Demiurge 1138 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8 |
I like what you've done to Polymorph and its kin. It works. It's streamlined, while still being flavorful and useful. It softens hands while you do the dishes.
But! And this is a big but. Some of the monster types are absent from the spells. There's no polymorphing into undead, outsiders, fey, constructs, monstrous humanoids or aberrations. The lack of undead, outsiders and constructs makes good sense to me. They're off the list as far as 3.x polymorph is concerned, and they're rather radically different from the ordinary caster that it'd take some serious magic indeed to get a person there (so are elementals, but I digress...).
Fey, though? I can see an argument made for fey, that they're also creatures of spirit like outsiders, so they should be off limits. They're borderline for me.
But monstrous humanoids? Aberrations? They're a huge part of the D&D experience! And therefore a huge part of the polymorph experience. I want my casters to be able to take on the forms of gargoyles, centaurs, minotaurs, etc. If the demented aberrant cultist wants to turn himself into a mind flayer (or convenient OGL replacement), more power to him!
My suggestion? Bring monstrous humanoids, aberrations and fey back into the polymorph fold. Fey and monstrous humanoids might be covered by, say, alter self II and III. Aberrations, though, might require their own spell, what with the diversity of body forms.
What do you think, sirs?
Sean Achterman |
I can see bringing back monstrous humanoids - but not Aberrations.
Aberrations are meant to be those things that make the mortal mind go 'ababaguh, Failed San Check'. Their biology is alien, inhuman and often incomprehensible. I don't really see a good reason to be able to turn into one outside of certain PrC's (and possibly the Aberrant sorcerer bloodline).
Epic Meepo RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32 |
I don't really mind aberrations, fey, and most of the others mentioned above being off the list. I wouldn't mind seeing monstrous humanoids added back in somewhere.
But I would really like to see it clarified that beast shape II allows to turn into a Tiny or Large animal in addition to the forms allowed by beast shape I. As written, beast shape II requires you to become only Tiny or Large, disallowing anything in between. (Other polymorph subschool spells have similar problems with wording.)
Kvantum |
The missing types has me of two minds. I can definitely see the whole "Aaaagh! Aberration, Failed SAN!!!" side of it all, but I think that with enough exposure and training (ie spell research and/or ranks in appropriate knowledge checks) there could be spells to allow shapechanging into the "missing" types.
The thing that's bugging me about the existing spells, though, is the names. "Beast Form III" isn't the most flavorful of spell names. "Greater Beast Form" isn't a whole lot better.
Jason Bulmahn Director of Games |
Demiurge 1138 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8 |
I can see bringing back monstrous humanoids - but not Aberrations.
Aberrations are meant to be those things that make the mortal mind go 'ababaguh, Failed San Check'. Their biology is alien, inhuman and often incomprehensible. I don't really see a good reason to be able to turn into one outside of certain PrC's (and possibly the Aberrant sorcerer bloodline).
Are they, though? Really? There's not much that's sanity shattering about, say, an otyugh. Or a choker. Or even mind flayers, at least at a cursory physical glance. There's things that are monstrous humanoids and magical beasts that have as inherently messed-up anatomies.
Weylin Stormcrowe 798 |
Some of the monster types are currently missing. To be honest, I wanted to make sure the concept floated before moving on to some of the others (but not all... ).
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
I am of the mind that the concept you used for the shapechanging spells not only floats but flies. I like seeing them broken into tiers and broken into types. The original polymorph spells were way to inclusive in terms of power and types. I say keep going on the concept you used, jason.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
Rhishisikk |
I concur. This makes certain that all polymorphs of the same general type gain the same bonuses. In particular, this prevents breaks like 'polymorph into an Arrow Demon'. The quest to become 'familiar' with bizarre and obscure monsters is subdued. Yay!
I see monstrous humanoids. Fey is a matter of spirit as much as form; aberrations are specifically aberrant. Constructs, undead, and outsiders I likewise have no problem with being forbidden to normal, living casters.
Or I could be cranky cause it's three in the morning and I can no longer read. Mmm, sleep...
hogarth |
I concur. This makes certain that all polymorphs of the same general type gain the same bonuses. In particular, this prevents breaks like 'polymorph into an Arrow Demon'. The quest to become 'familiar' with bizarre and obscure monsters is subdued. Yay!
No, there's still the same problem ("dumpster-diving" as K calls it) but on a smaller scale.
For instance, the spell Beast Shape IV allows you to turn into any large Magical Beast and allows you to get a breath weapon, poison, natural weapons, etc. So now you still dig out your "Tome of OMGWTFBBQ Monsters" and look for some crazy monster like the Thessalhydralisk that has 12 heads with poisonous fangs that can each breathe petrifying gas, etc.
As a real example, you can take a look at the Three-Headed Sirrush from the Epic SRD; it's a large magical beast with three bite attacks, four claw attacks, the pounce ability, resistance to all elements, etc.
Or take a look at the plain, ol' gorgon. Now instead of casting Flesh to Stone as a 6th level spell (turns one enemy to stone), you can cast Beast Shape IV as a 6th level spell to become a gorgon (turns multiple enemies to stone and can be used multiple times).
Of course the DM can restrict the exist of three-headed sirrushes or gorgons in his campaign, but I wouldn't say 'the quest for bizarre and obscure monsters is subdued' quite yet. :-)
Bradford Ferguson |
FOR THE SAKE OF D&D IN GENERAL: The tendency is to abuse polymorph. I've never seen a player use polymorph and not want to abuse it. Therefore, I think Jason is on the right track. I also agree that monstrous humanoids should be added to types.
FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR GAME: If you have players that are absolutely bent on polymorph, AND the other players at the table enjoy this... you COULD let go of the vision that you haqve for your campaign and do more of a monster hunter campaign for your players. (1) They don't know about the forms they most desire, this must be researched and even then they may not find the instance of the creature they are looking for [make it scale up] (2) The TRUE bad guys are the Polymorph Police [the gods don't want you doing this so I'm going to drain this knowledge from your brain forever, or I'm going to taint the magic and you gotta fix it).
If one player loves to break polymorph and the others do not then you either need to put your foot down and ban/limit the spell or get rid of the player (or let that player be the DM).