I just got banned from Enworld!!!!
I just got banned from Enworld!!!!
heh- whaddya do?
At least link us to the scene of the thought crime.
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4E is on its way. You may play it, or you might not. You may love it, or you might hate it.
But it is coming, and at some point this forum needs to shift from debate to discuss.
I don't see anyone complaining about 3.5 over in the d20/OGL forum. I see a bunch of folk talking about the game they love to play.
This place (the 4E forum) needs to shift to that kind of dynamic at some point.
So when can we accept that 4E is what it is (like it or not) and those that want to play it deserve a space where they can talk about it freely without the sniping and rancor.
my smartass thoughts say if you want to disucss 4e go to enworld or WOTC boards.....
I just got banned from Enworld!!!!heh- whaddya do?
At least link us to the scene of the thought crime.
It's gone and deleted. I made a off-hand remark about How "4e is a mockery of D&D"...oh yeah and my sigsays 4e"Good Luck With That"
my smartass thoughts say if you want to disucss 4e go to enworld or WOTC boards.....
Ditto!
Ditto!my smartass thoughts say if you want to disucss 4e go to enworld or WOTC boards.....
So, if we want to discuss 4E on the Paizo 4E boards ... go somewhere else?
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When can we stop the debate?Whenever we want.
But we don't want to.
Really, if you don't want to hear negative things about 4e, I'd like to suggest to go somewhere where they don't allow negative things to be said about it. wizards has a couple of message boards for that.
But the moment these boards become a place where complaining about anything is forbidden is the day I cancel all my subscriptions. Not that it would happen, of course.
I want to hear both the positive and negative things about the game.
Not negative posts about WotC employees.
Not insults hurled at those that may choose to play 4E.
Let's talk about the game and not each other.
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So, if we want to discuss 4E on the Paizo 4E boards ... go somewhere else?Ditto!my smartass thoughts say if you want to disucss 4e go to enworld or WOTC boards.....
I know - basically anyone that wants to play 4E should leave the Paizo boards.
That ensures that the Paizo staff hear only those voices that want them to stick with 3.5.
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I just got banned from Enworld!!!!
You are my hero!!!
I know - basically anyone that wants to play 4E should leave the Paizo boards.
That ensures that the Paizo staff hear only those voices that want them to stick with 3.5.
That would be awesome!!! ...not that you go away, but that Paizo sticks with 3.5.
So, if we want to discuss 4E on the Paizo 4E boards ... go somewhere else?Ditto!my smartass thoughts say if you want to disucss 4e go to enworld or WOTC boards.....
I know - basically anyone that wants to play 4E should leave the Paizo boards.
That ensures that the Paizo staff hear only those voices that want them to stick with 3.5.
Ah don't mind all that bluster, there's enough partisanship right now without seeing it in my game chat.
I for one am happy to hear from you, Crosswiredmind.
...a spoiler that involves puppies...
Lol.
I agree. If Paizo goes 4.0 then the 3,5 fans will find another forum where they can share ideas and debate 4.0's merits. There might not be a proper forum for it now, but you can expect someone to fill that void.If Paizo goes 3.5 and produces no 4.0 material, then the 4.0 crowd will post on the EnWorld and DNDinsider/Gleemaz boards and keep their discussions there.
I'm not planning on going anywhere even if Pazio decides its staying with 3.5. The 4th Ed forum will still be here - their not taking it down since they derive a large sum of their money from selling stuff - and that will include 4E stuff.
In any case we'd do them a favour. If they don't go 4th edition then their adventures will have to be converted to 4th edition by their fans that plan to switch. Were better to make those conversions then right here? Hmmm...I wonder if we could convince them to give us webspace to post the conversions for the unique Pathfinder monsters ... this part might involve scheming and plotting.
So, you're feeling persecuted because not everyone who posts shares the same views you do? Sounds like you want an area that restricts the kinds of posts that appear so that everyone agrees with your views and no one questions them. Sounds like censorship to me.
It seems to me that the people that come here just to dump on 4E are just trying to decrease the signal to noise ratio. They don't want to see people talking in a positive way about 4E.
