Just wondering....
I imagine they won't be able to say, even if they do have them, but my gut tells me that they don't.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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What difference does it make? this is just a proxy for the real question - will paizo switch to 4e.
I'm going to take a stab in the dark here, but it seems like the decision of which way to go will at least merit a blog post making the announcement rather than a reply buried in the 435th variation of a "will Paizo switch" thread.
Asking "are we there yet" every 5 minutes isn't going to get us there any faster. Paizo will make the announcement when they're good and ready, they're not going to be worn down through constantly pestering them until they give an answer.
What difference does it make? this is just a proxy for the real question - will paizo switch to 4e.
I'm going to take a stab in the dark here, but it seems like the decision of which way to go will at least merit a blog post making the announcement rather than a reply buried in the 435th variation of a "will Paizo switch" thread.
Asking "are we there yet" every 5 minutes isn't going to get us there any faster. Paizo will make the announcement when they're good and ready, they're not going to be worn down through constantly pestering them until they give an answer.
So . . . are we there yet?
What difference does it make? this is just a proxy for the real question - will paizo switch to 4e.
I'm going to take a stab in the dark here, but it seems like the decision of which way to go will at least merit a blog post making the announcement rather than a reply buried in the 435th variation of a "will Paizo switch" thread.
Asking "are we there yet" every 5 minutes isn't going to get us there any faster. Paizo will make the announcement when they're good and ready, they're not going to be worn down through constantly pestering them until they give an answer.
I don't think your assertion that the OP's question is "just a proxy for the real question" is correct. I for one am interested whether WOTC is far along enough in the process to finally get the OGL ball rolling and getting stuff to tier 1 partners irrespective of my (admittedly keen) interest in Paizo's ultimate decision. Nor do I think your implication that the original post constitued "constantly pestering" was warranted or constructive. In fact, I think it was rather rude. I will abstain from further comment in case I have inferred too much...
Edit: Ok, I'm sorry if I came across as rude...if so, I"m sorry. Your post just seemed a little...harsh.
Nothing yet...
Doh! And there is the official word. Thanks for letting us know what is up.
The speed with which Erik Mona responded to this thread, shows how much attention the Paizo crew py to what is going on. Given this, I would agree with Sebastion, when they know, we will know. Everybody should leave them be, and let them build pathfinder
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So . . . are we there yet?What difference does it make? this is just a proxy for the real question - will paizo switch to 4e.
I'm going to take a stab in the dark here, but it seems like the decision of which way to go will at least merit a blog post making the announcement rather than a reply buried in the 435th variation of a "will Paizo switch" thread.
Asking "are we there yet" every 5 minutes isn't going to get us there any faster. Paizo will make the announcement when they're good and ready, they're not going to be worn down through constantly pestering them until they give an answer.
DONT MAKE ME TURN THIS CAR AROUND!!!!! :)
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Paizo will make the announcement when they're good and ready, they're not going to be worn down through constantly pestering them until they give an answer.
Am I the only one that thinks it's funny that the very next post, 20 minutes later, gave a definitive answer to the poster's real question (not Sebastian's jumped-to conclusion)? :)
I was wondering the same thing myself, actually. Interesting to note that they still haven't gotten the info... makes you wonder if WotC actually want anyone else to produce anything for the launch, or if they want it all to themselves. I am guessing the latter, as it seems in their hubris they have made an effort to become "self-sufficient."
Your post just seemed a little...harsh.
A little harsh? Geez, Sebastian, it looks like you are losing your touch. ;)
And just to throw a little something somewhat on topic in the mix -- Are we sure Paizo will even be able to say they have the rules yet? Wouldn't they likely be under some NDA disallowing them from disclosing that they even have the rules? Just a thought. (Although I, too, would love to know how far along we are).
With the way WotC has been handling things regarding 4E, it wouldn't surprise me if the OGL/SRD didn't become available until after 4E has been released. That way, WotC can have a certain exclusivity for the first few months of the new edition while other publishers scramble to decide if they want to support it and, if so, get compatible products on the shelves.
With the way WotC has been handling things regarding 4E, it wouldn't surprise me if the OGL/SRD didn't become available until after 4E has been released. That way, WotC can have a certain exclusivity for the first few months of the new edition while other publishers scramble to decide if they want to support it and, if so, get compatible products on the shelves.
I've got a kinda "not-so-fresh" feeling that you might be correct...
