I recently finished running Burnt Offerings with a party of 4. 1 paladin, 1 wizard, 1 cleric, and 1 rogue. well needles to say all but the wizard has died i even fudged rolls in thier favor and made goblins run away has anyone else had this problem????
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I recently finished running Burnt Offerings with a party of 4. 1 paladin, 1 wizard, 1 cleric, and 1 rogue. well needles to say all but the wizard has died i even fudged rolls in thier favor and made goblins run away has anyone else had this problem????
Please send me your dice. It seems when I need to roll high I end up rolling low. Which makes it a breeze for the PCs to finish off the encounter.
The goblin druid gave them a fit when he entangled most of the party and waited in the hallway with the 4ft ceiling. He was slinging flames from his wand and summoning dire rats to to some damage but once again my rolls ended up to low to be real effective. They rolled high on all of their range attacks. He died before I could get him back into the bushes to hide/heal.
Ripnugget got in a decent charge of 14 damage on the bard. She went down at -4. He did get a few good blow in on the barbarian, dropped him once before he was healed back with a max CLW. I don't think any of the other goblins or warchanters did much else challenge wise.
I should point out I have 6 PCs in the group. Because of this I add more monsters or buff up bosses to help out.
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I think that all of Paizo's products tend to be above average in difficulty. I ran my players through shackled city and am currently playing in a savage tide game, and I know that it was always tough and there were a lot of challenging moments and even a fair amount of deaths.
With that being said, I tend to find the level of difficulty being just right. Its not so high that its a deathtrap dungeon(Tomb of the devil lich, I'm looking at you) but it is always enough that the players have to remember to be on their toes during fights and ensure the use of tactics. It also allows for the DM to up the encounters just a bit to meet with a party that heavily optimizes, while the opposite is also true and its easy enough to step down to lower ranges for a party who weakens themselves through feat choices for RP or who isn't so tactically minded.
I'm currently running a group through RoTRL right now, and we are just finishing up burnt offerings and thus far we haven't had a death, though we have had a number of unconscious characters. We are running almost exclusively core, though with a few outside feats added in on a per-feat basis. My group is normally pretty heavily into optimization of their characters, though with the limiting of the outside rules it has brought everyone to make a much more standard build.
A near TPK at low levels seems a bit extreme, but in any module those are the levels where it is easiest. With how low HP is, one lucky shot(or crit) can put a player out of the fight, leaving the rest of the group to the battle more outnumbered. That can cause the tide to turn very quickly.
There are a few very difficult points however in this module, and you may wish to make it clear that the players can fall back if needed, even if there may be repercussions for that.
Malfishnekor is another brutal battle at the level they face him. But, being contained to the single room means that the players can deal with him later when they are ready after they see how tough he is.
Beyond those, unless the players do something that causes them problems it seems unlikely much is going to be overwhemlingly deadly. The tentamort has a harsh attack, but moves at 5ft and doesn't have a lot of HP, the players can finish it from a distance easily enough. The bunyip is scary because of its bite and you may be in the water fighting it. Get up on shore and its likely to be fleeing quick.
As for the goblins... Well, I have seen a number of people who had problems with them and I suspect that it comes from the fact they have such numbers often that many roles mean critical hits when the players don't have the health to survive them. But if you remember that goblin weapons break on a role of a 1(means more breakage then crits most likely, since you don't have to confirm that) and that half the time the goblins will enact plans that don't always make sense, they are much more survivable
All in all, I tend to think that this adventure path seems just right, tough for a group of core characters without being overwhelming. It has some battles(see the end of skinsaw murders) that definitely push the line and others that are much easier to push through. But that seems to be how it should be, give the players something to fear but also allow their characters time to be heroes.
If your group tends to take a more laid back approach(or hardcore approach) to battle, you may wish to adjust things accordingly, but this seems to fall appropriately in the middle.
-Tarlane
DM's get a huge DM bonus to dice. It's just one of those things.
When I play, I tend to get the worst rolls at the worst time. I almost have to make ridiculously overpowered characters so my performance is on par.
But when I'm the DM, the dice are rolling.
I guess it's all the underdog effect, selective memory, and all that.
You don't remember if you have decent roles and do alright. You remember messing up.
And if you're the DM, bad rolls don't matter that much - you usually want the players to survive. And as a DM, you can always fudge if things go too far out. So you don't mind rolling bad there.
