It am making perfect sense. Fat Joey am genius! Him lawyers not say so!
I have this picture in my had of Mephisto sitting around with Chthon and Blackheart and Zarathos playing cards on Tuesday night, and them all getting on him for this one.
"Okay, I get doing foul deeds and all of that, but, their marriage? No souls involved? I'm not feeling this on Dad,"
"No, seriously, did you give him his old life back, but let him remember that he can never tell Mary Jane about it, so that he is constantly tortured by it?"
"Um . . . no. That's a really good idea, Zarathos. I should have thought this over first. I did bring one of his friends that was dead back to life."
"How did that serve the forces of Darkness?"
"Well, he used to be a supervillain, so, maybe, I don't know, he'll go crazy again or something."
"Seriously dad, I never did anything this screwy when I was in charge. Yeah, I threw stuff at Wolverine, Punisher, and Ghost Rider to see how much they could kill in one panel, but this is just petty."
"I concerned myself with unleashing primordial chaos and annihilation across the multiverse, just to watch the souls of sentient beings unravel in an unholy eternal conflagration, and this is the best your generation can come up with . . . back in my day . . ."
"No more inviting Chthon to poker night."
"Okay, I'll admit it. I didn't want to tell the truth, because . . . well, I'm me. There was a soul at stake. Some blubbery Editor in Chief of a comic book company wrote this horrible story where he changed everything in the universe, and he needed my help fixing things, so I whispered a few changes in his ear that I thought would be more fun."
"Oh, okay, now I get it. You're a sly one dad."
"So, am I in Johnny Blaze anymore? I can't keep track."
"Just deal the cards Zarathos."
Now he can marry Gwen Stacy! Awesome!
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Happy endings and good relationships do not make for good drama. Think of it this way - if they hadn't done this, they wouldve eventually had them break up/get separated/etc. Just look at cyclops and phoenix.
Besides, now they can run a love-conquers-all storyline where they get back together.
Besides, now they can run a love-conquers-all storyline where they get back together.Eighteen months before it's in print, tops. I'm sure the story's already been plotted.
And Steve Rogers will be at the wedding. And Tony, now that he's been rescued from the Skrulls . . .
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And Steve Rogers will be at the wedding. And Tony, now that he's been rescued from the Skrulls . . .
Don't forget Bucky, and the twins of Gwen Stacey and Norman Osborn.
I'm not saying DC doesn't do some messed up stuff with continuity, but landing a writing job for Marvel must be analog to shooting an albatross with a crossbow.
Shooting an albatross with a crossbow? This one's closer to putting it on the endangered species list, and using the Iron Man armor. Ugh. I can't wait to see this come out in continuity elsewhere, e.g. the New Avengers.
One night, after a successful mission, over dinner:
Wolverine: Look, Pete, if you gotta get back to your wife, go for it. We'll see you in the morning.
Spider-Man: Wife? I have a wife? Strange sense of humor you've got there, Logan.
Wolverine: Didn't think you were hitting the liquor tonight, kid.
Spider-Man: I'm serious. Since when was I married?
Doctor Strange starts looking for the Orb of Agamotto . . . .
Oh, oh . . . I almost forgot Mar-Vell . . .
Sorry to jump in like this but I've been away from the comic for about two months and missed quite a bit. I'm starting to catch up but I was wondering... Did this whole RESET thing make everyone forget that he came out as Spiderman/Peter Parker? And I'm guessing the secret wars had a different Spiderman as leader because he no longer has his organic web slinging ability.
Granted I'm still not fully caught up but it still looks like the took the worst from the three Spidey universes and mashed them together to create a soap opera comic book.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Yes, no, and yes.
lets not forget a superpowered MJ came out of this as well.
*sigh* Part of the fun of Spiderman was seeing how they worked together on problems, both in and out of spandex/armour.
Like when Banner was the merged hulk (no, I don't accept this 'professor persona' crap) and Betty was an equal partner.
Yet another reason I make mine anything but Marvel.
