I am about to finish Shackled City and would like to embark next on Rise of the Runelords. I will very probably convert 4th edition because so far what I've seen interests me (faster & easier gameplay, less prep time for the GM, more dynamic combats....) and I might as well do it when I change campaign. Has Paizo given any thought about publishing an additional booklet for the conversion to 4E?
I guess you could publish something that basically tells you that for this and that encounter add/subtract X number of goblins whose characteristics are now as follows…
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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While naturally, i can only conjecture, i would guess not... unless they republish the path entirely. Which i doubt.
Really, it is a metric ton of work for very little benefit to them, and that is assuming it is even possible. For example, the whole Runelords of Tassilon storyline hinges on the schools of magic - which may very well be impossible to map to the new magic system. What if WotC leaves out all transmutation spells "for future development"? Karzhoug will be pretty much uninteresting then. :)
Even if there were no systematic hurdles of this magnitude, you would essentially have to go through each encounter, and rebuild it from scratch. The whole power level of the two systems is different from all i have gathered - with PCs starting off way beyond the humble beginnings they currently "enjoy" (And i mean enjoy as in hope no horse kicks them - they might be dead!) While i never got past the wonderous item in RPG Superstar, i have written adventures for my group - and statting up encounters and balancing them against the players is the lions share of writing.
Don't expect Paizo do make 4e conversion for any of the APs
however, i will be using Runelords as a backbone for my 1st 4e game. This will not be an exactly conversion of every character and encounter but will use the campaign and main story as the foundation for my 4e game.
I plan to keep a game blog here as i start the conversion and as my players progress in the game
this may help but we have a few months before any of this starts
C-
Creative Director
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Since we still haven't been given the 4th Edition rules to look over, we can't commit to anything like a 4E conversion of Rise of the Runelords or Curse of the Crimson Throne (or Second Darkness if we decide to go 3.5 with that Adventure Path). We don't even know if converting these adventures would even be POSSIBLE without completely re-writing all of them. Once we get the rules, though, this option will certainly be one we look at and consider.
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Since we still haven't been given the 4th Edition rules to look over, we can't commit to anything like a 4E conversion of Rise of the Runelords or Curse of the Crimson Throne (or Second Darkness if we decide to go 3.5 with that Adventure Path). We don't even know if converting these adventures would even be POSSIBLE without completely re-writing all of them. Once we get the rules, though, this option will certainly be one we look at and consider.
Still no rules? Didn't you guys pay for them already? Boy, I am guessing that they aren't in any hurry for Paizo to start outperforming them at their own game....
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Hmm, if there is still no sight or sound of the new rules, how does that affect even the ability to switch? Warning: Speculation follows.
Unless i am completely off, Pathfinder 13 should ship in about 6 months - not exactly a lot of time not only to "get" the system in its depth, but also write an adventure path on par with what i have come to expect of Paizo.
Sure, i don't know about printing schedules, but i would expect it takes at least a month from manuscript to warehouse, if not more - which makes 5 months. Add another month for editing, and we are left at 4. 2 more for the freelancers to actually write the adventures - if i recall correctly. I can't seem to dredge up that direct quote, and might misremember something - 2 left.
Now two months sound like a lot of time, and the overarching story is probably done for the most part. But its still going to be a tight squeeze. If Paizo got access to the rules tomorrow, it would probably still take at least a week until all legalese is handled, and the writers actually can take a first tenative glance at the golden future of D&D and gaming in general.
I doubt its as tight a fit as some would claim. Two more weeks of playtesting and trying to get a feel for the how the rules "tick" is probably going to be inevitable.
Which leaves us with a measly 20 working days for anything that might go wrong along the way.
That is, unless my guesstimate is totally off target - in which case, feel free to flambeu me.
EDIT: Typo
I would like to see "official" conversions when the time is right, but if not I imagine a few enterprising community members will be able to make good conversions.
I would like to see "official" conversions when the time is right, but if not I imagine a few enterprising community members will be able to make good conversions.
Converstions from 3e to 4e will not be strait forward. the 2 systems are very different. You could still make a 4e character that feels the same as a 3e character but it wont be a strait converstion...
I'd suggesting trying True20. Paizo is doing conversions for these which you can download for free, and in many ways, True20 is similar to some of the rules I have seen for 4e so far. Mainly the speed of play, abstraction of many parts of the rules (which I like) and ease of use over v3.5.
For example, I was able to do my own conversions of many of the RotR NPC's and monsters to True20 extremely fast. On average, I could convert an NPC or monster with a full writeup in True20 in less than 10 minutes. I converted the white dragon from SotS in 5 minutes and he is NASTY :)
Contributor
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I'd suggesting trying True20. Paizo is doing conversions for these which you can download for free, and in many ways, True20 is similar to some of the rules I have seen for 4e so far. Mainly the speed of play, abstraction of many parts of the rules (which I like) and ease of use over v3.5.