I ran the party through "Hallow's Last Hope" first and they are starting Burnt Offerings right at 2nd. A bit buffing up of the Goblins numbers and/or HP makes it still a challenge.
we are going into the Catacombs of Wrath Thursday.
Let you know how it goes.
I'm running a "prelude" to Burnt Offerings. So far, the players have witnessed the burning of the Cougar Creek mill, and heard farmers cursing the name of Scarnetti, although a singing goblin was found of the crime scene. The combat against it resulted in a mere 2 hp damage on the barbarian (just a flesh wound).
At the Swallowtail Festival, I intend to make them play games (like archery, wrestling and log jumping, merely to allow them to reach second level before the goblins attack and to test the combat maneuvers).
Then again, is a 1d4+1 damage threatening goblin stuffing his pockets full of pickles (sounds like a flat-footed opponent to me) too tough for a first or second level character? I don't think so. If the players work as a team, then have all the chances to defeat the initial goblin assault.
After that, it's RP time in Sandpoint. Although those encounters don't have CR, I will give XP for them, and even add subplots. Anyone crazy enough to drink from the hagfish tank (Fortitude DC 30) deserves some XP, even if he throws up his lunch, no?
Encounters are always balanced for a group of 4 PC. Four individual PCs will find it tough, but if they act like a group, it should be piece of cake. I know I'm not worried for my players, they can dish out anything I throw at them.
- Zorg
All i know is that the bunyip killed my rogue and my cleric then Nualia offed the palidin.
The group I am DMing for has not suffered a death yet. However, the Cleric of Gorum is undoing most of the interesting bits of the story. They faced the Quasit early on, and she shattered his precious Greatsword, which lead to him eventually grappling her and squeezing the life out of her. :) At Thistletop, the captured goblins gave them lots of trouble due to frequent misses... the Cleric was reduced to single digit health before recovering and turning the tide. The Bunyip feared everyone in the group but him, and he killed it after several rounds of combat with a critical after the creature had reduced him to 5 hp. Ripnugget charged the warrior of the group and nearly killed her outright, but countered with a very strong attack. The Cleric then stepped up and crit'd the warchief, killing him instantly... poor bugger never got a chance to beg for his life. :( On the first level, the Cleric charged Bruthazmus and defeated him in two rounds. Then strangely, the group decided to hold back against Lyrie, giving her time to work through her entire spell list. Finally, on one round, the Rogue hit strong with a heavy crossbow and the Cleric finished her with a heavy attack. Orik reduced the Cleric to 1 hp before surrendering himself after another strong Greatsword attack.
Having a Greatsword wielder at this level has lead to combats that resolve as soon as the party can string together a couple of hits, and things usually end swiftly and brutally. When the party misses too much, the Cleric ends up flirting with defeat and death. They captured Tsuto earlier with non-lethal attacks, but he hung himself in jail. They let Orik go without any interrogation though. Every other opponent is dead so far. :/ I'm hoping Nualia gives them a tougher time, but I'm worried Malfeshnekor may have the "greatsword effect" on the party. If they survive that, Skinsaw should prove interesting as the Cleric lacks the ability to turn OR rebuke undead thanks to a little variant he took at the beginning.
Looking at it, I don't see anything too deadly, and so far my PCs have had a fairly easy time of it. I think at low levels all it takes is a few bad dice rolls and you have a TPK, a few good rolls and the same thing looks like a cake walk.
Looking at it, I don't see anything too deadly, and so far my PCs have had a fairly easy time of it. I think at low levels all it takes is a few bad dice rolls and you have a TPK, a few good rolls and the same thing looks like a cake walk.
Go look an Xanesha again.
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Looking at it, I don't see anything too deadly, and so far my PCs have had a fairly easy time of it. I think at low levels all it takes is a few bad dice rolls and you have a TPK, a few good rolls and the same thing looks like a cake walk.Go look an Xanesha again.
Oh yes. I'm looking forward to putting my power-gamers through the snake-shaped wringer *rubs hands*
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I'm with you about looking forward to Xanesha.
After having looked her over again my second time through I considered swapping her with her sister from HMM. So I pulled my players aside and told them that there was a part ahead(they were still just near the beginning of BO at that time) that many on the boards considered a TPK and could be very deadly. However, I could swap it with someone else who had the same CR, would have just as much reason to be there, but the two fights would end up being more in line with their level at the time rather then a crazy fight early and a lesser fight later.
