Recently in a game, we had a situation arise that never came up before. A druid has an animal companion, and rather than choose a new companion upon leveling up, decided to improve the current companion as per the chart in the PHB.
According to the chart, the animal gains 2 HD. The companion is an eagle, which is usually a small creature with one HD. However, in the Monster Manual, the entry for eagle states taht they can be advanced to medium having 2-3 HD, though they cannot grow any larger.
So the question is, does the increase in HD for the eagle affect its size? That is, does the small eagle now become a medium eagle?
With no clear answer, we decided to let the DM and players decide, but they are both about 50-50 on the size change. Everyone agrees that the companion could never grow larger than medium, since eagles can not be larger than medium (that is, the animal, eagle, not the magic beast giant eagle). The size progression stops for animal eagles at medium.
A size change would not be that drastic, as the eagle is 3' tall with a wingspan of 7', and going to medium would make it about 4' tall with a wingspan of 9' or so. It won't break the game (and the companion is used mainly as "eyes in the sky").
What do you think?
My feeling is that it just increases in HD but not in size. It just becomes more resilent as the Druid goes up in levels. Adventuring has just made it a stronger, tougher version of a normal eagle.
Chris P is right, the animal companion doesn't increase in size.
But... it wouldn't be gamebreaking to allow it to grow. If you have a companion go from Medium to Large, then you have to watch out. Small to Medium usually doesn't change much.
Same opinion here. Animal companions get "enhanced" not "advanced".
|
With no clear answer, we decided to let the DM and players decide, but they are both about 50-50 on the size change. Everyone agrees that the companion could never grow larger than medium, since eagles can not be larger than medium (that is, the animal, eagle, not the magic beast giant eagle). The size progression stops for animal eagles at medium.A size change would not be that drastic, as the eagle is 3' tall with a wingspan of 7', and going to medium would make it about 4' tall with a wingspan of 9' or so. It won't break the game (and the companion is used mainly as "eyes in the sky").
We ruled that it did get bigger. using the str amounts and weight chart for PC classes in the PHB it became an important part of the game, having the halfling thief get carried by the medium eagle and get dropped into flanking position.
|
The size does not advance as the Animal is not advancing as an Animal, it's gaining some special features as a function of the Druid's Class Feature (which means that these enhancements will go away if it is dismissed, or the Druid dies).
However, if your Druid *wants* to advance his Eagle to a size Medium (with the extra HD, Str, etc that that includes), have him treat it as the next higher level Companion (so the 'Advanced Eagle' would count as one of the Companions he could choose at 4th level, and his effective Druid level would be -3 for the other enhancements it gains from his Class Feature).
Note that Animal Companions gain extra feats and skills based on the HD they are gaining from their relationship with the Druid (feats and skills that will vanish if the bond is severed, obviously, as the extra HD are lost). A 'riding dog' becomes even more effective a choice when the Druid teaches it the Light Armor Proficiency feat and straps some 'chain shirt barding' to puppy!
Thanks for the input so far. I think I was leaning 55-45 in favor of the size increase and now am swayed to 55-45 against. :)
Some additional info and thoughts:
The eagle is specifically a golden eagle, which wikipedia and other sites list as one of the larger species of eagle, so to say it is approaching the limits of Small vs. Medium is not a stretch.
The player has come up with a list of pros and cons.
Pro: The character has taken care to RP caring for and interacting with the companion, specifically making sure to feed her well and ensure she is always healthy. Thus with natural molting and growth combined with the mystic connection between man and nature, it could conceivably grow a little bit. Additionally, some sourcebook (perhaps Unearthed Arcana or maybe the Master of the Wild from 3.0), provided "rituals" for increasing a characters companion so that it would not always be the same as first level. Admittedly, the latter is tenuous, but shows a possible precedent.
Con: Nowhere is a size change explicitly stated, while there are explicit bonuses to Str and Dex and increased skills and feats. With the detail of animal companion advancement in the PHB and SRD, it seems conspicuous by its absence that there is no mention of size change. Plus, it would seem a little strange if one evening the eagle is the size of a halfling and the next day the size of a dwarf. The joke was, "ate a whole deer, eh?"
I guess the question boils down to a chicken and egg query. In the Monster Manula, does the increase in HD come before the size change, or the size change before the increase in HD?
I have a feeling that what we may do when the next game session arise is leave it in teh hads of fate. Take out a gold-flecked d10 and say if a Fibbonacci number comes up, size change, if not, no size change. (Can you tell I got bored with odd or even? I used to roll for prime or non-prime, but that's only even odds for a d8 or d6, though I suppose we could weight the odds by using a d12 or d20).
|
|
I linked to the SRD above. Officially, the size doesn't change.