BAD WOTC!
With the way WotC has been handling things regarding 4E, it wouldn't surprise me if the OGL/SRD didn't become available until after 4E has been released. That way, WotC can have a certain exclusivity for the first few months of the new edition while other publishers scramble to decide if they want to support it and, if so, get compatible products on the shelves.
To be fair to WotC, there was no official SRD until several months after the release of 3E. What there was, however, were draft rules that freely given to third parties, with some instruction from WotC on what could and could not used as part of the OGL/D20 STL.
Now, I don't recall how many months prior to the release of 3E that the draft rules were released (I know I first saw 3E drafts around February or March 2000), so it may be that WotC is no more slow in releasing this stuff than they were last time. Even so, the state of the industry is very different this time: there were no companies in 2000 whose business plans depended on the timely release of draft rules as there are now.
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Wouldn't they likely be under some NDA disallowing them from disclosing that they even have the rules?
I would think if it was an NDA issue, Eric would have just remained silent. I see no reason to doubt the sincerity of the response.
My cynical self thinks that WOTC is playing chicken with third parties right now. More likely they just don't have their stuff together yet.
I'm not asking to pester - sorry if it came across that way. It has been about a month since Erik last said that he was getting hints from WotC that the rules would be provided "soon", so I was just curious.
As an aside, it's not just Paizo that's impacted by this - Necromancer Games is affected as well, and I know that Clark (even though they have prepared based on the Star Wars RPG) would like to have everything set to assure that Tegal Manor and Tome of Horrors 4E are up to NG's normal high rules compatibility standards.
Besides...all adventures will now have to be updated with Dragonborn.... ;)
Its odd how different companies are handling the news.
When 4e was announced I prayed that my 2 favorite companies (Goodman and Paizo) wouldnt switch. That way I may loose WotC but Id still get great 3rd edition D&D products from Pathfinder and Dungeon Crawl Classics.
I dont need to tell you all how Paizo is handeling thangs and I applaud them.
Goodman however pretty much announced before Gencon was even over that they will be making 4th edition Dungeon Crawl Classics and stopped writing 3rd edition DDC immediatly. :(
I'm not asking to pester - sorry if it came across that way. It has been about a month since Erik last said that he was getting hints from WotC that the rules would be provided "soon", so I was just curious.
Based on what we've heard (and some have seen) from the first 4E preview book, the impression I'm getting is that the new edition, whatever its ultimate merits or flaws, is still in a serious state of flux rules-wise. I can think of several explanations for why this might be the case, none of them good, but, if I'm right, WotC has good reason to delay giving a draft rules document to third parties.
My gut tells me we won't hear of anyone seeing an actual rules draft until after the new year, but then my gut is often wrong about these things. I also think that this is a non-issue. In the final analysis, nearly all D20 support companies who don't have their own proprietary rules sets will switch to 4E. The only thing the draft rules delay will do is affect the date when such companies formally make the switch and how many missteps they make along the way.
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One of the Paizoites had said that they'll keep telling us whether they have the new rules or not until an NDA says they can't. So, when they clam up on the subject we can assume that they have the rules.
But please don't ask them to tell you anything about them. It wouldn't be fair, and I bet they hate getting questions that they can't answer. I think because they genuinely want to share any 'exciting news' with us, and it hurts when they can't. So, while I'm eager to learn when they have the rules, I'll refrain from asking for their opinion on them, what they like/don't like until they've had a chance to make a decision and are free to share... Which means I'll wait till they start telling me, no matter how much I'd love to know.
But please don't ask them to tell you anything about them. It wouldn't be fair, and I bet they hate getting questions that they can't answer. I think because they genuinely want to share any 'exciting news' with us, and it hurts when they can't. So, while I'm eager to learn when they have the rules, I'll refrain from asking for their opinion on them, what they like/don't like until they've had a chance to make a decision and are free to share... Which means I'll wait till they start telling me, no matter how much I'd love to know.
No, I'm sure they couldn't say anything about the rules once received. That's a given.
Besides, all I really want to know is, are the rules, "cool", "meh", or "suck"? (From Paizo's perspective, of course.) :)
Question: Didn't Paizo/Necro say that the date where they HAD to have something resembling an SRD by Dec 1? If so... we're down to single digits on days. Any thoughts on the future you'd care to share?
Question is - is January good enough for 3rd party publishers or failing that will they suck it up anyway?
