This thread is ridiculous. I was expecting it to be about oral sex.Well, yeah, I mean, 4E blows, right?
-DM Jeff
BWAAHAHAHAHAAA! *snerk*
Oh great, now I have frappuccino all over my monitor. Thanks so much DM Jeff! ;P
-The Gneech
Sebastina says he is Hasbro CEO, would he talk about "oral sex" in Hasbro Board in front of the rest of the Board members, I doubt it.
You obviously don't know the rest of the Hasbro Board. Milton "the Snake" Weisburg once brought six hookers, a pound of blow, and a doberman to a meeting. That was a hell of a night - I think it might have been when we came up with taking out gnomes and replacing them with tieflings.
Besides, if I used my real name, I'd really be concerned about you hitting on me. Particularly when you spell my name Sebastina. I just don't swing that way.
Well I assume I am wrong, you are right and yours is an example to the comunity to follow.
My point is simple: If someone is going to irrespect or speak ill about someone or to a community of decent and educated people as we are (that includes you), that person should at least say who he is. It is easy to speak roughly or even unrespect others when you are protect by a login name but those same people would never talk like that if they know that people know their identity.
Sebastina says he is Hasbro CEO, would he talk about "oral sex" in Hasbro Board in front of the rest of the Board members, I doubt it.
That is my point, simple and clear.What includes me? Am I part of the "community of decent and educated people" even though I don't have my real name as my screen name or am I part of the someone who "is going to irrespect or speak ill"?
To be honest, it is hard for me to respect "educated" people when neither "irrespect" nor "unrespect" are English words. (At least not how you used them.)
Aside from that, I can understand that you feel that it is easy for people to hide behind a screen name -- yet when Sebastian indicated that "Sebastian" was his real name, your reply was "so". Well, "so" he apparently is not hiding behind his name and therefore what you just posted above does not apply.
And believe me when I say that I firmly believe that given the chance, Sebastian would say in person all that he has posted -- including to the CEO of Hasbro.
You too are right I am wrong and excuse my bad English I am not an English native speaker.
BWAAHAHAHAHAAA! *snerk*
Oh great, now I have frappuccino all over my monitor. Thanks so much DM Jeff! ;P
-The Gneech
Just don't get it on your keyboard, the stuff never fully comes out and you end up craving a mocha frapachino every time you check your email.
COULD THE KIDS POLLUTING MY THREAD WITH THEIR STORIES ABOUT ORAL SEX, THEIR REAL NAME AND ELSE STOP WRITING ININTERESTING STUFF AND LEAVE A CLEAN SPACE FOR PEOPLE TO LEAVE THEIR THOUGHTS!!!????
Thanks!
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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COULD THE KIDS POLLUTING MY THREAD WITH THEIR STORIES ABOUT ORAL SEX, THEIR REAL NAME AND ELSE STOP WRITING ININTERESTING STUFF AND LEAVE A CLEAN SPACE FOR PEOPLE TO LEAVE THEIR THOUGHTS!!!????
Thanks!
Could you quit posting threads about your particular flavor of beating the 4e dead horse? If you do, I promise I'll quit posting on them.
Oral sex
Thanks you for your kindness...
;))
Just don't get it on your keyboard, the stuff never fully comes out and you end up craving a mocha frapachino every time you check your email.
BWAAHAHAHAHAAA! *snerk*
Oh great, now I have frappuccino all over my monitor. Thanks so much DM Jeff! ;P
-The Gneech
In fairness, I do that anyway.
Mmmm ... frappucciiiiino...
-The Gneech
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Yes, I realize that the Paizo 4th edition board has become the leading producer of 4th edition flavored Hateraid.
That is in fact what makes me so mad. Not that D&D is changing and I have no clue if the new editon will be good or not, but that I can't find a rational discussion abouu the topic anywhere around here.
I check these boards from work during dull moments. I can't get to WotC's boards, they're blocked. I want to hear actual news, and have intresting discussion with the people here about the way the game might be changing. That just isn't happening here.