I think you totally missed his point. He wants to talk about the newly released kobold or HP system or whatever but every second post is along the lines of "thats what they have done to Kobolds!!!1! Thats the just really dumb. 4E sucks!"
The conversation then quickly degenerates into an argument over whether or not 4E sucks. Essentially every thread is on the same topic - does 4E suck or not. What he's really looking for is basically discussion on the topic itself and not on whether or not 4E sucks.
At this point the lines are mostly drawn, with the exception of a few fence sitters most of us could probably save ourselves a lot of time and just glance at who wrote the post without actually reading their post. We already pretty much know what the poster is going to say depending on whether they have IDed themselves as being in the pro or anti 4E camp.
Since some folks seem to be missing my point let me ask you a question:
Is it okay with you to have a large vocal group post to the d20/OGL board to tell everyone that they are ignorant cavemen for playing an older edition?
No that'd not be OK. You'd be off topic. Furthermore its not necessarily true that'd you get your message across. A lot of posters that seem to post on the 4.0 thread don't seem nearly as active on the 3.5 thread and a lot of posters that just don't want to engage in this debate stick to the 3.5 threads. They'd not deserve that kind of shabby treatment.
Naah, that's when it'll get going reeeeeel good.Yeah, I have to agree. I hate to see the rift in our gaming community but it will.... its obvious, the market is going to split... most all professional game supplement designers will be compelled to buy 4th edition core books but many may decide ultimately to continue to create products for 3.5 and 3.0 players.
As for gamers, I think we will see the "Tastes Great" versus "Less Filling" crowd... aka "You're D&D is not the REAL D&D". That will be the debate... which D&D is the real D&D... 4th edition, or 3.5... or 2nd or 1st edition perhaps???
1st edition, early 2nd edition and Hackmaster, IMO. Nothing else is real D&D, I'll say I like this [3.5] game better though and hopefully I'll like 4.0 even more.
Hello, do you want to be my friend?
There's that dead horse again - quick stomp it. I tell you its an undead horse!
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So, if we want to discuss 4E on the Paizo 4E boards ... go somewhere else?Ditto!my smartass thoughts say if you want to disucss 4e go to enworld or WOTC boards.....
I know - basically anyone that wants to play 4E should leave the Paizo boards.
That ensures that the Paizo staff hear only those voices that want them to stick with 3.5.
Thats why I said it was my smart ass remark. I'm not really that serious about it. You are one of the rarer few that I've seen thats actually interested in talking about 4e, warts and all, rather unlike the vast majority of 4e fanboys.
And, TBH, thats been THEIR reaction to any debate. But, I'm not too serious about it.
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So, if we want to discuss 4E on the Paizo 4E boards ... go somewhere else?Ditto!my smartass thoughts say if you want to disucss 4e go to enworld or WOTC boards.....
Thats been the general reaction to any criticism of 4e on wotc, and a real good chunk of enworld lately.....so I'm only half serious about that, as turn about is fair play and all....
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Thing is we've seen maybe 10% of the game presented in its final form, and another 10-15% presented (often POORLY) via blogs and "leaks"; since that's not really enough to judge the game fairly, and gamers LOVE to be judgemental, all that's left to do IS judge each other and stick to one view with fanatical devotion...
Or sit in the middle and make fun of everyone...
But maybe if you fixed that crosswiring your mind might grasp this? :D
(That was an EXAMPLE, BTW, not an actual "Insult")...
LOL - no, I get it. I just wish the trolls and flame baiters would just tone it down so we could piece together what we DO know and try to figure out if it's a good thing or a bad thing.
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Thats why I said it was my smart ass remark. I'm not really that serious about it. You are one of the rarer few that I've seen thats actually interested in talking about 4e, warts and all, rather unlike the vast majority of 4e fanboys.
I hear ya. I was reacting more to the ditto post than yours.
And yes, I do want to talk about the warts on 4E. Its a hard thing to do. Too often people chime in with unfounded misinformation or they repeat claims about 4E that have already been shown to be erroneous.
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Frankly, I just figure message boards are full of blowhards and that's why God invented /ignore and gave us the ability to do it manually when the feature doesn't work.
