The 'good guys' (aka the side the pcs are on) is an alliance between several powers/tribes including: humans, lizardfolk, hobgoblins (and goblin, orc, bugbear subjects and allies), and 3 chromatic dragons (a blue, a black and a green).
The 'bad guys' are evil elves (I don't really use Drow as written up--these are vengeance driven elves who want to destroy the 'younger races' for ruining their forest homes), Grimlocks, Meenlocks, Derro mercenaries and summoned demons.
The problem is that the evil elves have created a haven for themselves underground. Unable to use former forest allies they have begun breeding up vermin to use as war material. They stage raids and then retreat beneath the surface again.
What I'd like are some ideas about this war. The following things are ideas I'm working on:
1. Uneasy alliance--the human republic, lizardfolk tribes and the goblinoid/human worshippers of Tiamat are in an alliance of necessity, not of Tolkienesque 'good guys versus bad guys'. What issues might come up, what difficulties might ensue?
2. Manner of warfare--how might the surface dwellers plan to wage such a war? Raiding parties? Establishment of zones of control that gradually converge?
3. Style of warfare--what unusual means of fighting and tactics would have to develop for the surface dwellers to be effective? How might the underground dwellers best confuse and destroy those who want to destroy them?
4. Magic particular to underground warfare. Does anyone have any good ideas about this? It seems to me that in particular magics that can manipulate rock, cause confusion, damage light or vision would be particularly effective, but any other ideas would be appreciated. On the other hand what would the surface dwellers do?
The 'gud guys' (aka the side the pcs are on) is an alliance between several pouirs/trbes including: humans, lizardfolk, , (and goblin, orc, bugbear subjects and allis)hobgoblins and 3 chromatic dragons (a blooe, a black and a green).
The 'badd guys' are evel elves (I don't really use Drou as written up--these are vengeance driven elves who want to destroy the 'younger rases' for ruining their forst homes), Grimlocks, Meenlocks, Derro mercenaries and sumoned demins...
You should put kblds on one of those lists, whether it be 'badd guys' or 'gud guys'. Not doing so would be a downright insult to us kblds.
*Rapidly edits trying to find spot that triggered curse*
*Determines that Tetr has put permanency on the polymorph other*
*Rapidly edits trying to find spot that triggered curse*
*Determines that Tetr has put permanency on the polymorph other*
*Is confused*
Elves. Dragons. Gnomes.
Elves. Dragons. Gnomes.
MrFish.
Confuse-a-kobold!
'Mrfish'? I can't say 'Mrfish'?
Tetr, have you starting listening to those voices in your head?
Which list would you recommend? And why?
Sorry about the threadjack. I think the idea is great.
It still needs kobolds.
Heathansson: good idea about the spying and difficulties! I think especially having lawful evil/chaotic evil troops around that will be tricky. (hobgoblins and orcs) On the other hand at higher levels there might be duels and intrigues, yes?
Leotillo: thanks those are good ideas too. I love the idea of the underground folks luring others into traps and into stringing out their supply lines, that makes a lot of sense.
Perhaps the initial surface commanders might not recognize the need for zones of control--they might try sending in an expedition just to search and destroy. I'm thinking of a possible fiasco where either the pcs have to take over a mission entirely to save their skins or else the adventure is trying to escape destruction and then in a following on the commander is replaced by another with more sense.
Does the idea of having one dragon per major area work? It seems to me that since I have three major environments (rocky hills, swamp country and forest) that that would work well, one dragon for each area.
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Small recon units go into the holes.
Is this place the Underdark, with caves for miles and miles?
Send special forces in (rangers, adventurers) to find where the elves live. Good guy elves could go in like green berets to scout the place out AND seek out possible friendlies. IDK what your hostile elves' society is like, but I know if I sent green berets into Erelhei Cinlu there's lotsa downtrodden slaves and client peoples who would be happy to help the surfacedwellers wipe out the drow. Surface elves would also be great plants if they look like the hostile elves.
