When are we gonna see some hellknight stats?
what have people been using to represent them til now?
I saw in one of the Pathfinder issues, on a wandering monster chart I think, that you can use 4th level fighters for some of the lower level guys. Probably give them something similar to the Gray Maidens, masterwork bastard sword and heavy shield, masterwork full plate, etc.
No clue on what the higher ranking ones would be though.
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Bah! Sure the Hellknights are cool, but what about the Bloatmages?
I've been quite fortunate in that I havn't had to actually present Hellknights as combatants yet, (my player sensibly avoided confronting them during the riots.)
Some form of sword and board type fighters I think with a smattering of other classes thrown in.
When are we gonna see some hellknight stats?
what have people been using to represent them til now?
It still might be a little while before the Hellknights get much love. While we're definitely talking about them in the campaign setting book, even that's mostly just more info on thier various orders and what not. I admit that I've been a little protective of them--I REALLY like'em. I also don't just want them to be some prestige class or fighters with a feat. Since that's all we've really had the space to do so far, we're holding off untill we can do them right.
All that being said, I just ran across a prestige class yesterday from the Unholy Warrior's Handbook called Order's Tyrant. It's not right on, but it was enough to spark the words "Hey James, check it out, there's a Hellknight prestige class in here." If you're looking for a proxy hellknight untill we finally agree on what to do with them, looking there might be a good option.
Bah! Sure the Hellknights are cool, but what about the Bloatmages?
Bloatmages, on the other hand, will see some love in Pathfinder #12. We JUST got the art in infact... GROSS!
Director of Brand Strategy
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When are we gonna see some hellknight stats?
what have people been using to represent them til now?
How about Green Ronin's Anti-Paladin handbook ?
Not used it yet, but promising .... MWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA !
Hellknights aren't necessarily anti-Paladins though. They just aren't LG. As a LN organization, they still might do many of the sae things Paladins do, they'd just be open to doing something more akin to a Blackguard if that would enable them to uphold the law better. I think that the name Hellknight is deceiving in this regard, as they are not evil. Then again, from what I've seen of them so far, they seem to lean more that way then toward the good. But that might just be the Order of the Nail.
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When are we gonna see some hellknight stats?
what have people been using to represent them til now?
It still might be a little while before the Hellknights get much love. While we're definitely talking about them in the campaign setting book, even that's mostly just more info on thier various orders and what not. I admit that I've been a little protective of them--I REALLY like'em. I also don't just want them to be some prestige class or fighters with a feat. Since that's all we've really had the space to do so far, we're holding off untill we can do them right.
All that being said, I just ran across a prestige class yesterday from the Unholy Warrior's Handbook called Order's Tyrant. It's not right on, but it was enough to spark the words "Hey James, check it out, there's a Hellknight prestige class in here." If you're looking for a proxy hellknight untill we finally agree on what to do with them, looking there might be a good option.
So what would you recommend for entry into the PrC? (again, as a stopgap, obviously.) Fighter? Knight? Crusader? Rogue?
My players are voting this week, but right now it looks like they want to play an all-Hellknight party for Curse of the Crimson Throne.
It still might be a little while before the Hellknights get much love. While we're definitely talking about them in the campaign setting book, even that's mostly just more info on thier various orders and what not. I admit that I've been a little protective of them--I REALLY like'em. I also don't just want them to be some prestige class or fighters with a feat. Since that's all we've really had the space to do so far, we're holding off untill we can do them right.
Thanks Wes, Please stay protective of them, I want to see them done right!
I'm just praying that they are going to have Hellhound companions/familiars because that was the part of the Fluff in Pathfinder 6 that really grabbed my imagination!
Bah! Sure the Hellknights are cool, but what about the Bloatmages?
I'm lookin forward to them getting some lovin too, along with the Troll Augurs, Cyphermages, devil binders, cult of Pharasma, etc, etc...
But it seemed unreasonable to ask about them all at once!
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All that being said, I just ran across a prestige class yesterday from the Unholy Warrior's Handbook called Order's Tyrant. (...)Isn't this handbook or at least part of it included in Green Ronin's "Book of Fiends"?
Greetings,
Günther
Does anyone know if "Order's Tyrant" is covered in the Book of Fiends, too?
I know that the Book of Fiends describes part of what was previously covered in the 3.0e Unholy Warrior's Handbook. Does it include this specific class, though?
Thanks for your feedback!
Kr,
Günther
My players are voting this week, but right now it looks like they want to play an all-Hellknight party for Curse of the Crimson Throne.
Dude, your group is crazy! First they play giantkin goblins. In a campaign where you fight goblins and giants.
I suppose it could be worse. At least they didn't vote to play undead or something.
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My players are voting this week, but right now it looks like they want to play an all-Hellknight party for Curse of the Crimson Throne.Dude, your group is crazy! First they play giantkin goblins. In a campaign where you fight goblins and giants.
** spoiler omitted **
I suppose it could be worse. At least they didn't vote to play undead or something.
A group of hellknights would make for some VERY interesting PCs. A fighter, a fighter/cleric (asmodeus), a fighter/sorcerer (infernal), and a fighter/rogue, all LN or LE but with basically-virtuous goals would be cool.