That is a feature I do miss. In other forums the trolls found them selves ignored be enough participants that thread could not be killed by their poison. The manual ignore sometimes works. I have managed to ignore some of the more rabid trolls, but it does not keep threads from degeneration because they can become clogged with troll droppings.
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That is a feature I do miss. In other forums the trolls found them selves ignored be enough participants that thread could not be killed by their poison. The manual ignore sometimes works. I have managed to ignore some of the more rabid trolls, but it does not keep threads from degeneration because they can become clogged with troll droppings.
Out of curiousity, how does that feature work? Is the ignoree actually aware of the fact that he is ignored or does he have to deduce it from the fact the ingorer never respondes to his trollish posts?
Sorry...
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Out of curiousity, how does that feature work? Is the ignoree actually aware of the fact that he is ignored or does he have to deduce it from the fact the ingorer never respondes to his trollish posts?Sorry...
Sometimes they know and sometimes they don't. One board I was on made sure to tell the ignored party because I accidently ignored a friend of mine and he received a notice when he tried to PM me. Most just do it quietly.
I just got banned from Enworld!!!!
lol
How dare you declaim pejorative slogans that decry recent developments in the worlds most popular role playing game. Serves you right. Don't you dare try it here CWM will brush you off with... with... his opinion.
So, if we want to discuss 4E on the Paizo 4E boards ... go somewhere else?Ditto!my smartass thoughts say if you want to disucss 4e go to enworld or WOTC boards.....
I'm a kidding therefore I kid, don't take anything I say against 4e serious I like to play(TROLL)with this stuff as a humor buffer kinda like the Dead Horse,Vomit Guy etc...:)
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I'm a kidding therefore I kid, don't take anything I say against 4e serious I like to play(TROLL)with this stuff as a humor buffer kinda like the Dead Horse,Vomit Guy etc...:)So, if we want to discuss 4E on the Paizo 4E boards ... go somewhere else?Ditto!my smartass thoughts say if you want to disucss 4e go to enworld or WOTC boards.....
Well it doesn't work. Sorry.
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I just got banned from Enworld!!!!lol
How dare you declaim pejorative slogans that decry recent developments in the worlds most popular role playing game. Serves you right. Don't you dare try it here CWM will brush you off with... with... his opinion.
Hey, if posting my opinion is enough to brush someone off - that is not my problem. If you disagree then I am open to discuss it but don't attack me for disagreeing with you.
Hey, if posting my opinion is enough to brush someone off - that is not my problem. If you disagree then I am open to discuss it but don't attack me for disagreeing with you.I just got banned from Enworld!!!!lol
How dare you declaim pejorative slogans that decry recent developments in the worlds most popular role playing game. Serves you right. Don't you dare try it here CWM will brush you off with... with... his opinion.
I don't intend to attack you CWM, I just like to poke at you because it's cute how you wriggle around indignantly. You are now a fixture here and I think poking comes with the turf you've marked.
[ED: I'm not really interested in discussing anything with you because when you first arrived I tried and you didn't discuss, you just told, and it left a bad taste in my mouth. So now I just poke.]
I don't intend to attack you CWM, I just like to poke at you because it's cute how you wriggle around indignantly. You are now a fixture here and I think poking comes with the turf you've marked.
Crosswiredmind,
There is a good feeling to become a fixture in the community.. even when we don't all agree.. or we get on each other's nerves.
God knows I'm not always sweetness and light.
I remember I got mad one day and wanted to walk.. and Kruelaid and Daigle, and many others pointed out- "Watcher, just earned your seat at the Paizo bar, don't give it up now..."
So Krue is right. You're part of the gang now. You're the 'Logical Defense of 4th Edition Guy.' And sometimes that's going to get you teased. :D
Liking 4th Edition isn't a crime. We just got to see if it's a good match for Pathfinder.
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*deep breath*
4E is on its way.
Well, as I've been saying recently at home, yes it may arrive but will it really "arrive" on Paizo's schedule. That's yet to be seen. And until an announcement is made I suspect the dabate will continue. You may like it or you may not. You may love it or you may hate it.
You may play it, or you might not. You may love it, or you might hate it. But it is coming, and at some point this forum needs to shift from debate to discuss.
