RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
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I am so psyched to see the new Bard. I loves me the Bard; it's a one-character adventuring party. And I would second the idea of song talents, maybe giving the old bard the chance to either diversify or focus on a certain aspect.
I also once floated the idea that since the bard is such a jack-of-all-trades, giving him the option of taking lesser forms of other classes' talents, such as a bonus fighter feat, a wiz/sorc spell he can cast as a bard spell, a +1d6 sneak attack, some sort on monkly talent, lesser rage 1/day or the ability to take a clerical domain. it would give him the range to become whatever he needed to be.
Oh, and for the love of Golarion, give the poor bugger some new Bard only spells or sonic damage spells. If he's the master of sound, he should be able to, I dunno, use them!
Sounds like you're looking for the bard to look more like the factotum class or the chameleon PrC.
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I'm not even sure this is the right thread, and it doesn't matter as certain opinions of mine would break the backwards compatibility rule, but:
Frankly, I think Bards have gotten the D&D shaft. From the very beginning, I don't think developers knew what to do with the class, and I think it comes from not knowing its origins.
The bard comes from the Vates, aka Ollave, or celtic traveling historian/priests. These guys were walking libraries. In a time with no written records, it was their duty to keep track of everything. So they travelled from village to village, getting the news and carrying messages like a later day Pony Express/Journalist. They were often treated as part of the religious caste and a bard arriving in town was something to be celebrated. He was always offered an opulant place to stay (you were not allowed to say no) and a hefty meal.
And, with the roads so dangerous, they had to be experienced at protecting themselves and surviving. They also tended to keep the history in prose and verse, as it helped memorization.
So...
Combat, Woodland Survival Skills, Performing Arts, Lore, and Priestly duties. So, my suggestion is to give them Survival as a class skill, beef their combat a little, make their magic divine instead of arcane, and grant them access to the same spell list as the ranger.
So yeah, Jack of all Trades really does sum it up. I'm by no means an expert, but I think I covered most of it.
I could also be completely wrong, and I'm sure someone will point out where I'm going astray.
So...
Combat, Woodland Survival Skills, Performing Arts, Lore, and Priestly duties. So, my suggestion is to give them Survival as a class skill, beef their combat a little, make their magic divine instead of arcane, and grant them access to the same spell list as the ranger.So yeah, Jack of all Trades really does sum it up. I'm by no means an expert, but I think I covered most of it.
I could also be completely wrong, and I'm sure someone will point out where I'm going astray.
I'm seconding you in everything here, except the divine spells part. While their 'de facto' priestly duties is completely true, divine powers just don't go well with the class' flavor. Also the bard's historical priestly duties where more secular than actually religious ones, they were more like magistrates, teachers and heralds than actual priests, so they wouldn't need a strong devotional aspect to match with divine spells. Celtic people also didn't put much of a disctinction between 'magic' and 'divine miracles' the way we judeochristian people do, so the line is blurry here. Folklore tales are rife with wizards, witches and druids, and the distinction were more institutional/organizational than metaphisical/religious.
All in all, great set of insights. :D
Regards,
ZOOROOS
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I'm seconding you in everything here, except the divine spells part. While their 'de facto' priestly duties is completely true, divine powers just don't go well with the class' flavor. Also the bard's historical priestly duties where more secular than actually religious ones, they were more like magistrates, teachers and heralds than actual priests, so they wouldn't need a strong devotional aspect to match with divine spells. Celtic people also didn't put much of a disctinction between 'magic' and 'divine miracles' the way we judeochristian people do, so the line is blurry here. Folklore tales are rife with wizards, witches and druids, and the distinction were more institutional/organizational than metaphisical/religious.All in all, great set of insights. :D
Regards,
ZOOROOS
Thank you for the compliment. There's definitely not enough positive encouragement going around these forums, so you made my day.
You're absolutely right, a divine change doesn't fit in with the "mood" past editions have given the class. I also don't see an Ollave as a high adventurer, anyway. I just wanted to hopefully put into perspective why we keep hearing "the bard just doesn't feel right as a class" by showing where it came from and what it's missing.
AND we already have four core classes with divine spells and three arcane. Switching the bard would make it 5 to 2. But that's a mechanics arguement.
Then again, I have issues with Rangers and Paladins having divine spells, anyway.
Oh, and I did make a mistake. Vates was the name of the religious social class, not the bard specifically.
Ok, rambling now.
Then again, I have issues with Rangers and Paladins having divine spells, anyway.
Wow, we're on the same page, you and I...
But that's a subject for another thread, true. :P
Regards,
ZOOROOS