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I'd like share an idea about sneak attack with you.
Sneak attack works always (as Alpha says) except monsters with a new defense similar to Fortification Special Armor Ability. It is necessary to add this new defense to each monster individually.
*Heavy fortification: 100% to ignore criticals & sneak
Elementals, Oozes, Incorporeal undead & Other creatures without anatomy
*Moderate fortification: 75% to ignore criticals & sneak
Constructs & Golem-like creatures such as skeletons or liches
*Light fortification: 25% to ignore criticals & sneak
Plant creatures & and most of the corporeal undead such as vampires or zombies
*No fortification: 0% to ignore criticals & sneak
Corpse-like creatures such as ghouls that are organical creatures (diggestive system for ghouls, etc)
Add to each monster on new MM an appropiate defense vs sneaks & criticals and it's perfectly backwards compatible with 3.5 Edition. Sneak attack is improved but not overpowered.
Cheers!
Thanks to Paizo for the release!!!!
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It's kind of backwards-compatable, but you need to remember to alter all the monsters.
That's the idea. Its only add a word to each one in the new Paizo's Monster Manual next to undead/construct/elemental/plant/ooze traits. And works to each monster individually, not by type or subtype. An skeleton would be different of a zombie in respect to sneak without any additional work. This, sneak attack (& critical attacks) is more effective than in 3.5 but not overpowered as now is write in 3P.
What I did in my game, is require the sneak attacker to have 5 ranks in Knowledge (arcana) to sneak attack constructs, 5 ranks in Knowledge (religion) to sneak attack undead, etc.
It's a good idea too. But using it, an skeleton and a shadow are both undead and equally subject by sneak... by someone with the ranks in knw religion ¿do not?
Thanks for your commentary, Archade.
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My DM did an interesting thing when we were fighting a bunch of fire elementals. He had several crystals floating in the fire elementals. The DM required the rogue to make a DC 20 spot check as a free action. If He made the spot check, he spied a Crystal and then he was allowed a melee attack on one. If he hit, he struck one of the crystals and was allowed to add his sneak attack damage to his melee attack. We liked the idea, and are thinking of expanding this idea to other elementals, undead and constructs.
We will use thematic variations, but keep the mechanic the same. The DM might make the Spot DC higher or lower then 20 depending on circumstances. What do you guys think of this idea?
Sneak atack should either work or not work. Rolling an extra die every time is extremely unpleasant, especially if you have to remember to adjuse the monster blocks.
As for the crystals thing, why not dispense with the spot roll and just let him do it?
As for the crystals thing, why not dispense with the spot roll and just let him do it?
Because some people believe that allowing rogues to sneak attack at will is overpowered.
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Because some people believe that allowing rogues to sneak attack at will is overpowered.
Yes...
Another fact about my proposition that your are forgetting is that it lets do criticals to creatures inmune to critical hits. Lesser effect of sneak 3P but better than 3.5 and the fighting classes (Fighter, paladin, etc) could do more damage too than now... It is a plus for them.
Any coments?
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I did something similar, except that instead of percentages (because I hate percentage chances and absolutes), I did:
Heavy fortification: Reduces sneak attack by 15d6, crits by 3 steps (a scythe deals x1 damage on a crit, e.g.); oozes and elementals have this.
Medium fortification: Reduces sneak attacks by 10d6, crits by 2 steps; constructs and skeletal undead have this.
Light fortification: Reduces sneak attacks by 5d6, crits by one step; plants and most corporeal undead have this.
Incorporeal creatures are still completely immune to crits and sneaks.
You might be on to something here. But instead of fortification, have monster types reduce sneak attack.
For example, corporeal undead gain sneak attack reduction of 3d6 ...
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Well Orion Anderson. I suppose everyone has different experiences at the gaming table. The added spot check added an element of excitement to the fight. At first the guy playing the rogue was a bit dejected. Crap elementals what can I do? He tumbled into flanking position, and the DM had him make a spot check that he made. The DM described a glittering crystal suspended in the flames. The player said, “ well I may as well poke at that crystal, there is nothing interesting to jab my players rapier at.
So he mate his attack roll, The DM Told him that he shattered the crystal and energy was leaking out. The player interrupted “ like blood or something?” The DM replied “ something like that, add your sneak attack damage”. The player got excited and did so.
The DM explained that he saw other crystals circulating in the fire elemental some near the surface others retreating deeper into the flame monster. You will have to spot them.
The next round the player failed his spot check, he rolled a 1, but he then decided to use the aide another action, to give the fighter a +2 to hit, which stacked with the +2 flanking bonus. The fighter didn’t roll to well but the rogues “aide another” action made the difference between the fighter hitting and missing.
The next round we were all excited to see if the rogue was going to make his spot check. He did. The rogue then hit the elemental and dropped it with his sneak attack damage.
We enjoyed this added little twist, and are planning to now using this mechanic with undead and constructs. Besides you can always do something even if you can’t sneak attack.
In another game a moth or so ago, I was playing a rogue/ swashbuckler (mostly swashbuckler) with a rapier. The rogue and my character were scouting ahead as usual and we found some sort of slime in a barrel in a storeroom. My character was the idiot who punctured the barrel, and the animated ooze spilled out. The DM described that it moved like the “X files oil”
We both tried to poke it with our swords, only to find we were merely subdividing the creature. We both looked at each other and said, “ run” we ran, with the slime following us. “ Do you have a quarter staff” “ no “ “ crap how do we get rid of this thing?”
We out distanced the thing. (I don’t know weather it was an ooze slime or pudding, I only knew it wanted to eat us) Then my friend had an idea. We got out our rations, and threw some food at the creature, and then we left a trail of “ bread crumbs” from our rations to the edge of a pit trap. The creature began following. We then rushed at it, only to dash away. Then we took a running leap over the pit trap. The creature rushed after us and fell into the pit trap. Problem solved.
I know not being able to sneak attack something is frustrating, however all I am saying is this. You can always do something Here we were, unable to damage the creature, let alone sneak attack it, and we were able to come up with a solution.