Unless in the event of the century, Paizo decides not to hook their carcass onto the WotC bandwagon. And if that's the case such discussion might be better served elsewhere.
-DM Jeff
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I don't intend to attack you CWM, I just like to poke at you because it's cute how you wriggle around indignantly. You are now a fixture here and I think poking comes with the turf you've marked.
[ED: I'm not really interested in discussing anything with you because when you first arrived I tried and you didn't discuss, you just told, and it left a bad taste in my mouth. So now I just poke.]
Poke away - but please poke with some indication that it is a poke like ;) or {poke} or something.
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I don't intend to attack you CWM, I just like to poke at you because it's cute how you wriggle around indignantly. You are now a fixture here and I think poking comes with the turf you've marked.Crosswiredmind,
There is a good feeling to become a fixture in the community.. even when we don't all agree.. or we get on each other's nerves.
God knows I'm not always sweetness and light.
I remember I got mad one day and wanted to walk.. and Kruelaid and Daigle, and many others pointed out- "Watcher, just earned your seat at the Paizo bar, don't give it up now..."
So Krue is right. You're part of the gang now. You're the 'Logical Defense of 4th Edition Guy.' And sometimes that's going to get you teased. :D
Liking 4th Edition isn't a crime. We just got to see if it's a good match for Pathfinder.
I usually disagree with CWM but I consider him a fixture and, even as I disagree with it most times, I do respect his opinion. I actually hope he sticks around whether Paizo switches or not..........and it is fun to watch him squirm indignantly on occasion.
;P
Well it doesn't work. Sorry.I'm a kidding therefore I kid, don't take anything I say against 4e serious I like to play(TROLL)with this stuff as a humor buffer kinda like the Dead Horse,Vomit Guy etc...:)So, if we want to discuss 4E on the Paizo 4E boards ... go somewhere else?Ditto!my smartass thoughts say if you want to disucss 4e go to enworld or WOTC boards.....
Then lighten up dude or else...:)
It works for me and that all that matters hehaw!See other folks like to rough up your feathers!come on dude your cool with me are you a lawyer in real life...
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Then lighten up dude or else...:)
It works for me and that all that matters hehaw!See other folks like to rough up your feathers!come on dude your cool with me are you a lawyer in real life...
If your posts came across as lighthearted then I would not have a problem but if it walks like a troll, posts like a troll, and smells like a troll ...
If your posts came across as lighthearted then I would not have a problem but if it walks like a troll, posts like a troll, and smells like a troll ...
It must be Tobus Neth...
I will try to remember to make it lighthearted..but just for you...I gotta get a shower I feel dirty...
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I hear ya. I was reacting more to the ditto post than yours.
And yes, I do want to talk about the warts on 4E. Its a hard thing to do. Too often people chime in with unfounded misinformation or they repeat claims about 4E that have already been shown to be erroneous.
Most dont. The flip side of erroneous information adn such is the lack of, well, dicussion. Being told to stuff it, get lost or other things....There's another thread here on the WOTC board and the atrocious behaviour of the pro-4e fans.
Or hell, the gronads and 4e thread on enworld, a joke done to the tune of green eggs and ham....a bit amusing, but I guarantee if I did a Suess rythme that wasnt pro-4e there it get lock or such.
Okay, CWM, you've been pretty reasonable lately so I'll cut it all out.
But you've gotta realize (and I've said this before) you're lining up your mostly/partially well thought out convictions against people who feel seriously pissed off and have a right to feel so, and any confrontation like that isn't going to pan out well.
You stuck with all of us so I'm with FH in saying I hope you continue to do so. Once the radioactive ash settles I might even consider discussing things, [irony] even though you are clearly a more rational person than I. [/irony]
Here's a thought, when you get that shiny new 4E rulebook in your hands, run a 4E pbp.
;)
Don't mind Tobus, he's a barbarian.
Don't mind Tobus, he's a barbarian.
No he's a troll with 18 levels of Barbarian!
Kruelaid,
Have I cheesed you off? You seem awful cautious of me lately. I don't know if that's the right word or not.. but I got that "looked through" feeling.
If so, can we make friendly again? If I'm imagining it, then feel free to call me narcassitic.
