When are they gonna make Eberron conversions for Pathfinder?
Should Sandpoint go on Zendrik?
Good point. Sadly, with time the grognard may go from maintaining his grumpy old codger of a frown to eventually spiraling down the path of full blown dementia.
When this happens anything is possible, from making new rulesets that only he will ever see to playing new editions and claiming they are more true to 'the game' to making nonsensical conversions into antiquated game worlds.
However, this is a discussion of the categories of non-players of new game systems and not habits of the mad. Take your threadjack somewhere else good sir!
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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You're overlooking a few categories then - though one does not (actually, CANNOT, unless you count potential disenchanted playtesters):1) Those who simply fear change.
2) Those who've played the new game and dislike enough about it to never play again. This one, obviously, doesn't yet exist, and might not ever, but needs to be considered. You can pyschologically examine them once they do come into being, I suppose...
3) Those who hate the whole Fantasy/Swords & Sorcery genre and use d20 as an engine for other settings and games (Star Wars d20/Saga, d20 Modern, Stargate SG-1, etc.) - I've seen some legitimate worries from those groups that the change to 4E could screw their games over, despite them being OGL.
Wrong.
1) Those who simply fear change.
The poor, the old and the lawyers all fear change. The poor fear not having the time (I'd say the money but some will steal) to play, the old fear their legacy waning and the lawyers fear new precedents overriding their old cases.
2) Those who've played the new game and dislike enough about it to never play again.
The reason why they'll dislike it will fall into one of three categories: they're either too poor, too old or too orderly.
3) Those who hate the whole Fantasy/Swords & Sorcery genre and use d20 as an engine for other settings and games (Star Wars d20/Saga, d20 Modern, Stargate SG-1, etc.) - I've seen some legitimate worries from those groups that the change to 4E could screw their games over, despite them being OGL.
They are clearly in the mad pile.
?!? Wait - you're saying the new rules are going to be Chaotic? I thought they were getting rid of Alignment?
To a lawyer simply removing law IS chaos.
Takasi:
In my opinion the following observations have at least as much validity as the arguements that you are making:
Egads, it's the Allied Goat Alliance! Kill the wise one!
And if you meet the Game Designer on the road, kill him.?!? Wait - you're saying the new rules are going to be Chaotic? I thought they were getting rid of Alignment?To a lawyer simply removing law IS chaos.
Buddha didn't stand a chance. "Enlightened man vs 1 tonne of steel moving at 100 kph." The biggest problem is the cops after that. They call it "hit and run" and "vehicular man slaughter". Seesh, haven't they heard of philosophy before?
Not in space, when the space station has fully vented its atmosphere.Mice don't go Clang. They squeek.Dip them in bronze, let them cool, then drop them in a metal bucket. That should work.
Wrong. If your ear is against the space station. It will still transmit sound even if no air will.
I am technically correct. The best kind of correct.
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Not in space, when the space station has fully vented its atmosphere.Mice don't go Clang. They squeek.Dip them in bronze, let them cool, then drop them in a metal bucket. That should work.Wrong. If your ear is against the space station. It will still transmit sound even if no air will.
I am technically correct. The best kind of correct.
AHA!!! That also assumes centrifugal force-produced artificial gravitation.
So...yes and no.Since I crafted the model, the station is stationary, hence the now bronzed mouse floats randomly into a gob of jello.
Not in space, when the space station has fully vented its atmosphere.Mice don't go Clang. They squeek.Dip them in bronze, let them cool, then drop them in a metal bucket. That should work.Wrong. If your ear is against the space station. It will still transmit sound even if no air will.
I am technically correct. The best kind of correct.
AHA!!! That also assumes centrifugal force-produced artificial gravitation.
So...yes and no.
Since I crafted the model, the station is stationary, hence the now bronzed mouse floats randomly into a gob of jello.
Aha! A space station must be in orbit around a body that exerts gravity (otherwise not in orbit). If it wasn't then it would be a space ship or debris aka space junk. The jello also was blown apart or frozen from the decompression of the station.
Fear me and my fact twisting powers!
