, trust and loyalty are gone, so is the customer (ME). Life goes on. I will still game. I may go back to playing 3.5 because I have already purchased so many books. It won't be today or tommorrow but probably someday.
I've also discovered as a side benefit, that since I am no longer buying their products and playing D&D at this point, I am saving a noticeable amount of money. This is a good thing. I have found a new outlet for my RPG interests and this is a bonus. My regret....I played D&D because I loved Greyhawk. To me Greyhawk meant far more than the game itself. A bit off topic but perhaps it makes my position more understandable. So I also offer my apoligize to the OP, but as with nearly any conversation, side treks are pretty inevitable and often necessary to carry on the primary topic.
To me, I did see these as "my magazines" mine as in dear to my heart. Kinda like how some guys feel about their cars.
Name brand recognition? That's often the easiest answer to the inertia of product idenity through multiple editions/revisions.I thought of that, too. I would have thought the Dragon name would be sufficient -- it's the choice I would have made.
Am I wrong about reader attachement to Dungeon?
Personally, I find it useful to have them separated out. Getting adventures from Dragon would feel ... slightly off.
Plus, by delineating the two, players know where to stay out, and don't risk seeing some module they want to play in, not run. And DMs are able to find the stuff they want to run rapidly and efficiently.
Maybe you're just asking the wrong question though.
Why combine the two, or change the name altogether? People already want to burn down your house for deciding to make them yourself. Why prod them further?
Cheers! :)
To me, I did see these as "my magazines" mine as in dear to my heart. Kinda like how some guys feel about their cars.
This makes perfect sense to me. I used to be a loyal customer of Saturn until they changed the design of their vehicles. I didn't take it personally, and I will be the first to admit that their customer service is outstanding. However, I don't like their new design, so I don't plan on buying another Saturn anytime soon.
... Why did it upset me? Because I had been collecting the magazine for several years as indicated above, I enjoyed it, and did not care to see it discontinued. I wanted to see the collection grow. Collections of any kind become emotionally investing. That is why I am upset!
QFT Eileen. This was the first step in the path that lost me to WotC. Like you so eloquently said, it's not a logical response, but an emotional one. It's the same force that makes people send peanuts to TV executives to save the show Jericho (not that that helped much).
People get emotionally attached to things, ideas, places, just the same as they do people. Anyone who is not emotionally attached to these things always looks askance at the collector/fan. To people who didn't love the magazines it is a puzzling non-issue. For those of us who were loyal readers for decades it was a slap in the face from a company we loved.
Personally, it felt kind of like a childhood friend had died, or perhaps like my favorite rock band had broken up. Those magazines were part of my childhood, and to see another piece of my childhood become extinct (in print form) was painful. Although it didn't set me against 4e to start, it definitely made me suspicious of the new edition. Whether this was overreaction on my part I cannot tell. It is just the way I feel, and there really isn't any logical explanation for emotions.
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The announcement to do so as well as the 4th edition announcement was done prior to me visiting Paizo for the first time.
Wow. I'm surprised at this. I always thought you were one of the 'old guard', possibly because of your championing of an older campaign setting. You've got a similar number of posts to me, so you must really have been hammering them out!
I liked the profile; may I invite you to pop in for a cameo appearance in my campaign?Bob
The announcement to do so as well as the 4th edition announcement was done prior to me visiting Paizo for the first time.Wow. I'm surprised at this. I always thought you were one of the 'old guard', possibly because of your championing of an older campaign setting. You've got a similar number of posts to me, so you must really have been hammering them out!
I liked the profile; may I invite you to pop in for a cameo appearance in my campaign?Bob
I started playing D&D in 9th grade, I had an older brother who kinda sorta forced me to play with him. Fell in love with gaming right away! I started out with homebrew and moved on to Greyhawk when I found it and pretty much used it since and I did start with 1st edition. I am pretty new to forums, started last summer with Canonfire and I think in Dec. with Paizo. The reason you see a lot of posts is because I have a thread in the comics section for Legion of Super-Heroes. I would be happy to have a cameo in your campaign. Just don't kill me off ok?
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No worries about killing you off!
I think if my players suspect there's an 'Elmore-babe' living in Greyhawk City, they'll be fighting each other for the right to serenade her.
I intend to use official handouts whenever possible, but I find it funny that we tend to associate many of the avatars here with specific posters. I don't know whether to alter some handouts accordingly, else I'll go "THIS fine figure is your mentor...", and be met with "What? That's your PC from last campaign!". Or "You need to investigate THIS guy...", and I get "Holy crap! It's Grimcleaver!".
So I'll probably shuffle a few things, insert a few Greyhawk Easter Eggs for the old-school players. I thought it might be amusing for them to need a sage, I could tell them "There's always The Prophet of Istus...her name is Eileen...", and see if I get a funny look.
LOL
Sounds like a lot of fun, let me know what their reaction is.
The announcement to do so as well as the 4th edition announcement was done prior to me visiting Paizo for the first time.Wow. I'm surprised at this. I always thought you were one of the 'old guard', possibly because of your championing of an older campaign setting. You've got a similar number of posts to me, so you must really have been hammering them out!