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Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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A poster on the CBX forum had a great theory on this:
Spider-man is actually captured by the skrulls and kept in a catatonic state (ala the Matrix). He was about to burst his bonds and discover this, so the skrulls "killed" Aunt May and started the ball rolling. (This is all in Spidey's mind, so that he stays under control). Mephisto is a construct used to calm Peter down and "reboot" his mind control - basically to keep his mind occupied on the mental landscape the skrulls created to keep him out of things.
The poster's theory is that Spidey, along with other heroes (including Steve Rogers) that were replaced by skrulls, are in the same area and experiencing similar visions. Eventually, one will wake up and the battle for earth will begin.
The core of this theory is that none of the events in Brand New Day have had any impact, nor have they even been mentioned, in the other Marvel titles.
I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but thought it was an interesting idea (and a hope that the Brand New Day can be reversed in some way).
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Look at Peter's reactions in "House of M'. In that storyline, the Scarlet Witch tapped into Charles Xavier's powers to rewrite Marvel continuity, making it happier for many people. Peter ended up with a better life, married to Gwen Stacy.
When he realized what the Witch had done, Peter fluctuated between deep grief and white-hot rage.
I cannot reconcile that reaction to 'House of M' --in which someone messed around with reality and with his marriage, while still bring back a beloved long-lost soul-- with he desions at the end of One Last Day.
He made the wrong choice, and he did so for the wrong reasons. Mary Jane's justifications were unfathomable.
Until Peter wises up and tries to make things right, I'm not buying any of the SPIDER-MAN titles.
Now he can marry Gwen Stacy! Awesome!
Isn't she busy being a skank for Norman Osborn?
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Given that Dr. Strange had pulled off similar stunt in the past, it's not much of a stretch for the Father of Lies himself.
There's no use in being a Dr. Strange fan if I can't be pedantic here and there. I think you might be thinking of the time when the editorial board at Marvel decided that Dr. Strange needed to be a little more conventional as super-heroes go, and gave him the "secret identity" of Stephen Saunders.
That wasn't a trick that Strange himself could have pulled off. It was a rewrite of history (the first of two) by the entity known as Eternity.
As regards your second post, I think you picked the point where we agree: Peter Parker's agreement with Mephisto was a tragic mistake. This being fiction, though, and heroic fiction at that, the "rest of the story" should have Peter come to his senses and do what he can to make things right. Or: if you want to write a tragedy, have Peter find out the truth of the matter and then look at his aunt and give in.
But what we have is all wrong. Peter and Mary Jane made a terrible decision, a deal with the devil, and the only person who really and knowingly pays the price is their unborn daughter. There's no regrets, no anger or shame, no moral decisions. It's just a new, artificial reality overlaid on the old one.
Oh, and, really, am I the only one incredulous that Mephisto can pull this kind of crap and have nobody --not Dr. Strange, not the Silver Surfer, not Uatu, not Hela-- notice? Am I the only one incredulous that none of those folks seems to care?
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Well, but Mephisto didn't just drop Spider-Man and MJ in their own little pocket universe. He rewrote a lot of reality, more than was probably necessary. (Getting rid of the "second generation powers" like natural web-shooting and wrist fangs...) I would wager that continuity all the way back into the Clone Saga has been altered. And Spidey in the cornerstone of the Marvel Universe. Changes in his history radiate out to the far corners.
As for Hela, she's denied at least one soul, May's.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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And Layla Miller didn't notice either don't forget.
Plus if he can muck with reality enough to erase Peter's identity from the entire planet, bring Harry back from the dead. Affect the minds of Layla Miller, Dr. Strange, Wong, Brother Voodoo, etc and not be noticed, why hasn't he just consumed the planet already?
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Poorly written and porly planned. The biggest thing I haven't been abl to figure out yet is what Mephisto gains by breaking Peter and MJ up. More importantly, what deal did MJ make with Mephisto that she sems to remember what no one else does.
I thought I had read that it was putting the genie back in the bottle regarding his coming out in public as Spidey.
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I will echo what most have said here. I remember stopping buying spidey when the clone wars started... afterwards I picked it back up. And on the night I read that dreadful one more day mephisto crap, I dropped spidey again.