I will be happy to respond in more usual means to your posts when you actually start to show some attention to what other people are writing; for example you have already had slef-professed ruleslawyers writing on this thread that they are practically salivating (my interpretation) at the thought of a new edition, yet you appear to me to continue to maintain a stace that all such persons will barely be able to look at a new edition.
Edits!
These aren't the rules lawyers you're looking for...
If ya hate new editions, ya just might be a rules lawyer. (Or a grognard or simply unfortunate and forced to exclude one system over another.)
And there are always going to be some rules lawyers, grognards and untouchables who don't hate new editions, but they are the exception and not the rule.
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Other reasons one might post critical comments about 4E;
4) I like arguing on the internet to make up for how I don't get in a word edgewise at home, where my opinions count for nothing and only my weekly paycheck earns me grudging tolerance.
5) I R teh crazeeflakes.
6) Hate burns at the core of my being, and this is just another place where I can vent it out to scorch the pitiful fools who are trapped in this world with me.
7) I belong to some fringe political faction / whacko religious cult / alien ethnic group that is very reasonably held in contempt by proper folk, and this position, like every other position taken by my ilk, is wrong, wrong, wrong, based on superstitious mumbo-jumbo, out-of-context statistics and outright lies.
8) I woke up on the wrong side of the futon this morning, and my entire position can be dismissed as me being 'grumpy.'
9) As stated above, I fear change, and am still resisting updating from Gods, Demigods & Heroes to use the confusing newfangled rules in the 1st printing of Dieties & Demigods. My fellow grognards are also opposed to these funny-shaped dice, as they roll off of the table and are clearly the Devil's invention. Further, I am dictating this post to one of my lackeys, who has risked eternal damnation by typing on this strange 'computer' thing (although he has taken the precaution of wearing oven mitts, sacrifing a chicken nugget (sacrificing whole chickens gets messy) and saying a Hail Mary between each posting). We fear change here in Grognard Country. Also electricity, combustion engines, daytime television and the Devil.
You're all still wrong. I, as always, am correct.
You're right Sebastion. I, as always, am correct.
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Not in space, when the space station has fully vented its atmosphere.Mice don't go Clang. They squeek.Dip them in bronze, let them cool, then drop them in a metal bucket. That should work.Wrong. If your ear is against the space station. It will still transmit sound even if no air will.
I am technically correct. The best kind of correct.
AHA!!! That also assumes centrifugal force-produced artificial gravitation.
So...yes and no.
Since I crafted the model, the station is stationary, hence the now bronzed mouse floats randomly into a gob of jello.Aha! A space station must be in orbit around a body that exerts gravity (otherwise not in orbit). If it wasn't then it would be a space ship or debris aka space junk. The jello also was blown apart or frozen from the decompression of the station.
Fear me and my fact twisting powers!
Space jello, from Tindalos, follows different physical laws entirely.
Again, I say, first blood drawn; yield or continue this exercise in futility.
Not in space, when the space station has fully vented its atmosphere.Mice don't go Clang. They squeek.Dip them in bronze, let them cool, then drop them in a metal bucket. That should work.Wrong. If your ear is against the space station. It will still transmit sound even if no air will.
I am technically correct. The best kind of correct.
AHA!!! That also assumes centrifugal force-produced artificial gravitation.
So...yes and no.
Since I crafted the model, the station is stationary, hence the now bronzed mouse floats randomly into a gob of jello.Aha! A space station must be in orbit around a body that exerts gravity (otherwise not in orbit). If it wasn't then it would be a space ship or debris aka space junk. The jello also was blown apart or frozen from the decompression of the station.
Fear me and my fact twisting powers!
Space jello, from Tindalos, follows different physical laws entirely.
Again, I say, first blood drawn; yield or continue this exercise in futility.
You're fulla garbage, werewoof!!!
Replying to yourself with your own alias? What has the world come to?
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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You're all still wrong. I, as always, am correct.Just agree with him. And he likes ta-stee cakes by lil Debbie.
Even though you agreed with me, you're still wrong because you didn't do it soon enough.