Another poster made this comment recently (check the "am I alone" thread), and I want to repeat what I said there. The only way this place will not be a 4e-hater echo chamber is if people like you take the time to post your thoughts in an intelligent and thoughtful manner (as you did here) without falling into the traps baited with ridiculous assertions/lies about 4e. You aren't going to change the mind of the slavering anti-4e fanatic who didn't want the new edition no matter how it was marketed or what it contained. Don't waste your time even trying.
But, you can engage in an intelligent discussion with a number of people about the changes. They are here, you just need to choose to acknowledge them over the constant noise of "Hasbro hates gamers and made 4e as a personal insult to the entire gaming community." I encourage you to continue posting, continue engaging people who are on the fence, and just ignore the burning flames below.
COULD THE KIDS POLLUTING MY THREAD WITH THEIR STORIES ABOUT ORAL SEX, THEIR REAL NAME AND ELSE STOP WRITING ININTERESTING STUFF AND LEAVE A CLEAN SPACE FOR PEOPLE TO LEAVE THEIR THOUGHTS!!!????
Thanks!
Could you quit posting threads about your particular flavor of beating the 4e dead horse? If you do, I promise I'll quit posting on them.
** spoiler omitted **
Could you please allow me to express myself freely on a message board open to everyone?
And if you don't like my stuff or this message, why do you bother coming here to write something?
Are you one of these persons who think they are the masters of science and intelligence and others are way beneath them - and in dire need of their precious enlightment? Do you feel that gives you the right to bash/joke the people you don't agree with? Learn that intelligence starts with a sense of listening, and that there are always smarter people than you - which I am not pretentious enough to revendicate .
So that's a real easy one: participate in the discussion or move on. Thanks
You obviously don't know the rest of the Hasbro Board. Milton "the Snake" Weisburg once brought six hookers, a pound of blow, and a doberman to a meeting. That was a hell of a night - I think it might have been when we came up with taking out gnomes and replacing them with tieflings.
Besides, if I used my real name, I'd really be concerned about you hitting on me. Particularly when you spell my name Sebastina. I just don't swing that way.
FTW of the whole damn thread. I laughed like a drain.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Could you please allow me to express myself freely on a message board open to everyone?
Only until Paizo finally realizes the need for a dictatorial tyrant to control the thoughts posted on these boards and gives me the actual power to moderate.
And if you don't like my stuff or this message, why do you bother coming here to write something?
Beats working.
Are you one of these persons who think they are the masters of science and intelligence and others are way beneath them? And then that give them the right to bash the one they don't agree with? Learn that intelligence starts with a sense of listening, and that there are always smarter people than you - which I am not pretentious enough to revendicate .
Hi, welcome to the boards, I'm Sebastian. That's what I do.
So that's a real easy one: participate in the discussion or move on. Thanks
I think you said it best:
Could you please allow me to express myself freely on a message board open to everyone?
Yeah right... Have a cigar, mate. Just walk your way and take your pretentiousness with you.
COULD THE KIDS POLLUTING MY THREAD WITH THEIR STORIES ABOUT ORAL SEX, THEIR REAL NAME AND ELSE STOP WRITING ININTERESTING STUFF AND LEAVE A CLEAN SPACE FOR PEOPLE TO LEAVE THEIR THOUGHTS!!!????
Thanks!
And don't mention the war! Or coffee. I can't give into the desire for another cup of Starbucks for over an hour.
But, so this thread doesn't get axed totally for being /threadjacked, I'll respond to your first post. Lets go over the reasons you think that 4th edition is gonna flop, and you can have my opinions on them.
I refuse to say humble opinion, because I'm not a humbler person. And people only say "In my humble opinion" because it makes they think it makes their opinion more important, as opposed to being less important.
Anyway, onward...
WOTC is running after too many customers (WOW youngsters and trad RPG gamers), some of whom are not even aware of D&D and don't even care about it(-and seeing the total artistic/commercial flop that D&D Online was, what's their opinion of D&D anyway?)
Well, it is sort of true that the people WotC hopes to get playing D&D 4th are the same people that MMO games and CCG games are going after. They are all going after gamers.