I liked the profile; may I invite you to pop in for a cameo appearance in my campaign?Bob
Plus she wields a VERY mean +5 pump! Watch your head if you upset her! ~rubs my bandaged head and winces~
So I'll probably shuffle a few things, insert a few Greyhawk Easter Eggs for the old-school players. I thought it might be amusing for them to need a sage, I could tell them "There's always The Prophet of Istus...her name is Eileen...", and see if I get a funny look.
LOL
So long as one of them doesn't repsond with "Oh, Come on!"
::Ducks the thrown cushions and obligatory eye rolls::
So I'll probably shuffle a few things, insert a few Greyhawk Easter Eggs for the old-school players. I thought it might be amusing for them to need a sage, I could tell them "There's always The Prophet of Istus...her name is Eileen...", and see if I get a funny look.
LOLSo long as one of them doesn't repsond with "Oh, Come on!"
::Ducks the thrown cushions and obligatory eye rolls::
Come of Eileen is my theme song! We all have theme songs right?
I thought it might be amusing for them to need a sage, I could tell them "There's always The Prophet of Istus...her name is Eileen...", and see if I get a funny look.
LOL
Does this count as a spoiler? I've put one in.
Matt
See above; case in point re making assumptions about avatars...
You look like a right wrong'un, Matt.
Slit his mother's throat for a sixpence, I bet.
It's the deep set eyes isn't it? I knew I should've gone for a OOTS image.
At least I'm not represented by a machine that was used to boil women and children in Ancient Times(tm)
Blech!
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I don't know what you mean <>
I'm currently in gainful employment as a tea-urn, wafting the pleasing aroma of calming camomile from my lovingly-carved nostrils. An intricate system of tubes and valves allow me to adjust the strength and temperature, to tailor your cuppa to your precise holistic needs.
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I thought it might be amusing for them to need a sage, I could tell them "There's always The Prophet of Istus...her name is Eileen...", and see if I get a funny look.
LOL
A funny look would be the first thing you would get... a complete lack of trust in any info gained would be next...
Oh, now you've gone and upset poor Eileen, haven't you?
I'm sure they're not all bad...maybe you'd change your mind about visiting her if you saw her Canonfire avatar (Hoochie Mama!).I forgot you had a bad experience in 'Fate of Istus'!
As did I...nearly punched the king and renounced my oath to Heironeous, if I recall. I was steaming after that session, totally intended to convert to a 'proper' order like the Cuthbertines, at least they take these situations seriously.
I'd wiped out all memory of you being in that adventure! LOL
I assumed since we already had my paladin, you would have had no reason to be in the game...
Though I believe my paladins are a tad more 'Bruce Wayne' to your 'Kal-El', to say the least...same could be said for our current PCs!
I thought it might be amusing for them to need a sage, I could tell them "There's always The Prophet of Istus...her name is Eileen...", and see if I get a funny look.
LOL
A funny look would be the first thing you would get... a complete lack of trust in any info gained would be next...
Snorter then wrote:
Oh, now you've gone and upset poor Eileen, haven't you?
I'm sure they're not all bad...maybe you'd change your mind about visiting her if you saw her Canonfire avatar (Hoochie Mama!).
You guys talk like I'm not even standing here listening to your conversation. Hello, wow do I feel invisible. Snorter, thank you for the kind words on my avatar. I also promise to not sway any characters within your world with bad advice.
Matt...Trust me, I know what's best for you. If I tell you something is going to happen or you should do a particular thing, then you should do it. I would not sway you wrong on your destiny regardless how how terrible your life is going to be in the future.
Though I believe my paladins are a tad more 'Bruce Wayne' to your 'Kal-El', to say the least...same could be said for our current PCs!
Sorry to dip into the middle of a conversation, but how can paladins be like bruce wayne? that makes no sense. Next your be telling me that your paladin multi-classes with ninja . . . ;)
You do realize that it wasn't in Wizard's best interest to keep the print magazines, right? I really don't understand why this got people so angry.
Why the hell do I care what WotC's best interests are? I hope they go out of business now, and all those losers working there lose their jobs.
My best interest is for you to give me all your money. Please send me your contact information.
You do realize that it wasn't in Wizard's best interest to keep the print magazines, right? I really don't understand why this got people so angry.
I don't give a rat's backside what's in WotC's best interests. For that matter, I don't give a rat's backside what's in Paizo's best interests, either. Losing the print mags wasn't in MY best interests, and that's why I got angry.
Besides which, the new mags suck. Hard. They're little more than 4e hype for the most part, and they can't even be downloaded in neat little self-contained units as we were promised. What little content they contain is inferior, too, and completely irrelevant to my game.
Don't even try to suggest that "I can always pick out the good parts and adapt them to my campaign". If I wanted to waste my time that way I'd just glean what I needed from various messageboards. I want big, useful chunks of content that don't need to be adapted. I have a business, a family, and various other responsibilities. Who has time to pick through a magazine just on the off chance that there may be a sentence or two that I can use? Not every gamer is a single male with no real responsibilities or purpose in life.