Finally, the VietCong had miles of tunnelworks all over South Vietnam. They had guys called "tunnel rats" they'd send in there; usually the shortest g.i.'s they could find. Kobolds would be ideal for that kind of work, so would halflings and gnomes; it all depends on how big the caverns or tunnels are as to whether or not it matters.
For aboveground protection, they'll need light cavalry, and a system of watchtowers/signal system of some sort. You need to watch as much area as you can for raiding parties, and have a crew of fast hitters for when a raiding party is spotted.
Also need to find all the tunnel openings.
Intel from special forces in the hostiles' home base can help in this instance too.
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3. Recon units to scout and find where the enemy lives.
THEN, you need to send small units in to their city to raise havoc--take out the infrastructure. Attack their food supply however possible. Make them sweat bad, before an overwhelming main body comes in. You don't want the main army marching in there setting off boobytraps as they go. You want all that figured out and neutralized, and the enemy's city under stress beforehand.
First thing I would do is move the Black dragons from the good side to the bad side. I have never heard of a good black dragon. Some races like the lizard folk and the bugbears I would leave as neutral, they wont help either side but will attack either side that gets to near to there area. So maybe you can have the PC try to get the neutral races to join there alliance. I would add some more races to the evil Elfs side, maybe driders of shadow dragons or fang or deep dragons. The PC's would have to be divided up between parties that protect the supply lines and out post and the rest of the PC's would be part of Platoons that attack the underground post held by the evil elfs. Or you can do somthing I did in a campaign and that is to have the PC's find away to seal the underdark from the surface world. That would seal in the evil elfs. Let me know how the campaign goes, it sounds like somthing I might want to do with my group.
The savage races you mentioned (the ones worshipping Tiamat) will serve as excellent scouts into the underground area, since they all have darkvision. They might even use this to their advantage since the elves most likely lack the ability to see naturally in the dark (though Grimlock sentries would certainly help them). A key tactic would be to figure out a way to confuse the grimlocks' blindsight ability and then snuff out the elves' light sources. One must think of a way to deal with the insects as well... perhaps some sort of chemical attack like pheremones or pesticide.
Leozillo: sorry, man! there is a paladin in the party but in a way I kind of want that as a challenge--how to curb the behavior of evil troops as allies? It may even end up that the pcs decide to find a way to end the alliance altogether, but I want that to be challenging to do. (though not impossible)
As for the dragons--one dragon is a Tiamat worshipper and a senior leader of the cult--(this is the Green one) and so probably sees itself as the leader of the goblinoid and human cultists. Another is the black, which is the lizardfolks' 'god' and acts to protect them in exchange for tribute. The third is the blue which has an alliance with the human republic. So perhaps these are actually if not commanders have a perceived command role?
I had a bit of a backstory for this: I was thinking that perhaps these dragons, which are all young, might be using this war as an excuse not to fight one another till they're ready as their territories converge.
Heathansson: those are really good ideas, which I appreciate. I think that the pcs are the ideal people to lead scouting and raiding parties, while I'll give them the zone of control as suggested (at some point) to fall back to. I may have it done badly the first few times just to make them appeciate it later on.
I may give the pcs a chance to recruit kobolds or gnomes (probably gnomes as I have them in the game already and the pcs know of them and are friendly to them).
Drac: I like your ideas as well. I may then leave the black dragon out of it altogether if I go with that, at least at first. Perhaps a truce needs to be worked out between two of the dragons? BTW the 'good guys' are not exactly 'good'. While some of the pcs are the nation they belong to is actually lawful neutral; as long as the alliance works they prefer to look the other way. The pcs may see things very differently of course.
Sealing the underdark off is not at all a bad idea--or finding something anyway to stop the very source of the attacks. I also very much like your idea about the elves--hm...deep dragons might be interesting, since the pcs have never heard of them. However...driders. I've always loved driders, I don't quite know why but spider-centaurs is a truly cool idea.
Evil Genius: Yes, I like the ideas you present too. I think the elves will either have developed a couple of Drow like abilities (perhaps as part of a pact with a demon prince or something) or else they will use Grimlocks almost as hunting and guard dogs. Maybe druids will be needed to help deal with the insects.