'A 1st-level druid’s companion is completely typical for its kind except as noted below.' So it can't be Advanced or Elite or have any sort of template.
On the other hand, if the Druid *wants* his Eagle to grow, it would happen gradually (this can also occur semi-retroactively, with the GM stating that, 'You'd barely noticed that Fluffy seems to have been growing a good pace, probably because you see him every day, but today you are looking at him and wow, he's really filled out!'), and should be taken into consideration by increasing the Druid level at which the Animal Companion can be taken. (So Fluffy would get the increased HD and attributes for Advancement, per the Monster Manual, but would be treated as one of the Druids 4th level choices, so it would have slightly less of the Class Feature Advancements, being at Druid level -3 for purposes of bonus HD / Natural Armor / etc.)
Improving Monsters has the charts for increases gained by size, and since the 4th level Druid choices include a selection of 3 and 4 HD beasties, a 3 HD Medium Eagle seems to be an appropriate choice to join them, having less HD than a Dire Bat, for example, but three attacks that do 1d6 instead of the Bats one attack for 1d8.
But this would be purely up to the GM, since there are no specific rules allowing this sort of thing. You might even feel that a Medium-sized Eagle is a tad weak compared to say, a Dire Badger or Bison, and allow the player some other slight perk (using the Standard Array instead of the general 10/11 array for animals, for instance), or make the Eagle a special case and count as a 3rd level choice (meaning it *will* be able to get the 18th-20th final enhancements, assuming the Druid makes it to those levels, but only when the Druid hits 20th!).
I'd definitely allow the Druid to 'grow' his Animal Companion, but different animals gain different levels of advantage from Advancement, so I'd try to keep an eye out on exactly what the new Advanced Animal Companion 'counts as' for purposes of the Alternative Animal Companion rules. Advancing a Dire Badger or Wolverine up a size category can turn the little blighter into a cuisinart!
I agree with the others, from the SRD:
Bonus HD: Extra eight-sided (d8) Hit Dice, each of which gains a Constitution modifier, as normal. Remember that extra Hit Dice improve the animal companion’s base attack and base save bonuses. An animal companion’s base attack bonus is the same as that of a druid of a level equal to the animal’s HD. An animal companion has good Fortitude and Reflex saves (treat it as a character whose level equals the animal’s HD). An animal companion gains additional skill points and feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster’s Hit Dice.
It details exactly what is gained, size is not one of them. To assume that the bonus HD = advanced animal HD, then that would have to mean that some animals can't even be advanced (see their advancment line in their entry).
One of the big confusions is people not understanding the advancement line in the MM. A particular animal does not increase in HD (once full grown), instead animals with more HD than standard are unusual examples of the type of creature. So you might have a mutant wolf that is large sized, but a normal wolf does not get any larger than the normal medium size.
Increased Hit Dice: Intelligent creatures that are not humanoid in shape, and nonintelligent monsters, can advance by increasing their Hit Dice. Creatures with increased Hit Dice are usually superior specimens of their race, bigger and more powerful than their run-of-the-mill fellows.
If you want to allow increasing size though, feel free to use my houserule:
Animals can be improved using the handle animal skill.
To improve (advance) an animal it requires:
1. Handle animal check DC 20 + (New HD)
2. Cost of 100 gp x (New HD), if a person trains the animal themselves the costs is 1/2 as much.
3. Three weeks of training time, with at least two hours a day dedicated to training, for non-feat obtaining HD. If the increase in HD would allow a feat then it takes four weeks.
Improved animals are difficult to handle and do not respond to handlers/riders who do not have at least 2 more HD than the animal. Druids and Rangers can use this to improve their companions but the difficulty to control still applies.
If in the animal entry, an increase in HD is associated with a larger size, then the animal enlarges as it is advanced. This can be used on animals that would not normally be allowed to advance in the MM. An animal with a fractional HD can be advanced to a full HD, just use the above rules for 1 HD (note it will only take 3 weeks to train, since the animal should already have a feat).
An animal can only be improved by one hit die at a time.
If you want to allow increasing size though, feel free to use my houserule: IMPROVING ANIMALSThat's pretty cool! Thanks for sharing.
Thanks, I developed it to solve some problems I saw.
1. Nobody was taking ranks in handle animal, I wanted to make the skill more attractive.2. People were always complaining how their mounts kept dying at high levels, horses just didn't have the staying power once fireballs began flying around.