Unfortunately my choice not to read crap has resulted, over the years, in me not having the "collector's critical" titles, so my collection is worth crap, but that's another story...
We can play as many "what if" scenarios as we want, but the reality is that it wasn't a sensical "story" event, but more a "political" decision by Marvel who after Spider-Man 3, decided to cancel the whole bio-spidey and "put it back the way he was" to satisfy, perhaps, Quesada? :P
Dunno who whined and moaned, but someone wanted things undone so they made up a stupid story that holds no water and pissed 75% of the readership... perhaps more?
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Poorly written and porly planned. The biggest thing I haven't been abl to figure out yet is what Mephisto gains by breaking Peter and MJ up. More importantly, what deal did MJ make with Mephisto that she sems to remember what no one else does.I thought I had read that it was putting the genie back in the bottle regarding his coming out in public as Spidey.
Sure, but that could have been accomplished by having yet another clone crawl out of the woodwork. Or have Daredevil show up as Spidey while Peter is out in public and then hve Peter make some cheesy comment about helping Spidey out and having it backfire. You know, like has been done in a million othr stories when it looked like Peter was going to be outed as Spider-Man.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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In fact, aren't the MVP clones using the iron spider armour? Or what about Mac-as-Venom-as-Spiderman? Wtih shapeshifters/image inducers etc.
I'd actually have liked it if they ran with Peter 'outing' himself. Dealing with JJJ's lawsuit, MJ taking some HTH training from the Black Widow, her dealing with trying to be a model when everyone wants 'tell all' stories. Peter being a dad. The two of them talking with Reed and Sue about marriage, or the Sentry's wife...
I don't mind characters evolving, Peter and MJ evolved. If you want 'single white webslinger' read ultimate spiderman.
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In fact, aren't the MVP clones using the iron spider armour? Or what about Mac-as-Venom-as-Spiderman? Wtih shapeshifters/image inducers etc.
I'd actually have liked it if they ran with Peter 'outing' himself. Dealing with JJJ's lawsuit, MJ taking some HTH training from the Black Widow, her dealing with trying to be a model when everyone wants 'tell all' stories. Peter being a dad. The two of them talking with Reed and Sue about marriage, or the Sentry's wife...
I don't mind characters evolving, Peter and MJ evolved. If you want 'single white webslinger' read ultimate spiderman.
+1 There seem to be so many Spider-Men running around the Marvel universe lately that no one would believe that Peter Parker, High School Teacher was not just sme guy looking for publicity.
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+1 There seem to be so many Spider-Men running around the Marvel universe lately that no one would believe that Peter Parker, High School Teacher was not just sme guy looking for publicity.In fact, aren't the MVP clones using the iron spider armour? Or what about Mac-as-Venom-as-Spiderman? Wtih shapeshifters/image inducers etc.
I'd actually have liked it if they ran with Peter 'outing' himself. Dealing with JJJ's lawsuit, MJ taking some HTH training from the Black Widow, her dealing with trying to be a model when everyone wants 'tell all' stories. Peter being a dad. The two of them talking with Reed and Sue about marriage, or the Sentry's wife...
I don't mind characters evolving, Peter and MJ evolved. If you want 'single white webslinger' read ultimate spiderman.
+2 I quite like the evolution of Peter Parker and MJ myself, and I would have lived with Aunt May being dead... what is she anyway, 158 years old by now?!?
Quite frankly, some of these were neccessary story developments. Spiderman simply does not work as a concept without the secret identiy to be a major part of complicating Peter Parker's life. It's one of the core things about Spiderman more than other superheros like Batman or Superman, or the Fantastic Four, or Cap America, Peter Parker's mask has always been a major albatross on his personal life ever since he made the decision that led to his uncle's death.And I also feel it was an improvement to ditch the "bio-spikey" and the weird mystical/occult elements that had been shoehorned into the spidey mythos, One More Day was a badly needed reboot of the character.