For example, I was able to do my own conversions of many of the RotR NPC's and monsters to True20 extremely fast. On average, I could convert an NPC or monster with a full writeup in True20 in less than 10 minutes. I converted the white dragon from SotS in 5 minutes and he is NASTY :)
To be clear, Green Ronin is doing those conversions. Credit where credit is due and all that. :)
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As I understand people at Paizo, they won't create any conversions - not the least reason being the effort needed.
They don't seem to prevent people from creating conversions of their own, though (see Green Ronin).
Which light e.g. Green Ronin's support sheds on Paizo's position in the d20 pubisher world is left to everyone's own musing... ;-)
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Creative Director
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Yeah... we barely have time to put out the books themselves! :-)
One thing I learned from doing the Forgotten Realms and Eberron conversions for Savage Tide and Age of Worms: They take a LOT of time out of the editors' schedules. Time better spent making the base product better, in my opinion. By outsourcing the conversions to True20 and to C&C, we not only keep that time for ourselves to work on the main product, but get the conversions into the hands of experts. I myself certainly don't know either system near well enough to oversee an in-house conversion.
I suspect that when we choose our ruleset for the future (a decision we can't make until we get a copy of the 4th Edition rules, of course), that IF we do a conversion to the other ruleset, we'll follow the same tactic. Doing them in house would be too much.
This, of course, assumes that one CAN convert a 3.5 adventure into a 4th edition adventure (or vice versa) and have them even look like the same adventure in the end. I assume that it CAN be done... but again, we don't have the rules yet, so no promises.
I for one hope to run Rise of the Runelords in 4th edition, if that turns out to be viable. I will be greatly surprised it is not possible. The question in my mind is only how much work will it take. Would Paizo be ok with fan created conversions being posted in the format required by ENWorld for conversions from 1st or 2nd edition to 3rd edition? I belive that format required that one not post any reproduction of the adventure itself, only posting 3rd edition stats for the monsters and treasure in each area. The purpose of this is to require that someone purchase the product in order to be able to run the converted adventure, so someone can't run the adventure with merely the conversion notes. In this case it would mean posting the 4th edition stats for the monsters and treasure in each area, or suitable substitutes where there is no perfect conversion.
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Converstions from 3e to 4e will not be strait forward. the 2 systems are very different. You could still make a 4e character that feels the same as a 3e character but it wont be a strait converstion...
It'll be a straight conversion, a goblin is still a goblin. The only thing that could change are the number of critters you face per encounter... 4 goblins + a beefy goblin could be tougher in 4E then they are in 3E, so they might need fewer goblins, if they're weaker, no reason to change the encounter.
Once they've balanced the first few encounters they just needs to figure out how much XP the party should have before their first "boss encounter" and stat the "boss" based on what level the party should be by the time they get there. The game will be the same, the powers and abilities will be very different for the "major" NPCs since they'll likely be the ones being completely rewritten.
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Contributor
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I for one hope to run Rise of the Runelords in 4th edition, if that turns out to be viable. I will be greatly surprised it is not possible. The question in my mind is only how much work will it take. Would Paizo be ok with fan created conversions being posted in the format required by ENWorld for conversions from 1st or 2nd edition to 3rd edition? I belive that format required that one not post any reproduction of the adventure itself, only posting 3rd edition stats for the monsters and treasure in each area. The purpose of this is to require that someone purchase the product in order to be able to run the converted adventure, so someone can't run the adventure with merely the conversion notes. In this case it would mean posting the 4th edition stats for the monsters and treasure in each area, or suitable substitutes where there is no perfect conversion.
Yeah, we're totally fine with fans doing the conversions (with the caveats you listed). We prefer they get posted on our own messageboards, but I don't think we'd get persnickety if they showed up on ENWorld.
It'll be a straight conversion, a goblin is still a goblin. The only thing that could change are the number of critters you face per encounter... 4 goblins + a beefy goblin could be tougher in 4E then they are in 3E, so they might need fewer goblins, if they're weaker, no reason to change the encounter.
Your Corrent that a Goblin is still a goblin and it will change the number of Creatures the fight, but Spells, combat rolls, and all kinds of other ablitys will be different enough that i don't feel it will be a strait forward converstion.
However i think it will be fung giveing Ogres with Giants hooks some special fighter\Barbarian like attacks(all Classes will have special attacks)
:-)
I'd rather see a fan conversion after seeing the True20 conversions for RotR. Those PDF's are a great starting point, but there a LOT of errors in them and I have had to go through them all and redo almost every single trap, NPC and monster. Plus, I'd like to have the Paizo guys concentrate on the actual adventures and new material than having to do 2-3 free PDF's of conversions and possibly having it impact the release of said new material.