Depending on how much magic you want:
Flooding the tunnels
Then freezing them
or then conjuring water elementals
Conjuring Earth Elementals/Mephits
Disintegrate to weaken large section of wall
Earthquake
For the bad elves- TRAPS. And lots of them. Pit traps, spike raps, magic traps, cave ins, false doors, dead ends. Use some illusions to lead scouts astray and way off track. I'm a fan of pit traps dropping into gelatinous cubes, or various slimes.
The elves know the terrain very well and should use that. Luring excursions into ambushes.
As for the 'good' guys, remember they do not like each other. Only necessity keeps them together. They may start jockeying for power plays and positioning before the war completely ends. So like Heath said, spies galore. Even within their own groups, evil races are, well... Evil. Have them act it. Assassinate rivals and all that fun.
I try to use magic in my game lately as a way of having elements of modern style warfare in the game. So yes, I like the idea of using mephits and elementals, conjuring even weather underground if possible.
And yeah, traps are good--any good trap threads I could be linked to?
I have been trying to think about orcs and hobgoblins and how they might demonstrate their evil. A few thoughts:
1. No chivalry; hobgoblins may have a kind of code of honour but it won't include risking themselves unecessarily. orcs may just shoot truce bearers down with arrows or torture envoys. Both will be very cruel to prisoners. They might bully and even attack civilians in friendly areas that don't give them prices they want or who irritate them.
2. Chauvinistic. Orcs from what I understand think of females as breeders--and since they can breed with anything...
3. arrogant. Hobgoblins pound for pound are superior to the average human (though not the average adventurer necessarily) and so may have a grudging respect to pcs and npc leaders but not to rank and file and especially not ordinary citizens. I'm picturing them as being like stereotypical samurai in a way--willing to cut off a head for a gesture of disrespect.
4. Slavery. The humans of the republic might find the chattel style slavery of the humanoids repugnant. Especially since they also have human subjects who pay tribute to them.
5. Tree hostility. While the humans are trying to avoid provoking the good elves too much by burning and hacking down trees in the main forested area the humanoids might not be so nice about it. This may cause hostility with the good elves who are neutral in this conflict.
First Adventure:
The town of Jedes; the human soldiers of the republic and their supporters gather here. Messengers constantly ride, use magic or fly south to the gathering humanoid camps near the free town of Haven.
Bryn Lann, the commander appointed by the Republic, is uneasy. There are several reasons for this. The first is that he's treading on the toes a little of the local landlords (the pcs) who have politely bowed to his seniority but he is aware of the fact that they have far more experience of battling strange and weird creatures than he has. The second is his allies. Orcs and goblinoids...can they be trusted? And on top of that he has the blue dragon who lives under the ruined tower not far from Jedes to think of. While she was raised by one of the adventurers and is still very young can she be trusted? Of course, implicitely, say the great heroes who now rule this area. As long as we're around...
Sentries and patrols have been posted. There is much to do--for one thing they are waiting for certain druids and wood elves to come to make sure that the trees of the great forest to the west do not awaken in anger and that fae creatures do not see them as simply bringing a traditional enemy in to their destruction. For another materials are gathering that will be used for the mines. Though planking, beams, stone and mortar and other goods are nearby they are designated for the great keep being built in the area, and while the paladin responsible would gladly release them her orders forbid her to.
As he ponders he sees a rider galloping towards him. The rider is anxious; his horse is lathered. An awful report--giant vermin--beetles, centipedes and other horrors--big enough to carry off a calf or ram--have attacked one of the manor farms, dozens of them!
Lann is barely able to suppress a groan--the enemy have struck the first blow...
The first adventure will involve the elves having sent swarms of giant vermin that they've tamed into the human and humanoid areas, striking mostly at livestock and foodstuffs. The objective of course is to prevent this, search and destroy the nests. Part of the trick though will be this: in my setting this is a rare event. Generally giant vermin exist through magic one way or another. The real enemy is a small group of elves using various magics to make a bug army, then have it vanish down to normal size.