Well many people is voting right now that will support 3.5 at least for the rest of the next year or maybe beyond (I will too). Have you ever think what if Wizards of the Coast says no more to the d20 license? What will happen to our expectations to see more new products upcoming under this license? Will this make us to give up at our efforts to keep alive 3.5 at least for a year or two? This is perturbing to me, but... it can happen! By 2008 WOTC can release the 4th edition and say to publishers everywhere "no more d20 license now we release the new 4dventure license, take it or get out of business" They want stay at business so no publishers will produce 3.5 anymore since $$$$$ are on the new license. No 3.5 products, only 4.0 so players and publishers will not have another choice than ambrace new edition. I think 3.5 will live but only in the same way AD&D did int the "out of print or house rules" status. Any thoughts?
It doesn't expire.
As far as I understand it, you have to separate the d20 licence, which can be revoked, and the OGL, which cannot. SO, we might still see new OGL products, if some company produces them.
Stefan
I don't think many companies want the D20 license anymore. I don't think it exactly means what it was originally intended to mean.
Paizo doesn't even use the d20 license. They just release under the OGL.
I think the d20 license started to lose its luster around the time of the Book of Erotic Fantasy, when WotC started claiming the right to vet all d20-licensed products for "appropriate content."
I think the d20 license started to lose its luster around the time of the Book of Erotic Fantasy, when WotC started claiming the right to vet all d20-licensed products for "appropriate content."
It lost it luster long before then. Plenty of companies put out crappy adventurers, FLGS bought them like hotcakes and couldn't sell them. They assumed that anyone putting out a d20 product would be putting out a quality product, run a company and create a fanbase; they were wrong. Now FLGS owners just want to get away from anything d20.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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It doesn't expire.
I believe you're thinking of the OGL. There are two separate pieces of IP, the game rules, which are under the OGL, and the little d20 trademark in the corner, which is under a separate license. Unlike the OGL, the d20 trademark license is revocable.
As other posters have mentioned, the expiration of the d20 license shouldn't matter too much. Paizo doesn't even use it on their products. The word from WotC is that the 4e OGL will allow publishers to actually mention D&D compatability by name, so that may well replace the license.
There will be no d20 license for 4e. This has been stated and restated by Scott Rouse at WotC. There WILL however be an OGL and therefore presumably also an SRD for the new rules.
the d20 license in addition to access to the d20 logo provided for some benefits (certain allowances for referencing) and conditions (community standards among them, which is why the Book of Erotic Fantasy wasn't released under the license).
- Ashavan
I think the d20 license started to lose its luster around the time of the Book of Erotic Fantasy, when WotC started claiming the right to vet all d20-licensed products for "appropriate content."It lost it luster long before then. Plenty of companies put out crappy adventurers, FLGS bought them like hotcakes and couldn't sell them. They assumed that anyone putting out a d20 product would be putting out a quality product, run a company and create a fanbase; they were wrong. Now FLGS owners just want to get away from anything d20.
I meant to say, lost its luster among publishers. Most of them weren't too keen on the idea of developing a product and putting it out only to have WotC summarily order them to take it off the shelves and pulp all copies.
Another thing I think about this is that as I read somewhere "game rules can't be copyrighted" so why bother in having a license to produce and sell material compatible with any system people want and so keep alive out of print systems.
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OGL is forever, good -- but out of curiosity, why?
What makes the Open Game License "open" IP? Is it a clause in the original contract (or whatever)? This seems impossible. Or is it the type of document, one that is by definition not under IP "authority" or "domain"? I mean, the OGL is more than just "un-ownable" names such as goblin and Asmodeus, right? So, what is the "definition"?
-W. E. Ray
OGL is forever, good -- but out of curiosity, why?
What makes the Open Game License "open" IP? Is it a clause in the original contract (or whatever)? This seems impossible. Or is it the type of document, one that is by definition not under IP "authority" or "domain"? I mean, the OGL is more than just "un-ownable" names such as goblin and Asmodeus, right? So, what is the "definition"?