3. I was dissatisfied with how much weaker a ranger's companion was than the druid's.
|
|
It can be very gamebreaking to allow druid animal companions to grow. We had a druid in our campaign with a wolverine and he believed that adding hit dice should follow the size rules in MM. When the wolverine grew from Med to Large, he added the +8 Str (on top of the Str increase from being an animal companion). This creature far outdistanced the PC fighter in melee with its 20-something Str plus reach for being large. It was obviously broken. I believe one of the Sage Advice columns (can't remember which Dragon issue) addressed this topic and ruled animal companions do not increase in size per the MM.
... plus reach for being large.
I wouldn't think it should have gotten reach being a Large(long) creature instead of a Large(tall) creature. Just as a lion doesn't have reach but an ogre does.
Thanks all; that pretty much decides it. No size change.
Thanks Set and pres man. I read the SRD pretty closely, but finding no explicit denial of growth was left wondering. Combining the passages you hihglighted, it certainly makes sense that there is no size change. Thanks Scribe for referencing the FAQ; I hadn't even thought to look there.
Also very nifty house rule for Handle Animal. I like making skills more useful. Our DM has house ruled that animals can learn an attack type in place of a trick (such as bull rush or overrun), as he has ruled those are attacks (most) animals would not make naturally.
Michael, I agree that Medium animals going to Large can be very unbalancing, with the relatively huge bonuses imparted for that size change. To compound our dilemma, our first reference had a typo of Str improving by only +2; I heartily agree +4 would be pushing it, as then the eagle would be nearly as strong as our primary fighter.
Again, thanks all for the well-reasoned and rapid responses. Good gaming!
I think there was a 3.0 option that let you increase the size for a small XP cost. Can't remember where I got it though--Dragon? I know I let the druid's wolf get larger in my 3.0 campaign and carried it over to 3.5. The damn thing got to be as big as a horse. It became an issue when they started operating out of a large town. the size was a trade-off: it was better in combat (awesome trips), but the RP side-effects as well as issues such as how to you get a 2000-pound wolf across a rope bridge balanced it out.
Looks like the issue is resolved, but my biggest problem would have been the double dipping in favor of the animal companion. They already get ability boosts from their druid master increasing in levels; even the +2 Str from advancing a creature to Medium from Small can be a potential problem, although the issue is much more likely to brake things when it's Medium to Large, as previously mentioned. I had a player do that with a wolf once, and it quickly became apparent that we had made a mistake.
Another related issue is ability increases. Just for clarity's sake, an animal can't increase their Intelligence above a 2. That same player wanted to make a wolf that could talk, or at least understand language to an extent, by placing it's ability boost in Intelligence when it ahieved 4 HD. The cap for animal intelligence is 2.
That same player wanted to make a wolf that could talk, or at least understand language to an extent, by placing it's ability boost in Intelligence when it ahieved 4 HD. The cap for animal intelligence is 2.That's what magic items are for ... collar of Intelligence or wolf's bonnet of language comprehension and so forth.
Rez
That's what the awaken spell is for.
This article will solve most of that trouble. It makes trained animals pretty cool and useful for an adventurer, if you have the right kind of Player who is interested in dealing with them. I have a novice Player in my new campaign whose Ranger has maxed HA from the start.
Nice, but wouldn't really solve the problem my group was having. Adding a few extra tricks for people that don't worry about tricks very much isn't going to do the ... trick.
A) Don't bring them into battle;
Well, when you are attacked while traveling, that really isn't an option. Besides which that kind of misses the point, people want their mounts to be useful in combat, not to have to be abandoned at the first sign of danger.
or
B) Give them a blanket of resistance +3, barding +3, collar of natural armor +2, horseshoes of speed, nose-ring of protection +2, bridle of frost breath and so forth. Come on ... if you're high level you can afford it, particularly if you value your mount.
The problem is hit points. When you are riding a horse that has 22-30 hp and fighting things that can do 18 hp of damage in a single hit, and has multiple attacks per round, add in spells and such, it is just not really viable. It is like saying that PCs would be fine with not getting more HP as they level, they could just get magic items. Sorry that doesn't really work.
The aforementioned Ranger traded her 2nd Level Combat Style Special Ability for an Animal Companion at -1 Level vs. a Druid. That solves that problem.
And sort of removes the flavor of being a Ranger (the PC class), though perhaps not a "ranger" (a foresty nature warrior type).
Frankly, a Ranger could give up Track at 1st level, take a wolf Animal Companion and train it to do the tracking for them, then pick up the Feat after a couple levels when their Survival and potential to track begins to significantly exceed their companion's.
No new rules needed, just the flexibility to trade out existing Special Ability and Feat slots to tailor the Class to what you want it to be ... a Fighting Animal Trainer rather than a Wilderness Sole-Survivor.
No new rules needed? All you are doing here is suggesting new rules. You choose to solve the problems in your fashion, I choose a different fashion, a more general one that could benefit all PCs, neither is more "correct".