I can agree with you about the need for a secret identity for Spider-man, but I think that the outed identity storylines needed to be considered a bit more before thrusting Parker's identity back in the bottle, especially in a post-Civil War world. When the Skrulls invaded, the option to put the genie in the bottle could have been written in at that point if need be, and still could.
The mystical elements I could live without as well. But the actual upgrades to his powers I think were needed. Spider-man has survived many years due to his phenomenal agility, well-rounded combat skills, experience, and his intelligence (as well as other traits). But with his foes upgrading themselves every few years and new more powerful foes appearing, after a point you have to say, "And Spider-man survived this how exactly?" With all the benefits at his disposal, sooner or later you'd expect even his luck would run out. Other heroes have had their powers fluctuate over time, including Spidey himself, but I don't think they really gave his powers time to really settle. His strength went up but not drastically, he had senses improve, but until he got the Iron Spider armor from Mr. Stark he was still as easily damaged as you and I by any attack that actually managed to connect. Even then the armor only could repel small-arms fire; it wouldn't do much against, say, repulsor blasts.
One More Day, in addition to its effects on the mythos, took all the toys away. While Spidey isn't about the toys, I now keep asking what he's going to do over time as he adds more villains to his gallery and they keep getting tougher. He can't hide with the Fantastic Four all the time after all.
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I think it would be fun if a "kickass" or "punisher" type of character would come "clean up" after spidey... that would be a cool storyline if you ask me (i.e. all the major villains he's put in jail end up escaping, and the incarceration never redeems or rehabilitates them... therefore, a prison guard who murder the villains in their sleep would be cool... or something perhaps less obvious but equally cool...)
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My main problem with what happened (and my gods I have many problems with it) Is most of the stuff could easily have been done without the entire deal with the devil. Also the rebottling of his identity is already out because he has re-revealed who he is to his group of Avengers and the Fantastic Four. With any luck Disney will tell Joe to pike off
Brand New Day is the best thing to ever happen to Spidey.
If I ever met Joey Q, I'd shake his hand. Then I'd buy him a steak dinner.
Over the course of that dinner I'd say "Thank you Joe. Thank you for making Marvel Comics better than they've been in 30 years. How about some desert?"
That's what I'd do anyway.
Amazing Spider Man has something it's been missing for years.
When Stan and Steve and John invented the character Peter Parker so many, many years ago the thing that separated Pete from other Superheroes at the time was that his love life was a total soap opera.He was unlucky in love. And it was good to read about. His costumed slug-fests were secondary to his romantical exploits and misunderstandings.
It was an important part of the character. Spidey's supporting cast was what really made him stand out. And when he was married, his supporting cast was set in stone for decades, unchanging, stagnant.
Now when I read ASM, I dunno what's going to happen next.Pete's always into some nutty affair or another. And that's when the character's at his best.
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Amazing Spider Man has something it's been missing for years.
When Stan and Steve and John invented the character Peter Parker so many, many years ago the thing that separated Pete from other Superheroes at the time was that his love life was a total soap opera.He was unlucky in love. And it was good to read about. His costumed slug-fests were secondary to his romantical exploits and misunderstandings.
It was an important part of the character. Spidey's supporting cast was what really made him stand out. And when he was married, his supporting cast was set in stone for decades, unchanging, stagnant.
I can agree with this much. However, I don't agree that OMD was the only, best, or even good way to go about getting back the old school feel of Spidey.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Thank you Hazel, I find your position flawed, but accept your belief of it at face value.
If I may address your points.
In the 20 years between MJ and Peter being married and the retcon-bomb, his cast of characters changed, saying that they were stagnate would be incorrect. Using Wikipedia, we see that in this time, the Green Goblin returned, Mayday was born, Aunt May is killed, then gets better. MJ dies and gets better, new foes appear and old ones change/are upgraded. Flash Thompson is put in a wheelchair, Peter becomes a teacher, Eddie Brock is redeemed, Kraven dies, DocOc dies (and gets better) Peter finds some peace with Aunt May and he grows up. Heck even May got some development, in finding a dating partner with Jarvis.