The problem is, that the people who play D&D are the same people who play MMOs and CCGs. I've played all three. I would bet most of you have played at least two, if not all three. We have, unfortunatly, only so much time to play games, and ony the best game is going to win our support. If that's an MMO, then people spend their money on MMO's. World of Warcraft is currently doing the best of any game, as they've got 9.5 million players coughing up 10 to 15 bucks a month.
The entertainment industry as a whole is having this problem. People only have so much time in a day to spend, and the most entertaining thing wins our attention. TV, movies, games, small pets frolicking in the out of doors, all are in huge competition with each other. WotC is trying to get young players to play, because they've done the research and found out that over time, people buy less and less RPG books and the only way they are going to keep the game alive is to get new people to play.
Second, the old guard ( I mean the guys that are over 25), the ones like you and me, who work ,and thus have funds ,and thus buy the stuff... are pretty much pissed off about WOTC right now. From a disastrous PR campaign to a total bashing of the game history, you name it. Plus we have found out that there are other companies, like Paizo, who really care about their customers and come up with a quality of material that WOTC can only dream of as of recently...
I've already said my piece about the old guard and all our money. It's a bit further up in the thread, before everything got silly. My advice is to go and listen to Ryan Dancey's interview on the FearTheBoot podcast. It's quite entertaining, and will give you a very good perspective of the last major edition change.
The marketing campaign is like any marketing camaign. Some of us think it's been a flop and the WotC marketing division is being run by idiots, and everyone is over reacting to their lame attempts to sell the new edition. I'm not sure why anyone is surpised by a fumbled marketing venture.
Have you watched regular television commercials lately? Commercials are idiotic, by and large.
A lot of people have compalined that the marketing insults the old system as flawed and broken, and that we're idots to play it. But that kind of marketing has been succesful lately. Just look at those Mac commercials. As a PC owner, I find them HIGHLY insulting. You'll pull my windows XP out of my cold dead fingers, but I can see the comedy in them. They often make me laugh, but they don't make me want to own a Mac.
How is that highly successful marketing campaign different from the way that WotC has been talking about 3rd edition? A couple jokes about grappling being so confusing that everyone Not a perfect compairison I'll admit, but its a trend in marketing. It's often quite effective.
The actual developers on the other hand are doing the best they can. I firmly beleive that the people working on 4th ed. love the game and want to make it the very best they can. They've been exploring new and old ideas, and have been doing their best to make 4th as good as they can. Maybe they will be succesful, and 4th edition will be a good upgrade to 3rd. Maybe they'll fail and it won't be. Most likely, they will come somewhere in the middle, improving the game but not perfecting it. They have been taking people's criticism as personal attacks, and that's lead to a lot of bad feelings, but to be fair, a lot of the criticsm has been personal attacks on the writers. That's just the way things go when a beloved product is being developed.
Third, the slaughter they are making of established and beloved settings (like the Realms). 99% of the comments I heard from fans have been utterly negative. And I'm not only talking about gamers, I'm talking also about people who just buy the novels and love the Realms for what it is. As well, reinventing the wheel and coming up with the 10000000000th cataclysm is totally boring...
Frankly, when it comes to a setting like the FR or Greyhawk world, they can't win for losing. FR and Greyhawk are beloved by thousands, if not millions of fans. hundreds of novels, games, setting books, and home brew games have been set in these worlds.
Anything they do will make some section of the fans mad. I know some people (ie myself) were serioudly unhappy with the whole Godswar/Cyric nonesense and the affect it had. It doesn't matter what they do. Only by freezing Greyhawk and FR in time and never changing anything would keep everyone happy.
Except that this won't make anyone happy at all. It would mean that WotC would have to stop supporting FR entierly, or just reprint the same books over and over again with only the game mechanics changing.
When it comes to setting, I say don't worry about what happens in the new edition. You can just keep the old setting if you like and ignore the new stuff, and use the new rules if you like them. Settings change, and not always for the better. Otherwise they die, and i don't think you actually want Realms products to stop existing.