Dude, your group is crazy!
Well, yeah. I mean, they're willing to take me as DM. :D
{How did they like...}
We're nowhere close to that yet. I expect it to go badly for them.
I suppose it could be worse. At least they didn't vote to play undead or something.
That option came third. Hellknights came second. It turns out that they're playing members of the aristocracy, who are loyal to their families and to the king. We start playing on Sunday, so we'll see how that goes. There's a member of four of the five Great Houses (not the Zenderholms) plus a couple others.
A group of hellknights would make for some VERY interesting PCs. A fighter, a fighter/cleric (asmodeus), a fighter/sorcerer (infernal), and a fighter/rogue, all LN or LE but with basically-virtuous goals would be cool.
I told them that they had to be lawful, had to take aristocrat as their first level, would start at second level, and had to have a BAB of +1. I also told them that the nature of hellknights meant that paladins would be in a continual struggle to maintain their alignment. This option lost to the foppish noble option by a razor-thin margin.
for tbug:
** spoiler omitted **
They voted not to play Hellknights, so it doesn't arise. Here's what I would have done:
I mean, if you don't want it to get complicated then don't choose the weird options. *eg*
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** spoiler omitted **
On the one hand, I think most players would have a hard time not reading that as "The DM wants the action to move out of the city, and merely tied it to our background."
If my players thought that then they'd probably snicker and refuse to move the action. They can be a bit aggressive about breaking plot.
On the other hand, "Report to headquarters for floggings" seems like an order PCs might want to disobey.
I would have tried to be clear about that, yes. This would have been the crisis moment when their ties to the city (remember that level of aristocrat, signifying that they grew up in a noble House in town) conflicted with their lawful natures. I expect that this would have been the crux of the campaign story, and that they might have decided to break from the Hellknights or even orchestrate a change in leadership. If this even happened, of course. (See below.)
On the third hand, "Report to headquarters for floggings" doesn't make near as much sense when it was the Hellknights that saved the city from plague in the first place.
This is a really good point. If the Hellknight PCs actually did save the city from the plague then that scene wouldn't have taken place. I'd have to watch closely as to a) how successful the PCs were and b) how successful their boss perceived them to be.
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(...)
All that being said, I just ran across a prestige class yesterday from the Unholy Warrior's Handbook called Order's Tyrant. (...)Isn't this handbook or at least part of it included in Green Ronin's "Book of Fiends"?
Greetings,
Günther
Does anyone know if "Order's Tyrant" is covered in the Book of Fiends, too?
I know that the Book of Fiends describes part of what was previously covered in the 3.0e Unholy Warrior's Handbook. Does it include this specific class, though?
Thanks for your feedback!
Kr,
Günther
lol @ this. Deliberately willful players would drive me absolutely batty.
You caught the bit about playing giantkin goblins in a campaign where you fight giants and goblins, right? ;)
Does anyone know if "Order's Tyrant" is covered in the Book of Fiends, too?
It is not.
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(...)
All that being said, I just ran across a prestige class yesterday from the Unholy Warrior's Handbook called Order's Tyrant. (...)Isn't this handbook or at least part of it included in Green Ronin's "Book of Fiends"?
Greetings,
GüntherDoes anyone know if "Order's Tyrant" is covered in the Book of Fiends, too?
I know that the Book of Fiends describes part of what was previously covered in the 3.0e Unholy Warrior's Handbook. Does it include this specific class, though?
Thanks for your feedback!
Kr,
Günther
No, it's not; the book of fiends is still very much worth having, however.
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You caught the bit about playing giantkin goblins in a campaign where you fight giants and goblins, right? ;)
Oh, I absolutely did. But a roleplaying challenge that twists the AP on it's head is a different thing from players that metagame what the DM wants them to do, and then do the opposite just to frustrate things.
Oh, I absolutely did. But a roleplaying challenge that twists the AP on it's head is a different thing from players that metagame what the DM wants them to do, and then do the opposite just to frustrate things.
I see what you mean now. Thanks for clarifying.
The players never go to the extreme of acting out of character in order to thwart what's going on, but they'll sometimes go to the extreme of acting in character to do so.
For example, one of the giantkin goblins in RotRL has a character background that includes wanting to raise rabbits, and her priority in a lot of situations is to get home and look after her rabbits. She often just doesn't care what happens to some weird old longshanks. (This is greatly alleviated by the fact that their clan, the Birdcrunchers, lives really close to Sandpoint and a lot of the same plot stuff happens to both.)
This isn't to say that as players they don't want to see the adventure--they do. They just want it to flow organically. My comment was in response to your suggestion that they might take the order from the leader of the Hellknights as my heavyhanded way of forcing the plot out of town, and if they thought that then they'd probably think hard about what they'd do before doing anything and wouldn't be afraid to ignore heavyhandedness on my part.
In other words, they actively avoid the metagaming regarding what the DM wants them to do. If the story gives them a solid reason for acting in a certain way then they do. If I stick them on a railroad then they might jump off.