-W. E. Ray
Section 4 states: Grant and Consideration: In consideration for agreeing to use this License, the Contributors grant You a perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license with the exact terms of this License to Use, the Open Game Content.
Section 8 says: Wizards or its designated Agents may publish updated versions of this License. You may use any authorized version of this License to copy, modify and distribute any Open Game Content originally distributed under any version of this License.
So anything released under any version of the OGL cannot be revoked. Now, Wizards could choose to release 4e under something other than the OGL, but 3e will always be open.
I believe you're thinking of the OGL.
You are correct, sir. I thought about adjusting it afterwards, but I ran out of energy.
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Section 4.
That's IT?!
That seems easy to get around. Couldn't they "retire" that license altogether -- perpetual certainly means perpetual but that's only under that license. If that license expired -- or were revoked for some reason (any reason) -- all of OGL would be gone.
Unless the framework of the Whole OGL says that it can never expire or whatever, it seems that WotC could eliminate OGL. Even if there is such a framework, I'm sure a legal dep't could find a way around it. Or maybe just wait a few years until the "Framework" itself is revised.
Section 4.
That's IT?!
That seems easy to get around. Couldn't they "retire" that license altogether -- perpetual certainly means perpetual but that's only under that license. If that license expired -- or were revoked for some reason (any reason) -- all of OGL would be gone.
Unless the framework of the Whole OGL says that it can never expire or whatever, it seems that WotC could eliminate OGL. Even if there is such a framework, I'm sure a legal dep't could find a way around it. Or maybe just wait a few years until the "Framework" itself is revised.
Well, I guess that WotC could modify the OGL/part 4 and strike out the perpetual clause. This would not have any influence on older products. And as they state themselves (part8), products can be published under the conditions of any version of the OGL, so a game manufacturer could say, hey, I saved last years OGL and continue to publish under that licence. If WotC were to change the thing formerly known as the OGL and close it, and come to the gaming company and issue a "cease and desist", they could just wave the old OGL and hang them by their own hooks. So, even if WotC would try to revoke it, it just won´t work.
Stefan
Section 4.
That's IT?!
i]perpetual[/i] certainly means perpetual but that's only under that license. If that license expired -- or were revoked for some reason (any reason) -- all of OGL would be gone.
There's no end to this license. It's open-ended. Hence the adjective perpetual. ;o) They can't revoke it under any circumstances. Keep cool :)
Bran.
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Another thing I think about this is that as I read somewhere "game rules can't be copyrighted" so why bother in having a license to produce and sell material compatible with any system people want and so keep alive out of print systems.
Actually game rules can be copyrighted it is the idea behind them that cannot be. The specific presentation of rules or any other idea can be copyrighted, just like any other published work. However, the idea behind that presentation is available for all to use. That is part of the Fair Use statute of the copyright laws.
So, I could rewrite the d20 system and present it in a completely different manner and call it something else entirely. Now, that does not mean that WizCo can't sue me. It just means that when it does go to court the lawyers make lots of money and the court becomes the final arbiter if I have sufficiently changed the content that it is not plagiarism.
The OGL allows publishers to make new products without fear of being sued.
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Section 4.
That's IT?!
That seems easy to get around. Couldn't they "retire" that license altogether -- perpetual certainly means perpetual but that's only under that license. If that license expired -- or were revoked for some reason (any reason) -- all of OGL would be gone.
Unless the framework of the Whole OGL says that it can never expire or whatever, it seems that WotC could eliminate OGL. Even if there is such a framework, I'm sure a legal dep't could find a way around it. Or maybe just wait a few years until the "Framework" itself is revised.
Except for an utterly insane amount of precedent, such as Open Source software, Creative Commons media, and other thing published under a similar license. More, the specific wording of the OGL is that even if they wanted to revoke it, they could only refuse to put out any other OGL material. This license is out of their hands; OGL material is effectively public domain, to be used or abused as you see fit.
So there's no need to panic about WotC getting it into their heads that they should butcher all other D20 gaming efforts by yanking the OGL; they're not able to, and if they tried, the people who produced the other licenses I noted above would likely throw a legal fit for trying to undermine their own 'open' licenses as a side effect.