And I don't like lil debbie. Except those peanut butter crunch bar things. I used to have those in my lunch as a kid. Yummy.
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Regardless of what changes in D&D, I think there are always going to be players who do not want ANY change at all. They've spent so much time and energy studying a certain game that occasionally playing something different just isn't an option anymore.
In some cases you have rules lawyers. They have spent countless hours reading errata on the scout's skirmish ability, memorizing the damage penalty for moving through a wall of thorns and pointing out umpteen times on forums about when you can and can't take an attack of opportunity. They are the masters of the ins and outs of THE system (as long as that system does not change).
Sorry friend,
You are WRONG ! Rules lawyers want new editions, so that they can punish other players and DMs anew with their canonical newfound knowledge of the rules (and personal improvements), that the others can't refute yet.
I want 4e to arrive quickly, just so my groups get rid of some of them.
One foundation in rules lawyering is there should be rules for every situation. DM Fiat is anathema to the rules lawyer.
As books, faqs and errata come out for an edition, a steady stream of new rules evolve to cover strange cases. On average how many fireballs should a class 4 frigate withstand? Is there a penalty for shooting into river rapids? How many dolphins does it take to haul back a 20,000 pound statue from an underwater ruin?
A new edition generally only covers the basic scenarios a game might encounter. A rules lawyer shines in unveiling the esoteric, and new editions need time to build up a weapons of mass mechanics stockpile.
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You're all still wrong. I, as always, am correct.Just agree with him. And he likes ta-stee cakes by lil Debbie.Even though you agreed with me, you're still wrong because you didn't do it soon enough.
And I don't like lil debbie. Except those peanut butter crunch bar things. I used to have those in my lunch as a kid. Yummy.
You like McRib.
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One foundation in rules lawyering is there should be rules for every situation. DM Fiat is anathema to the rules lawyer.
As books, faqs and errata come out for an edition, a steady stream of new rules evolve to cover strange cases. On average how many fireballs should a class 4 frigate withstand? Is there a penalty for shooting into river rapids? How many dolphins does it take to haul back a 20,000 pound statue from an underwater ruin?
A new edition generally only covers the basic scenarios a game might encounter. A rules lawyer shines in unveiling the esoteric, and new editions need time to build up a weapons of mass mechanics stockpile.
We had a Fiat X1-9. Worst piece of crap ever built.
I hope 4e isn't the Fiat X1-9 of rpg's.
A new edition generally only covers the basic scenarios a game might encounter. A rules lawyer shines in unveiling the esoteric, and new editions need time to build up a weapons of mass mechanics stockpile.
A fair point, excepting that the rules are only esotaric if they are not commonly known. For example, I have played in a group where knowing the grappling rules was considered being a rules lawyer and in others where it was commonplace and no big deal.
In a new edition MUCH of the rules covering basic things will still be esoteric to the rest of the group but not to the well read and studied rules lawyer.
Sean Mahoney
In a new edition MUCH of the rules covering basic things will still be esoteric to the rest of the group but not to the well read and studied rules lawyer.
Basic things means easier for any slob to learn. Rules lawyers are generally elitists. The bar is usually set too low to enter the realms of rules lawyering in a new edition.
Rules are seen by the lawyer as a defense against the DM. A DM with a new game system will find more room for fiat. The rules in a new edition are usually looser until errata, FAQs, sourcebooks and play tests have come out. One thing a rules lawyer does not like are loose rules; these all allow others at the table to exploit loopholes and become (*gasp*) creative.
Ah, but without the rules lawyers to create a NEED for, well, rules clarifications/expansions/revisions, there'd be no reason for a new edition whatsoever... :D
Clarifications of an existing game system does not drive the need for a new game. Money does.
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Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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You're all still wrong. I, as always, am correct.Just agree with him. And he likes ta-stee cakes by lil Debbie.Even though you agreed with me, you're still wrong because you didn't do it soon enough.
And I don't like lil debbie. Except those peanut butter crunch bar things. I used to have those in my lunch as a kid. Yummy.
What about lil Debbie's Star Crunch?
This is all so Tiefling }:(>
