So my question is simple is a creature immune to gaze attacks also immune to petrification?
Constructs and Oozes are immune to petrification?
So my question is simple is a creature immune to gaze attacks also immune to petrification?
Constructs and Oozes are immune to petrification?
No.
A gaze attack is one way to make a petrification attack, but certainly not the only one - consider flesh to stone.
So my question is simple is a creature immune to gaze attacks also immune to petrification?
Constructs and Oozes are immune to petrification?
Only if the petrification is from a gaze attack.
Edit: I think the retriever can petrify with a ray.
bonehead ninja strike again
But Flesh To Stone clearly says that affects creatures made of flesh how can an ooze be affected by that?
But Flesh To Stone clearly says that affects creatures made of flesh how can an ooze be affected by that?
First rule of gaming: never try to apply logic to a game. It's the path to madness. Or hilarity. Or both.
Jokes aside, an ooze IS flesh. It's a bunch of disorganized cells or one really darn big cell. It doesn't have tissue. But it's still solid living matter. That sounds like flesh to me.
Gaze attacks would not work, nor would stone to flesh; the definition of flesh specifically applies to human or animal-kindom tissue. An ooze (which is a kind of gel or mold) is not an animal, nor does it have muscle.
Any other petrifaction effect would work normally on an ooze, however (a gorgon's breath, a retriever's ray, repeated cockatrice bites, etc.).
Stone to flesh wouldn't work, nor would a gaze attack.
Any other petrifaction effect would work normally on an ooze, however (a gorgon's breath, a retriever's ray, repeated cockatrice bites, etc.).
The target line of flesh to stone says one creature, so this is up to the GM. Is an ooze made of flesh? If not, then all oozes should be immune to petrification, yet that's not listed under the ooze type.
Gaze attacks I agree, as the ooze type specifically lists immunity to gaze attacks.
The target line of flesh to stone says one creature, so this is up to the GM. Is an ooze made of flesh? If not, then all oozes should be immune to petrification, yet that's not listed under the ooze type.
Gaze attacks I agree, as the ooze type specifically lists immunity to gaze attacks.
The target line says one creature, you are correct; but that does not mean you could affect a skeleton or a stone golem with this spell.
As for all oozes being immmune to petrifaction, you are not correct. Any number of non-gaze effects exist that might petrify an ooze (gorgon's breath, cockatrice bites, a retriever's ray, etc). Flesh =/= "solid living mass". A tree is a solid, living mass - yet it is not made of flesh. Same goes for a water elemental.
Its body consists primarily of thick, translucent, iridescent slime coating coils of opaque tissue that shift and move, as though
constantly in a state of flux. Beneath its slimy hide, bursts of energy occasionally flash, lighting portions of its form momentarily. Sections of the ooze periodically emit beams of light or crackling energy, while other sections fade into smoke or vanish altogether.
The above is a description of an ooze (one of the many) and i think its not subject to flesh to stone. But there are oozes that are made of flesh (rotten or not) and those are subject.The whole matter is confusing.
The target line of flesh to stone says one creature, so this is up to the GM. Is an ooze made of flesh? If not, then all oozes should be immune to petrification, yet that's not listed under the ooze type.
Gaze attacks I agree, as the ooze type specifically lists immunity to gaze attacks.
The target line says one creature, you are correct; but that does not mean you could affect a skeleton with this spell.
As for all oozes being immmune to petrifaction, you are not correct. Any number of non-gaze effects exist that might petrify an ooze (gorgon's breath, cockatrice bites, a retriever's ray, etc).
Actually, rake, I know that oozes are not immune to petrification; I had enough sense to look it up because I couldn't remember for sure.
As for the skeleton, RAW, it would be immune to flesh to stone because it's made of bone, not flesh. I'm merely asking what is an ooze made of. If it's flesh, then flesh to stone works. If it's not flesh, then they're unaffected. Since all the oozes currently in Pathfinder are blobby types IIRC, they might as well have the blanket immunity if that's the case, though I suppose someone could reinvent the ghaunadar or something like it.
The above is a description of an ooze (one of the many) and i think its not subject to flesh to stone. But there are oozes that are made of flesh (rotten or not) and those are subject.The whole matter is confusing.
It's not confusing. Flesh to stone states that it does not work on creatures who are not made of flesh. Oozes are not made of flesh.
This doesn't make oozes immune to petrifaction, it just means they're immune to the spell flesh to stone.
The end.
I'm merely asking what is an ooze made of. If it's flesh, then flesh to stone works. If it's not flesh, then they're unaffected.
All the Pathfinder oozes so far are described as being made of "slime" or "sludge" in their individual descriptions. Some, like the ochre jelly, even state that they dissolve flesh. By definition, these creatures are decidedly not made of flesh.
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A successful Knowledge (Dungeoneering) roll, and the information your GM provides you will eliminate most of this issue. In my game, an ooze is decidedly not flesh, and thus would be immune to Flesh to Stone. Your GM might view it differently. Like all cases where the RAW are not expressly clear (and even cases where they are), Rule 0 > all.
As for the OP's initial question, Rake listed several other, less ambiguous petrification effects that show that immunity to gaze attacks does not mean immunity to petrification. I would expand on the listed examples only to point out that a blind human may be immune to gaze attacks, but can easily be turned to stone through just as many (or even more) ways as an ooze or construct, so clearly the two two immunities are not linked.
I'm merely asking what is an ooze made of. If it's flesh, then flesh to stone works. If it's not flesh, then they're unaffected.All the Pathfinder oozes so far are described as being made of "slime" or "sludge" in their individual descriptions. Some, like the ochre jelly, even state that they dissolve flesh. By definition, these creatures are decidedly not made of flesh.
Fair enough, that works for me.
Ah, the ability of people to find ambiguity in what would once have been assumed to be perfectly clear text :)
I, personally like it to be simple. Rather than going creature by creature and arguing about whether each individual one is made of flesh, I'd go with the 20 questions rule: animal, mineral, vegetable, rather than the "giant table of arguments" rule :)
ooze: animal - yes
treant: vegetable - no
stone golem: mineral - no
Of course, it's still vague:
skeleton: ???
Thankfully, we're saved, because undead are immune to effects requiring a Fort save.
flesh golem: ???
Thankfully, we're saved again - immune to spells allowing SR.
Creative Director
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The definition of what is "flesh" is certainly loose, but that's mostly because quantifying everything that has flesh and can thus be affected by one of the games HUNDREDS of different effects is a waste of time.
The best solution is to let each GM decide what "flesh" is in this case.
And if you're looking for an "official" answer, then yes, an ooze is living material and thus it counts as flesh. You can petrify an ooze, as long as the effect you're using to petrify it isn't some sort of effect (like a gaze attack or a mind-affecting attack) that the ooze is otherwise immune to. The spell "Flesh to stone" can petrify an ooze, as can a cockatrice attack or a gorgon's breath.