Kruelaid,
Have I cheesed you off? You seem awful cautious of me lately. I don't know if that's the right word or not.. but I got that "looked through" feeling.
If so, can we make friendly again? If I'm imagining it, then feel free to call me narcassitic.
;)
Not at all. I've been going so hard on getting up my characters for Heathansson's and Radavel's pbps that my posting has been distracted. Right now I'm prepping for my courses this term.
I was going to e-mail you about u-know-what and then I realized I've got no brains cells available to read anything longer than one paragraph right now.
All is well, dude, all is well.
How's life?
We never ask each other that around here eh? Just a lot of chatter about editions and subscriptions... blah blah blah.
While I'm on this thread I want to say again, as others have done, let's all ease up on the acrimony - for E.E.G.
I know I'm going to.
All is well, dude, all is well.How's life?
We never ask each other that around here eh? Just a lot of chatter about editions and subscriptions... blah blah blah.
Life is really pretty good!
Right now I'd say I'd say it was great, except this GSL thing is like a soap opera I can't stop watching. I'm in my office trying to work, and I'm glued. My productivity would be higher if they just coughed it up.
But things are wonderful. Weather is starting to improve, spring is on it's way. I used to PBeM constantly, perpetually, for almost a decade.. and now I've sort of backed away from it. My Pathfinder game is going awesome, and then time I don't spend writing e-mailed gaming posts I'm spending with the wife.. and that's making her happy.
Career is going gangbusters too, except for the distractions. :)
Anyway, thanks for the reassurance. Everybody here is part of a great community.. and while this Edition BS is enough to drive anybody nuts, I'm really glad to be part of such a great neighborhood. And you're part of that.
While I'm on this thread I want to say again, as others have done, let's all ease up on the acrimony - for E.E.G.
okay-puts away troll costume...for the E.G.G-
Kruelaid what is best in life?
I am really unclear as to the point of this thread. You state that you want a place to discuss 4E without rancour. what exactly do you mean by that- without disagreement? discussing specifics? I am not sure how you can have a discussion without differing points of view. If you want to discuss specifics, make sure that the thread is appropriately specific. I.E The new invisibility spell is XXX. Threads that are to the negative or the positive (XXX sucks, rocks etc.) will always bring out the opposite because there will always be contrarian points of view.Disagreement is great. It is an essential part of reaching understanding and learning from a different perspective. But the foundation of that kind of discussion is one of fundamental agreement. In this case I see it as - I play (or want to play) 4E. Discuss.
The problem with discussions of fundamental agreement is they have no value (apart from making the participants feel good, I guess). This is why I avoid the endless "me too" threads in various forums.
4E is a game that some of us want to try out, some are excited about it and know they want to play it, and some hope that it is good and come here to see why other people like what they see.
There is some of that going on here. Several people have posted that they are taking some of the mechanics from 4e and adding them to their games.
It seems to me that the people that come here just to dump on 4E are just trying to decrease the signal to noise ratio. They don't want to see people talking in a positive way about 4E.
No, they don't want to see people who praise everything about 4e, before the rules are even released, when there are things they dislike in the preview material. It offends some people's belief in critical thought. Adding in WotC's general tone of beating up older editions to hype 4e, the wholesale changes to 30+ years of material, the tone of many of the pro-4e crowd (the ones who refuse to actually discuss the pros and cons of the various changes; thankfully, these are less frequent than they were right after the announcement), and the trolling going on from each side results in an emotional atmosphere. Although, to be fair, Paizo forums are a lot nicer than most of the rest of the ones "discussing" 4e.
I think the point is swiftly approaching when that has to stop so people can discuss the game from a common agreement that it is worth playing.
I think this reflects the flaw in how you are viewing this. Despite the emotional outbursts from the "anti-4e" crowd, I doubt there would be a large number who would be of the opinion that 4e is not "worth playing." It would be more accurate to say that 4e is not "the game they wish to play." Or, for some, not "the game that they consider D&D."
While I'm on this thread I want to say again, as others have done, let's all ease up on the acrimony - for E.E.G.
I know I'm going to.
Aaaah.
Come on everyone, Group Hug.
;)
This thread is beginning to make me physically ill.