All that tossed away, in an urge to return the character to a 1986 stasis. A stasis that was the norm in Ultimate Spiderman.
Lesson 1. Comic book Characters don't advance. they don't age.
I don't know about that. Look at Luke Cage. That character has really come a long way since his "Sweet Christmas!" days. I'd say there's been some character advancement there.
And Hawkeye seems to have aged about 10 years in the past 2. The poor guy looks exhausted.
Thank you Hazel, I find your position flawed, but accept your belief of it at face value.
If I may address your points.
In the 20 years between MJ and Peter being married and the retcon-bomb, his cast of characters changed, saying that they were stagnate would be incorrect. Using Wikipedia, we see that in this time, the Green Goblin returned, Mayday was born, Aunt May is killed, then gets better. MJ dies and gets better, new foes appear and old ones change/are upgraded. Flash Thompson is put in a wheelchair, Peter becomes a teacher, Eddie Brock is redeemed, Kraven dies, DocOc dies (and gets better) Peter finds some peace with Aunt May and he grows up. Heck even May got some development, in finding a dating partner with Jarvis.
All that tossed away, in an urge to return the character to a 1986 stasis. A stasis that was the norm in Ultimate Spiderman.
I don't see how that was all tossed away though.
The green Goblin is still returned from the dead. Mayday was still born. Aunt may was killed then got better, then got shot then got better. Then got married. None of the changes to his villains were wiped away in one fell swoop.
Flash Thompson is still in a wheelchair. Eddie Brock still has the same issues he's always had. Kraven's still dead. None of that stuff has changed.
Almost nothing that you mentioned was wiped away ( except for the part about Aunt May knockin' boots with Jarvis. And between you and me, that's something I'd like never mentioned again. On account of it's gross.) All the stuff that you listed still happened. Pete just isn't married anymore, and the Public forgot his identity.
That's a change I'm willing to go along with as long as the stories that come out of it are good. And they are good. So it's all good.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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As for Hela, ... She wouldn't get [May Parker's soul] anyway. The Parkers are not Norse, nor do they worship the Viking pantheon. Come to think of it Hela's supply of new souls would probably be wearing kind of thin if it wasn't for those New Age types. :)
You've confused comics reality with D&D pantheons there, LazarX.
When Hela refused to allow anyone to die, that was anyone, not solely people who worshipped her. (Heck, not even animals were dying.) She's the goddess of death, which the Norse recognized. Whether Hel is the same plane as Hades, and what happens to souls that fall to Mephisto... unresolved.
(Indeed, a 'Hela versus Mephisto' storyline might be passing strange.)
I'm at work and sadly I don't have time to get into all the reason I disagree with OMD, so instead I'm just going to copy/paste a (slightly edited) post I made on the subject when it first happened:
I have to argue that OMD was bad on both a character level and a writer level. Both for the same reason. Within four issues Joe Q's pride has destroyed Peter's viability as a likable character.
We all know Spidey's mantra, the lesson that he learned at a terrible cost. With great power must come great responsibility. They tried to bait and switch the reader, to make us believe that Peter felt responsible for May getting shot. But he wasn't, not completely at least. Look at the flow of events. May was shot because Kingpin knew Pete was Spider-Man. He knew that because Peter gave up his secret ID during Civil War. But why did he? Because he thought he was on the right side. A view point that was encouraged and supported MJ and May. They all thought it was the right thing to do, they all share responsibility for their actions. Peter's deal with the devil wasn't about taking responsibility it was about avoiding it. Everyone loses loved one eventually- to age, to disease and sometimes to snipers. When that happens it becomes the responsibility of those left behind to live their lives in a way that would make the departed proud. Peter's decision goes past a terrible, or stupid choice. It was a selfish, childish, irresponsible decision. One that goes against everything the character was. It's ludicrous and insulting to be asked to believe that he would do that. Every story that is told post OMD is tainted because Peter's become a representable person. Congratulations, Quesada was able to get rid of the marriage, all it cost him was destruction of Peter's viability as a character.
In case it wasn't clear. I'm not a huge fan of OMD.