My players looked at each other and said 'That sounds like a challenge. Leave it like it is'. We're on our way now and it looks like that may well be the spot for our first party death(discounting one fudged a bit due to swapping of players).
-Tarlane
Oh yes. I'm looking forward to putting my power-gamers through the snake-shaped wringer *rubs hands*Looking at it, I don't see anything too deadly, and so far my PCs have had a fairly easy time of it. I think at low levels all it takes is a few bad dice rolls and you have a TPK, a few good rolls and the same thing looks like a cake walk.Go look an Xanesha again.
I can tell you this: If you ran her as written, and the players survive this, they're either extremely lucky, or you're far too generous (55pt point buy and LA+8 races for free or something like this), or they're munchkins ;-P
I had to tone her down (I prefer to toy with my vict- I mean player characters before killing them), and she fled. And I already have the perfect spot to let her have her revenge!
By the way: One good way to tone her down is let her play with them at first. She'll have the AC boosts (but not the invis or silence - I kept those away), but won't go on all-out attacks, since those fools are beneath her notice. Only when they really hurt her will she retaliate.
I'm with you about looking forward to Xanesha.
After having looked her over again my second time through I considered swapping her with her sister from HMM. So I pulled my players aside and told them that there was a part ahead(they were still just near the beginning of BO at that time) that many on the boards considered a TPK and could be very deadly. However, I could swap it with someone else who had the same CR, would have just as much reason to be there, but the two fights would end up being more in line with their level at the time rather then a crazy fight early and a lesser fight later.
My players looked at each other and said 'That sounds like a challenge. Leave it like it is'. We're on our way now and it looks like that may well be the spot for our first party death(discounting one fudged a bit due to swapping of players).
-Tarlane
Generally the problem I see here is that, if they can take her, then thats pretty much a sure sign that they're overpowered. If so your not really going to get many other challenging encounters in the rest of the AP. Hence the fact that they can take her down is a bad sign for the rest of the AP.
I recently finished running Burnt Offerings with a party of 4. 1 paladin, 1 wizard, 1 cleric, and 1 rogue. well needles to say all but the wizard has died i even fudged rolls in thier favor and made goblins run away has anyone else had this problem????
Our group couldn't defeat the Quaist in combat with no magic.(I'm a player btw not sure whats harder after her.)
We had to resort to grapple attacks to help bypass her natural AC then dragged her to the pool and drown it.
Not very heroic, but so far no player deaths, many shots were I fell into negatives though.
Characters:
Deivo Winterwalker "Fighter(2)"
Tyr "Healer(1)"
Garth "Duskblade(2)"
I recently finished running Burnt Offerings with a party of 4. 1 paladin, 1 wizard, 1 cleric, and 1 rogue. well needles to say all but the wizard has died i even fudged rolls in thier favor and made goblins run away has anyone else had this problem????Our group couldn't defeat the Quaist in combat with no magic.(I'm a player btw not sure whats harder after her.)
We had to resort to grapple attacks to help bypass her natural AC then dragged her to the pool and drown it.
Not very heroic, but so far no player deaths, many shots were I fell into negatives though.
Characters:
Deivo Winterwalker "Fighter(2)"
Tyr "Healer(1)"
Garth "Duskblade(2)"
Xanesha is tougher - she hits back...HARD!
Erylium is nearly invulnerable but she's, like, wielding a sewing needle - two handed.
My party had trouble with Erylium at first.
But they were able to steal her returning dagger, because the rules say that it doesn't return to her hand until the start of her following turn. So it's just sitting there waiting while all the PCs take their actions. Once the realized the mismatch, they grabbed the dagger and ran out of the room.
The lack of the dagger really nerfs the quasit. Once she was out of spells, summoned monsters, etc, she had to close to melee to try and defend her kingdom. At which point the PCs were able to grapple her and finish her off. She managed to paralyze one PC with her poison, but that was it.
I have a six player party, so I have been adding things here and there, but so far no one has died. The only serious threat was when a goblin dog rolled max damage on the Cleric during the first game. The cleric dropped, but the party protected their fallen comrade and finished off the combat before the goblins could pull a CDG.
The party is now 3rd level and getting ready to hit Thistletop. We shall see how they do.
But if anyone gets eaten by Bunyip, they were just careless.