Fourth, the marketing disaster of 3.5. Because now that we already lived it once, why would we be so sure that 4.5 is not around the corner anyway?
Oh gods this again...
Look, when 3.5 came out it was simply an update to 3rd editon, not a full new edition. No, seriously, I mean that. All of the 3.0 adventures are still useable in 3.5, seemlessly in fact, to the point that they didn't even bother to reprint the Monster Manual 2 with the new stat block formats. Yes, there were minor rules changes involved in the update. Spells changed the way the worked, and druids had to firgure out their shapeshifting all over again, but that happens all the time during an edition. How many times has polymorph been erratad now?
The actual mechanics of the game remained the same between 3.0 and 3.5 All those 3.0 splat books are still usable. They might need very small tweaks to make a few of the preatige classes work, but the changes really wern't enough to consider them to be different editions. Every one of us has made bigger changes with house rules.
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Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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I'm glad Sebastian is displaying the holiday spirit by freely giving his opinions.
I don't always agree with them, but his opinions are always well thought out.
As for his sarcasm, I think I've laughed out loud 3-4 times reading through this thread.
I just hope 4E is somewhat playable will be something in between the End of The Game and the Savior of the Game.
Happy Holidays to everyone!
I'm glad Sebastian is displaying the holiday spirit by freely giving his opinions.
...
As for his sarcasm, I think I've laughed out loud 3-4 times reading through this thread.
...
Happy Holidays to everyone!
I know! without this thread, my day would have felt much, much longer.
Thank you folks for making me laugh as I sit trapped in the office.
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Yes, I realize that the Paizo 4th edition board has become the leading producer of 4th edition flavored Hateraid.
That is in fact what makes me so mad. Not that D&D is changing and I have no clue if the new editon will be good or not, but that I can't find a rational discussion abouu the topic anywhere around here.
I check these boards from work during dull moments. I can't get to WotC's boards, they're blocked. I want to hear actual news, and have intresting discussion with the people here about the way the game might be changing. That just isn't happening here.
Another poster made this comment recently (check the "am I alone" thread), and I want to repeat what I said there. The only way this place will not be a 4e-hater echo chamber is if people like you take the time to post your thoughts in an intelligent and thoughtful manner (as you did here) without falling into the traps baited with ridiculous assertions/lies about 4e. You aren't going to change the mind of the slavering anti-4e fanatic who didn't want the new edition no matter how it was marketed or what it contained. Don't waste your time even trying.
But, you can engage in an intelligent discussion with a number of people about the changes. They are here, you just need to choose to acknowledge them over the constant noise of "Hasbro hates gamers and made 4e as a personal insult to the entire gaming community." I encourage you to continue posting, continue engaging people who are on the fence, and just ignore the burning flames below.
Perhaps not everyone can comment from such an enlightened position as yours, but please explain how your comments are any less inflammatory just from the "other" side of the fence. You're dangerously close to trolling with this kind of message.
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I have been going to the same game shop since 1976. I even worked there for 6 or 7 years.
The one thing I know to be true is this - D&D players rarely stray from the brand. Oh, they love to gripe about crappy new products but in the end they buy it because no other game is like it. Even when things change in strange ways, like Spelljammer, they stick with it.
I don't see any reason to believe that 4E will flop.
Older players might have more money, but they don't spend enough money on the game to keep D&D alive.
Tell that to my literal Candlekeep of lore I've collected since 1980. I've done my part to try and keep several iterations of D&D alive. It's time to move on. I know they won't miss me. The feeling is mutual.
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I think you are absolutely correct. Also, I don't think WotC is too concerned--they are already advertising Special Editions (leather) of the 4E Core Books.The idiocy in this floors me. Part of the appeal of the 3.5 leather-bound books was that they included the corrected errata discovered over a year of play. There certainly won't be time to include the errata corrections in these.
I just don't get some of the things they're thinking over there.
Oh, I'm willing to bet there'll be a Revised Special Edition or Ultimate Special Edition, or...Penultimate Special Edition (which, as we all know, allows for just one thing better...).