I don't give a rat's backside what's in WotC's best interests. For that matter, I don't give a rat's backside what's in Paizo's best interests, either. Losing the print mags wasn't in MY best interests, and that's why I got angry.
You might have lost the physical product, but they are still available in digital format.
Besides which, the new mags suck. Hard. They're little more than 4e hype for the most part, and they can't even be downloaded in neat little self-contained units as we were promised. What little content they contain is inferior, too, and completely irrelevant to my game.
You arent paying for them, so why do you think you deserve over a half-year's worth of content for free? When the actual, real DDI rolls out next month, it will likewise be free, giving you some time to see what you could potentially be paying for.
Don't even try to suggest that "I can always pick out the good parts and adapt them to my campaign". If I wanted to waste my time that way I'd just glean what I needed from various messageboards. I want big, useful chunks of content that don't need to be adapted. I have a business, a family, and various other responsibilities. Who has time to pick through a magazine just on the off chance that there may be a sentence or two that I can use? Not every gamer is a single male with no real responsibilities or purpose in life.
So, what? You want loads of free content that will be perfectly suited just for you? Sounds pretty unreasonable to me. Not that I got this treatment when Paizo was handling Dragon and Dungeon. Sure, it was larger chunks of stuff, but very little of it was what I would call useful.
I think the most use I got out of either subscription was the Age of Worms adventure path: in that case roughly a third of Dungeon saw regular use, and a small portion of Dragon where the Wormfood articles actually meshed well.
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I don't give a rat's backside what's in WotC's best interests. For that matter, I don't give a rat's backside what's in Paizo's best interests, either. Losing the print mags wasn't in MY best interests, and that's why I got angry.
You might have lost the physical product, but they are still available in digital format.
Besides which, the new mags suck. Hard. They're little more than 4e hype for the most part, and they can't even be downloaded in neat little self-contained units as we were promised. What little content they contain is inferior, too, and completely irrelevant to my game.
You arent paying for them, so why do you think you deserve over a half-year's worth of content for free? When the actual, real DDI rolls out next month, it will likewise be free, giving you some time to see what you could potentially be paying for.
Don't even try to suggest that "I can always pick out the good parts and adapt them to my campaign". If I wanted to waste my time that way I'd just glean what I needed from various messageboards. I want big, useful chunks of content that don't need to be adapted. I have a business, a family, and various other responsibilities. Who has time to pick through a magazine just on the off chance that there may be a sentence or two that I can use? Not every gamer is a single male with no real responsibilities or purpose in life.
So, what? You want loads of free content that will be perfectly suited just for you? Sounds pretty unreasonable to me. Not that I got this treatment when Paizo was handling Dragon and Dungeon. Sure, it was larger chunks of stuff, but very little of it was what I would call useful.
I think the most use I got out of either subscription was the Age of Worms adventure path: in that case roughly a third of Dungeon saw regular use, and a small portion of Dragon where the Wormfood articles actually meshed well.
I used to pay for them, for the content, I got both issues...WotC's new online version is a joke...and bad for the industry. Why is it bad for the industry? Oh because a few reasons:
1. No place for companies to advertise
2. Dragon and Dungeon used to have a presence in major bookstores, a possibility for people to get interested in the game.
3. The digital format has alienated long-term players. It also alienates those without computers.
As far as useful material from Paizo's Dragon/Dungeon magazines, The magazines were chock full of useful material. I especially loved the little articles in the back of the Dungeon magz.
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You might have lost the physical product, but they are still available in digital format.
Yeah, only less frequently, you can't download them in one piece, and even disregarding that, the content sucks.
You arent paying for them, so why do you think you deserve over a half-year's worth of content for free? When the actual, real DDI rolls out next month, it will likewise be free, giving you some time to see what you could potentially be paying for.
We don't deserve that much free content. It's advertising; it's their attempt to sell the final product, and they haven't painted a very good picture of it thus far. Frankly, what I've seen so far is not even worth the time it takes to download.
And it won't be "the actual real DDI" next month either because they won't have the majority of the features activated yet. When they do, they'll make us pay. It's supposed to be a beta, but it's got less substance from what I've seen than the Pathfinder Alpha.
So, what? You want loads of free content that will be perfectly suited just for you? Sounds pretty unreasonable to me. Not that I got this treatment when Paizo was handling Dragon and Dungeon. Sure, it was larger chunks of stuff, but very little of it was what I would call useful.
Meanwhile DDI has given us small chunks of completely useless stuff, on the basis of which they expect us to buy DDI when the full version comes out. Perfectly reasonable.
I think the most use I got out of either subscription was the Age of Worms adventure path: in that case roughly a third of Dungeon saw regular use, and a small portion of Dragon where the Wormfood articles actually meshed well.
So was the rest of Dungeon just blank paper during this period? Wow, my copies must have been full of typos. You know, your argument works to ways. If I can't complain because DDI isn't useful to everyone, you can't complain because part of Dungeon wasn't useful to you.