Nope. Paizo's already stated (a month ago) that they've passed the deadline for new projects to be ready for print in June. That plus the time necessary to learn the new game system (a few days, at least...) means we can't possibly be seeing Paizo-quality products on the shelves until maybe... September?
Other publishers might have shorter project timelines, or produce smaller projects which can get out sooner, but for Paizo? They'll continue publishing 3.5 for a while.
It does make me wonder what the people at Goodman Games are going to be doing to pay the bills this spring...
Or are they working behind the scenes on their own B Plan?
I remember Clark saying that a number of 3rd party companies got together and started putting together their own plan B a while ago and Necro joined in late. Personally, I'd love to see a joint venture RPG (system is a collaberation between various companies, setting/supplements are all seperate) and leaving WotC behind. Gives the 3rd parties control over their own fates as well as a unified pool of talent that can cater to various niches in this niche industry of ours.
It does make me wonder what the people at Goodman Games are going to be doing to pay the bills this spring...
They've already expanded into adventures for other systems (C&C and I believe OSRIC).
It does make me wonder what the people at Goodman Games are going to be doing to pay the bills this spring...
Yes, jumping on the bandwagon seems a little premature if there's no bandwagon to speak of. Small publishers don't have much cash flow, so I don't know what they'll be doing for the duration.
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I remember Clark saying that a number of 3rd party companies got together and started putting together their own plan B a while ago and Necro joined in late. Personally, I'd love to see a joint venture RPG (system is a collaberation between various companies, setting/supplements are all seperate) and leaving WotC behind. Gives the 3rd parties control over their own fates as well as a unified pool of talent that can cater to various niches in this niche industry of ours.
Paizo + Green Ronin + Necromancer Games + Goodman Games + Mongoose!
The Voltron of RPG games!!
*gonna dream happy dreams*
The thing is, that if Paizo and Goodman BOTH decided not to switch, they could yank away a large portion of the customer base and leave Wizards high and dry.
My problem is that I don't like the fluff for 4e. The system could be marvelous, but let's look at this.
Paladins of any alignment: When donkeys fly! What does the word mean in the dictionary?
Social Combat Rules: You have GOT to be kidding me. I would rather die than utter the words "Roll for Social Initiative." I know in the real world people have become rude and disrespectful, but is it really necessary to have a social combat system?
Orb, Staff and Wand: You've seen what I've said elsewhere, I stand by that statement.
Changing the planar arrangement: Oh, no one uses this, right? Well, obviously, I, and any other right thinking individual should think that slapping James Jacobs in the face is bad. He worked too hard. He had a ton of work invalidated in less than two years. That's just outright slimy, and I'm not just saying that because it's the Paizo boards.
I remember Clark saying that a number of 3rd party companies got together and started putting together their own plan B a while ago and Necro joined in late. Personally, I'd love to see a joint venture RPG (system is a collaberation between various companies, setting/supplements are all seperate) and leaving WotC behind. Gives the 3rd parties control over their own fates as well as a unified pool of talent that can cater to various niches in this niche industry of ours.
I would honestly like to see this too, but what i'm mostly concerned about is that many of these third party companies succeed. I've no real intention to buy 4th edition, I'm deep in the middle of a C&C game, and an Iron Kingdoms game, and none of my players really want to switch to the new edition. I'm going to be switching to a completely different system, probably in Feb just to mix things up a bit.
I want these companies to continue simply for the great products. While Paizo publishing fourth edition material may not be immediately useful to me in my games, the background and flavor of the Pathfinder setting will be. And many of their gaming aides are on my wish list. The same with Green Ronin and Necromancer Games products. While ideally, I'd love to see them all break away from WotC, what I really want is for them to do what's best for them to succeed. If this means switching to 4th Edition, then that's what they should do. However WotC will need to start giving these third party companies what they need to make the switch, and soon.I have no doubt that Paizo will let us know when they have the rules. They probably won't be making a huge announcement, but I can see them telling us on the boards with a simple "We are reviewing the new rules now..." sort of of post, probably in response to a thread like this.
I'm curious as to when they will get the rules, not necessarily because of their decision on whether to switch, I'm already assuming they are, but what their thoughts on it are. If it is favorable, it might be enough to convince me to switch too. If it's lukewarm or unfavorable (the later will probably warrant them not switching) then it will reaffirm my conviction not to switch.